10666 6 kw ? how much does it really cost?

We changed our supply from 3 to 6 kw when we moved in to our current house, three years ago. The whole process was carried out by telephone - apart from the form-filling that followed (very promptly) a couple of weeks later. No one came to the house at all to either inspect or change anything - although, we have one of the grey meters that ENEL control remotely.

There was a small fee to pay at the time, that i cannot remember offhand - but think it may have been a couple of hundred €. As far as the cost is concerned, it will depend on the "plan" you are on. We are on what in the UK used to be called Economy 7 (I haven't been there for a while, so it has probably got a new name by now) - although it is 12 hours cheap rate/12 hours premium rate here.

You really do need to speak to the nice people at ENEL - in fact, you don't have an alternative. Just remember to check the scheme you want to be on (the ENEL website is a great place to start - and it will help your Italian as well).

One last point is that you will need to have an electrician check that your part of the circuit (after the meter) is capable of safely handling the load you are hoping to draw. You may find that you will need to increase the capacity of your fuse box and add another circuit or two to be able to take advantage of the new limit.

we paid about 550 euros, (4 yrs ago) but even with 6kw you cannot use lots of things at the same time. If you have electrical items with heating elements ie washing machine/dishwasher/toaster/kettle and you put them all on at once the electricity will trip. so it can be a bit tricky if you have a lot of people living in the house.
How anybody can survive with 3kws amazes me.

We survive with 3kws fine, dont have a dishwasher, cooker is gas (I can see an electric one would be tricky) but have elec toaster and washing machine, kettle goes on the hob.Gas central heating (but try to avoid using it due to high costs) and a wood burning stufa.
There is usually only the 2 of us so it isnt a problem and we get the discount for being resident, for large families I can see this might not be possible and not for people with holiday lettings, its all the add ons that are the problem and as we try to live simply it is possible to achieve without feeling disadvantaged.
A

[quote=herealready;99097].........How anybody can survive with 3kws amazes me.[/quote]

Very easily - most Italians do!

We have washing machine, electric cooker [gas hob] dishwasher, toaster, microwave, convector heaters [for quick heat on Winter stays] etc - only things we don't have are an electric kettle [use gas hob] and tumble drier [virtually unnecessary]

The only thing you need to do is identify the 'high power' items [cooker, dishwasher, washing machine] and not use two at once - hence the lack of an electric kettle.

For winter 'start-ups' its "only use 2 convectors [each on 1,25kW setting] plus central heating and open log fire until the house is warm enough " and not [as my OH did] also put the oven on to heat some food]

Absolutely no probs with 3kW - I often think it should be mandatory in the UK - help solve the energy crisis

I would add a warning about the use of a microwave oven as well. We fell foul of that one, when combined with a coffee-maker and the washing machine... Be careful of the air-conditioning as well.

Incidentally, we only upgraded because of my hobby - woodwork. The electric plane uses quite a bit of electricity when it starts up.

For every Kw over the 3kw base you pay at a current rate of e1.1859, per month, so for 10kw e11.86 per month as a standing charge, plus the fixed charge of e3.01 pm.
Unit cost as of the last invoice is e0.183310, however many units that you use, plus the imposte as shown as (D) on the bill and of course IVA @10%.
Sorry, cannot quote on the latest upgrade charges as it is too long ago that we changed from 3kw to 15kw.

We decided to have 4.5 kws rather than 6 as we wern't sure that 3 would be enough (although we did survive on 1.5kw for the first 6 months!!) and have found it more than enough.We had 6kw put into the apartments we rent out (they share the supply) & it cost us almost €1000 to have this put in, but I think they also changed our supply to a high tension wire at the same time so perhaps this had a bearing on it

3 months ago we paid 440 euros to upgrade from 3kw to 6kw. This was all done by phone as we already had a modern digital meter in the house ( some walls but no roof / plumbing / windows or wiring capable of handling more than a candle flame).
As has been said, the monthly charge is higher and also the unit cost seems higher.
We have just paid excluding actual usage charge approx 10 euros / month for sept and 10euros for oct.
Per kwh chrg at present is 0.184890/kwh.

steve

To quote the actual figures we are paying at this moment on "Tariffa D3 Bioraria" (September bill):
0,101450 - ore vuote
0,143960 - ore piene
Obviously, all are per kWh.

It really does pay to check the tariff with ENEL - we are on; Uso Domestico Residente - con Tariffa D3 Biorario. Potenza disponible, 6,6 kWh ( contracted at 6kWh)

I hope anyone considering moving to Italy is reading this posting for I tried to explain this to an English girlfriend recently and she was appalled, found the whole caboodle totally incomprehensible, couldn't believe we had such problems. Lives in a far bigger house than we do, extravagent with her lighting, bills approaching 1/2 to 2/3 (on a bad month) of ours and can happily operate dishwasher, microwave, washing machine and 5 b/r house with the lights on simultaneously in the depths of the English countryside without any difficult. Here with even our upgraded to 6, we still have to proceed with caution. And there's no way I'd put the electric oven (which I plan to change to gas, asap) on at the same time as the electric radiator/towel rail in one of the guest bedrooms whilst playing the hi-fi and having the sitting room lights on!
There are many, many wonderful aspects to living in this country. But coping with the utilities is not one of them.
We used to have 3. I couldn't use the oven and overly relied on candles. Your Italian neighbours may be able to. But look out now - go on, look - I bet their house is in darkness.... V

My sister has just returned from our house in Italy - I explained that she couldn't use the oven and the dishwasher at the same time and that the kettle had to go on the gas hob - to quizzical looks...

On her return to the UK she bought a hob kettle and is amazed at the extra room on her worktop!

I now don't put the dishwasher/washing machine/tumble dryer on at the same time in the UK as I have been told that you use much more electricity when they are on at the same time than you do if they are on singly ?

[quote=Jinty;99142].....................I now don't put the dishwasher/washing machine/tumble dryer on at the same time in the UK as I have been told that you use much more electricity when they are on at the same time than you do if they are on singly ?[/quote]

you were told wrong - the total amount used is the same whether they are used singly or together

I bow to your superior knowledge - my (other) sister was told by her electricity company this was the case - no excuses should have checked apologies :(

I have often thought about solar pannels as an alternative but as I start contemplating a life with limitless electricity I pinch myself and wake up;I swiftly put it straight out of my mind because of the cost. Do they really cost a lot???:wideeyed:

Now I'm confused
Nardini how do you get to pay less per kwh
We are on Enel contract tariffa D3 MONORARIA ( not bioraria)
We are paying a set price for all hours in sept of 0.183310 / kwh.
how did you choose bioraria with both tariffs lower ?
Our bill does say something about 3 different time zones for the day
F1 0800-1900 ora di punta
F2 0700-0800 ore intermedie
F3 2300-0700 ore fuori punta
But nothing about how much each F costs.
Can I choose different tariff plans and if so how?
This all relates to washing machine usage and maybe cheaper to use at different times of day.

any pointers please.
Steve

the 3kw limit

i have posted on this before and still find it strange that so many people suffer with this limit...which generally allows you anyway 3.5

now as a family although only three we must be the type of people that are the most inefficient at being energy efficient...

some of the remarks here do not make sense in respect of our usage at all... we run say an electric oven... microwave, three televisions, in fact four as in general the youngest member of the family tends to have both TV and playstation on at the same time...and as many lights as we like... if the washing machine happens to be on at the same time... well its all the same... and lights are just left on in rooms if there or not...

now this would obviously seem to add up to a higher load than our limit and yet nothing blows... it doesn't in the house we live in now and neither of the two houses we owned previously... so what the difference... i know UK electrical goods can cayuse problems... not light using ones but heavy consumption,,,

i should add also that i can restart the cement mixer fully loaded with all this stuff on too.... its not that i count whats on before i do anything its just i take no notice ...so i know these things have been on...

so it seems to me that there have to be other reasons as well .. not just kw supply reasons... i think its important that you make sure all the things that should be on the right circuits are actually on those and protected by the right trip... anyone with fuses still should certainly be thinking of updating there wiring system and protection...

our system and basically also in the last three houses... after updating the electrical systems has always had at least three trips... the lighting circuit one... the normal power plug one... and the electrical equivalent of the cooker one... all these have different ratings and also are supplied with different sized wires...which are load rated as well... so we know our cooker is not on the light circuit...

so rather than jump on the telephone to enel straight away ...maybe check or have checked that your wiring is reasonably up to date and that some DIY previous owner did not add in some extra plugs and used the wrong circuit... and that all your circuits comply... there are many reasons for trips going... the safest thing to do is to have the reason properly checked... because adding KW power will only make things worse... if there is another problem ...apart from costing you money...

could be at the end of it all that enel somehow have been making a mistake with our supply...however three times over is unlikely...

[quote=tinacara;99148]I have often thought about solar pannels as an alternative but as I start contemplating a life with limitless electricity I pinch myself and wake up;I swiftly put it straight out of my mind because of the cost. Do they really cost a lot???:wideeyed:[/quote]

I'm not sure you can get pannels to supply a whole house with electricity or if you can it would be expensive and you would probably need the whole house covered with them.
Aren't they really only to heat water and only fully effective in summer? :veryconfused:

Waits to be told otherwise. :bigergrin:

[quote=Steve, cittadino di Ovada;99155]Now I'm confused
Nardini how do you get to pay less per kwh
We are on Enel contract tariffa D3 MONORARIA ( not bioraria)
We are paying a set price for all hours in sept of 0.183310 / kwh.
how did you choose bioraria with both tariffs lower ?
Our bill does say something about 3 different time zones for the day
F1 0800-1900 ora di punta
F2 0700-0800 ore intermedie
F3 2300-0700 ore fuori punta
But nothing about how much each F costs.
Can I choose different tariff plans and if so how?
This all relates to washing machine usage and maybe cheaper to use at different times of day.

any pointers please.
Steve[/quote]Well Steve, it is the rate that we chose to be on. I have to say that the biorario rate suits us as we are able to go to bed leaving dishwashers, washing machines, etc. working through the night. The rates I quote came straight off our latest bill, by the way, so they are correct as of September. Have a chat with ENEL - and check the D3 rate.

Solar panels are, indeed, a good idea if you are in the sunny south - although, there is no such thing as free, of course (there is another thread on this subject if you are interested).

Adriatica is quite right about the 3.3 kW limit - which we have had up to 3.6 on the odd occasion in the past (push the button a couple of times to see the maximum you have been drawing recently for yourself) before it tripping itself out and giving you a rude message. It is also important to check that it is the ENEL trip that is activating and not your own fuse box - for many people it is your own switch that causes the most problems. Again, get it checked by an electrician - NOT a friend of a bloke you met in a pub/bar/football match once.

IRITALIA: Yes, you can quite easily. Check out the thread I mentioned above. Sorry to suggest a DIY search, but as I'm sure you can manage that without any problem. FV panels (photovoltaic) can be installed up to any limit and aren't all that big. a 3kW installation is good for most people that live in the sun. I mean, they even make it pay up in Germany - but don't ask me how... :bigergrin:

We've got a 6 kW supply, we've never had a problem with the circuit breaker at the meter (the one that would trip if we exceeded the ENEL limit), and we've never been careful about what's running when we switch on the oven or whatever.

We're in a rural location and at the end of what looks to me to be a pretty dodgy power line, so the lights do flicker when our neighbour fires up his arc welder or another of his pieces of heavy electrical equipment. But I think that sort of thing is common in rural properties in Britain.

We have occasionally had problems with the RCD's (the super-sensitive circuit breakers that would shut off the power before you even felt a shock if you were to grab a live wire) in the house's circuit breaker box tripping. These problems have almost always been traced back to a problem with a piece of electrical equipment not being correctly grounded or being faulty in some other way.

It is interesting looking at the power consumption of appliances in Britain and Italy. Direct comparison is made a bit difficult these days due to manufacturers using the Noddy Guide to Energy Efficiency Letters rather than simply stating the actual power consumption in kilowatts which anyone with a bit of sense can easily understand, I just managed to look at the specs of a few randomly chosen built-in ovens (the Italian ovens from the Mediaworld site, the UK ones off the Electrolux site).

The Italian ovens are rated at between 0.8 kW and 1.1 kW. The British ovens typically consume 5 kW.

Obviously, if you have a posh electric oven which you've brought over from Blighty, it's going to heat up a lot faster than it's smaller, lower-rated Italian cousin and it will regulate the heat better if you're constantly opening and closing the door. But if you have a normal 3 kW power supply and switch on the oven, the ENEL meter circuit breakers will immediately trip. Even if you upgrade the power supply to 6 kW – which I believe is the normal maximum for domestic use – you're not going to be able to run much else besides the oven.

Similarly, our lovely Dualit toaster is rated at 1,500 Watts, while the funny little Philips model I bought in Italy consumes less than half that at 700 Watts.

Our Philips kettle (actually bought in Holland) is rated at 1,500 Watts, while it's normal for modern "rapid boil" kettles in the UK to consume 3,000 Watts.

However, a randomly chosen UK Electrolux dishwasher consumes a maximum of about 2.0 kW while the Miele and Ariston in our kitchens here have power ratings of 2.8 kW and 2.0 kW respectively, so not much difference there.

I don't know how other electrical appliances compare between the two countries, but I suspect that hairdryers and fridges use roughly the same amounts.
[quote=tinacara;99148]I have often thought about solar pannels as an alternative but as I start contemplating a life with limitless electricity I pinch myself and wake up;I swiftly put it straight out of my mind because of the cost. Do they really cost a lot???:wideeyed:[/quote]
Yes, photovoltaic panels are expensive. As a rough indication of just how expensive, a [URL="http://www.obi-italia.it/it/ideenwelt/technik/Energia_solare/_VOLfotovoltaico.pdf"]leaflet I picked up in OBI[/URL] recently gives an installed price for a 3 kW installation of €17,340.

An Italian friend in the village here bought a system of about that size a couple of years ago and he's convinced it was a brilliant idea since the return on what he spent is so far much better than what he would have got if he'd left the money in a bank.

I'm not clear on what incentives there currently are to encourage people to install photovoltaic systems on their roofs, but it was the case a few months back that you could get a bank loan for the installation which would be repaid by the payments you received from ENEL for the excess electricity the panels produced. The amount you receive from ENEL varies according to the size of the photovoltaic installation and where exactly it is (above the roof tiles, level with the roof tiles or distant from the house), but it's basically roughly twice what consumers pay for electricity. (See the OBI leaflet I linked to above for more info.)

Our friend says that the payments he received from ENEL this year were enough to pay for their annual firewood delivery, so what with that and their solar water heating system, their electricity and house and domestic hot water heating has essentially cost them nothing at all this year. There was, obviously, a very large bill to pay when the panels were installed, but they're assuming that they now will not have to worry about meeting domestic utility bills for the rest of their lives.

There are companies here who will come out and give you a free assessment and estimate of how much a photovoltaic system would cost. According to a leaflet I picked up yesterday, [URL="http://www.gruppoferri.com/?pageId=1375&areacons=8"]Ferri Elettroforniture[/URL], is one such firm. I believe that you can also buy photovoltaic systems direct from ENEL and I'm certain that there will be many small local firms offering the same service. I understand that (assuming the programme still is in operation following the recent change of government) some will even deal with the bank loan side of things if you should decide to take this up.

Al

Looks like some of Enels rates have changed again from 1st Oct for the off peak usage for non resident and resident over 3Kw. Compared to the single rate then I would not think the saving is that much.
Tarriffs Off Peak and normal links below:

[url=http://www.enel.it/sportello_online/elettricita/tariffeelettriche/biorarie/oltre_3kW/]Enel SpA - Per contratti oltre 3 kW e Non Residenti fino a 3 kW[/url]
[url=http://www.enel.it/sportello_online/elettricita/tariffeelettriche/biorarie/3kW/]Enel SpA - Per contratti fino a 3 kW Residenti[/url]
[url=http://www.enel.it/sportello_online/elettricita/tariffeelettriche/domestiche_monoorarie/D3/]Enel SpA - Tariffa D3[/url]

Thanks Geotherm for the "good" news!:eeeek:

So, for us (over 6 kW), the price for a "bioraria" supply will now be:
pieno - 0,192530
vuote - 0,150940

If you are on a supply of between 2,6 and 3.5 kW, you will pay:
pieno - 0,268610
vuote - 0,227020

It makes photovoltaic even more interesting, eh? :winki:

Might make the Edison offer more attractive, that is if I can find the rates!!!!

[quote=adriatica;99156]we run say an electric oven... microwave, three televisions, in fact four as in general the youngest member of the family tends to have both TV and playstation on at the same time...and as many lights as we like... if the washing machine happens to be on at the same time... well its all the same... and lights are just left on in rooms if there or not...

now this would obviously seem to add up to a higher load than our limit and yet nothing blows... it doesn't in the house we live in now and neither of the two houses we owned previously... so what the difference... i know UK electrical goods can cayuse problems... not light using ones but heavy consumption,,, .[/quote]

I have no doubt what you're saying is correct but I think you're very fortunate. We have exclusively Italian purchased appliances. We had the property re-wired when we had some renovations done last year. But when our regular electrician noticed the other day that my husband had bought a small electric radiator for his studio (no gas connection here and he didn't want calor), he warned him to be careful adding that we were already at the limit of what we could run with 6.
Interestingly, I remember when I rang Enel to make the upgrade (and it was terribly easy, done in a few minutes over the phone), I was asked how many we were in the family. We're only two but fearing in the light of this they might not agree to our request, added a few more for luck!

It is all a bit vague and imprecise really, isn't it. I suspect that your first bill would be the first time that you get to see the real situation, as well. I just hope the minimum contract time isn't too long...

Depends on how much the current supply line can take, so they may have to put a heavier cable in. You could only ask Enel and see. Its is only about another Euro+ per extra Kw supplied on the standing charge as the price per unit consumed stays the same.

My thoughts entirely Nardini. If they would give further information, then it might be worth the change. No detail on what they will charge after the Dec 2008 sign up, no basic charges, no unit charge, so what do you look at, promotion and cheap rates until after the sign up, then costings going up, just as they have got you as a customer.
Would rather they came clean with their contract costs, than all this hype about saving 20% but only if you sign up before the end of the year.
Have just called Edison for more answers, but have had to put the questions in an email. Will update if I do get an answer, or whether I have to chase them again!!!!!!

[quote=Mick Chick;99231]I up graded to 6kw last year but i am still concerned that this will let me down when I least expect it, christmas dinner springs to mind. Does anyone know if it is possible to up grade further?[/quote]There are many possible answers - none that involve ENEL. You should always get your electricity installation looked at by a properly qualified electrician before making any changes as the Italian way of wiring is not always the same as the UK way (in fact, never!). It may very well be that your "tails" are not up to the job of carrying a higher load - but ENEL would be able to tell you that immediately (they are surprisingly well informed, usually). The worry would be what has been done in your own home with the installation after the fuse box. Get it checked properly - you will find it won't be expensive (unless you find a robber/cowboy) and you will have the opportunity to meet the electrician and weigh him up for yourself should you ever need some real work done.

Having said all that, I have had no problem with our 6kW supply at all - and I cook for 18 people at Christmas - with an electric oven, so...

[quote=Mick Chick;99231]I up graded to 6kw last year but i am still concerned that this will let me down when I least expect it, christmas dinner springs to mind. Does anyone know if it is possible to up grade further?[/quote]

Why not just get a cheap camping stove to supplement the cooker on the odd occasion that you might need to 'give it some wellie'? - they aren't that expensive;-

[url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Camping-Cooker-Cartridges-Refills/dp/B000RHV3MU]Amazon.co.uk: Portable Camping Gas Cooker Stove + 2 Free Gas Cartridges Refills: Garden & Outdoors[/url]

and a couple serve as a great standby when the power is off.

.

Copy of the Edison Press Release in English.

One year since deregulation, Edison enters the residential market bringing the benefits of competition to all Italians with an unparalleled sales package.
Signing up for the EdisonCasa sales package is easy, instantaneous and with no activation fee. New TV, print, radio and Web advertising campaign starts on September 28. The Italian athletes Schwazer, Galtarossa and Piccinini are EdisonCasa’s first customers.

Milan, September 25, 2008 – Edison unveiled today its electric power sales package for the residential market. Starting today, Italian families will be able to switch suppliers and sign the new EdisonCasa contract that provides a 20% discount on the cost of electric power (which on average is equal to 65% of the total bill). It is a sales package that will revolutionize the market because it delivers unparalleled savings and an immediate and guaranteed benefit for consumers. It’s a promotional offer which customers can sign up until December 31st 2008.

Edison’s entry into the residential market gives more concrete implementation to the total deregulation of the electric power market, launched on July 1, 2007. In the year that passed since the start of deregulation, only a few households availed themselves of the option to switch suppliers in this new segment that accounts for 25% of the overall market. The consensus estimate is of a switching rate of 5%-6%, for a total of 1.5 million households. Many of these households have exited the captive market but stayed with the same supplier, albeit on a free market basis. Starting today, Edison, which already accounts for more than 10% of the market for medium-size and large businesses, becomes a viable alternative for consumers. To sign up for the EdisonCasa sales package, which is without comparison among those offered by other operators, no activation fee or deposit is required and no alterations to the meter or electrical system are needed. In addition, switching to Edison is extremely simple and instantaneous: the contract can be activated online ([url=http://www.edisoncasa.it]Edison Casa ? Energia per la Casa Conveniente![/url]), through the call center (800-141414) or customers can ask that an acceptance form be mailed to their residence. There is no cost for consumers and all customers who are billed at two different rates for different times of day can keep this option and enjoy the 20% discount for both rates. Edison is the first major operator in its industry to offer 24/7 customer assistance and the first to receive ISO9001 quality certification for its electric power and natural gas distribution operations.

“Edison has chosen to take up the challenge of complete deregulation of the electric power market and intends to make the benefits of competition available to every household,” said Umberto Quadrino, Edison’s Chief Executive Officer. “After completing one of the most ambitious investment programs in the European electric power generation industry and building such new natural gas infrastructures as the Rovigo regasification terminal, Edison is now ready to channel its growing availability of resources toward new markets. Edison’s entry into the residential market will enable us to diversify our customer base and will help stabilize the Company’s profitability over the intermediate term.”

“The significant savings provided by this sales package,” added Alessandro Zunino, Edison’s Sales and Marketing Manager, “is an unequivocal indication of Edison’s commitment to support Italian families. A drastic cut to the electric bill is our contribution to consumers, who have to deal every day with rising cost-of-living expenses. But it is also just a first step. We will continue to surprise with new sales packages and services designed to lower energy costs for families. During the current year, we worked very hard to understand what Italians wanted from us, the industry operators. This sales package is a direct result of what we learned from consumers.”

Three Italian athletes — Alex Schwazer, gold medalist in Beijing for the 50 Km Walk, Rossano Galtarossa, silver medalist for Rowing, and Francesca Piccinini from the Italian Women’s Volleyball Team - signed up for this service today, becoming the first customers to choose EdisonCasa. The introduction of the new sales package will be supported by a new communication campaign that will launch on September 28. Specifically, the advertising effort will include TV spots, print advertisements in newspapers and magazines, radio and Web spots and dynamic billboards on buses, trams and taxi. In addition, targeted guerilla marketing initiatives will be staged in the main Italian cities. To underscore the extraordinary nature of this sales package, the advertisements will carry the tag line “Cambia l’energia” (Change the energy), which is the same as the one used for the campaign that ran during the Olympics and included testimonials from several champions of the Italian Olympic Team. The creative concept of the new campaign is based on the idea that the first to understand the revolutionary essence of the sales package are the top experts in the business: home appliances. A startling, ironic spot, in true Edison style, that expresses fully the brand’s positive energy. The commercials include two 30” spots shot by the Joachim&Espen Roenberg Norwegian film team.

Edison’s Press Office: Tel. +39 02 62227331, [email]ufficiostampa@edison.it[/email]

So who's going to be the first to sign up with Edison then?
The only problem is that if someone does, by the time they get their first bill and post what a wonderful scheme it is the offer will be over. :bigergrin:

Well, if i get a reply to the email I sent them, which included asking what the rates may be after the offer ends, then I may consider it. At least theres a few months left to decide.......... but then Enel may come up with a better offer to save their customers!!!

[quote=tinacara;99148]I have often thought about solar pannels as an alternative but as I start contemplating a life with limitless electricity I pinch myself and wake up;I swiftly put it straight out of my mind because of the cost. Do they really cost a lot???:wideeyed:[/quote]

If you are working in Italy and paying income tax, there is a scheme where, over a period of time, you can get 50% ? back from the state. Italians we know have done this for their household hot water. A Ragioniere will have the details.

[quote=Geotherm;99230]Might make the Edison offer more attractive, that is if I can find the rates!!!![/quote]
Here are the rates; please tell if they are convenient I don't understand!! Maths wasn't my best subject!:no:

[url]http://www.edisoncasa.it/assets/pdf/scheda-comparativa-aeeg-edisoncasa.pdf[/url]

[quote=Violetta;99357]I have no doubt what you're saying is correct but I think you're very fortunate. We have exclusively Italian purchased appliances. We had the property re-wired when we had some renovations done last year. But when our regular electrician noticed the other day that my husband had bought a small electric radiator for his studio (no gas connection here and he didn't want calor), he warned him to be careful adding that we were already at the limit of what we could run with 6.
Interestingly, I remember when I rang Enel to make the upgrade (and it was terribly easy, done in a few minutes over the phone), I was asked how many we were in the family. We're only two but fearing in the light of this they might not agree to our request, added a few more for luck![/quote]
I don't think it matters how many are in the family. There are only 2 of us and no problem for 15 kw supply. Just expect to pay a higher standing charge per Kw supplied.

Is anyone still wrestling with that Edison offer please? Perhaps someone who reads Italian can confirm that the webpage making the offer says that they will take 20% off ENEL prices....??? which for isn't enough information to make me change supplier.

I have this handicap (the imperative that if it ain't broke, don't fix it) which has blighted my life!

Your handily linked pdf only considers supplies up to 4.5kW, (though with higher usages of kWh per annum, implied by full time use of a house, Edison seems to get 'cheaper'). But it doesn't seem to consider the 'standing charges' (which won't differ between Edison and Enel, at a guess).

IF you are a heavy user of electricity, and IF you have a contract which allows you to draw more than 3kW (and IF you draw it, annualised - not for three months of the year when you are in residence) Edison looks favourable. Otherwise, I am less than convinced. Their selling point seems to me to be reducing the differential between 'us thrifties' who manage with less than 2000kWh per year and 'them spendthrifts' who haven't located the light switches!

I really don't think this sort of 'competition' (ROFL) helps the innocent consumer at all. Turning off the corridor lights is much simpler....

[quote=Noble;99407]Is anyone still wrestling with that Edison offer please? Perhaps someone who reads Italian can confirm that the webpage making the offer says that they will take 20% off ENEL prices....??? which for isn't enough information to make me change supplier.[/quote]
Even from the data shown on their link, it seems the best you can get is 16% saving. Wonder where the other 4% comes from!!!

[quote=tinacara;99266]Here are the rates; please tell if they are convenient I don't understand!! Maths wasn't my best subject!:no:

[url]http://www.edisoncasa.it/assets/pdf/scheda-comparativa-aeeg-edisoncasa.pdf[/url][/quote]
Thanks Tinacara, but had already seen that projection. What I wanted to know is how much they charge per Kw of use and also standing charges etc. They only show a supply of 4.5 Kw and up to 7500kw use per year, so obviously with 15Kw as the base supply here and use of circa 11000kw, then its easier for me to work out what I am likely to be paying. I can usually work the Enel bill out to within a few euros before it arrives, as at least they openly show their charges.

My wife and I are slowly working up our plans for our own retirement place at the moment, so have been checking out the situation regarding solar energy for the time when our pensions will struggle to buy a kilo of bread and a packet of tomato seeds.

Photovoltaic panels are, indeed, a very sensible proposition if you are living in the sunny south of Italy (less so up here in the north, of course). Where it makes the most sense is with what is called a "grid connect" system - that is, one that is connected to the national grid and you sell the electricity so produced to your electricity supply company - here, being ENEL.

Basically, a 3kW installation will cost you something in the order of €17-18,000 - not a cheap proposition, for sure. With a grid connect system you then sell ALL of the electricity that is produced by your panels at a rate set by ENEL, based on a sliding scale downward. This enables the sensible payment of what is in effect a grant for the installation, without allowing the usual "fiddles" to prematurely evacuate the grant pool to the poltrone crowd.

At the moment, you will receive €0,49 per unit from ENEL, if you have a 3kW or less, permanent installation. Yes, it is much more than you will be paying for the electricity you use. You get this for, I believe, 10 years - after which you will be on a fairly even buy/sell contract (unless you upgrade your installation or the rules change).

It is also worth pointing out that with the Spanish government putting a stop to it's own grant scheme earlier this year, it will mean that the panel manufacturers will soon be falling over themselves to sell you their panels at better prices, if not already.

Anyway, the ENEL story can be found here: [url=http://www.enel.it/enelsi/offerta/casa_risp_energetico/imp_fotovoltaici/Index.aspx]Enel.si Srl - Impianti fotovoltaici[/url]

If you live here, it is worth looking at the possibilities, I think.

I did not realise how much interest this thread would evoke , however I have noticed that tumble dryer/ washing machines combined have very high consumption indeed so someone must have 6kw out there and I think that the point that your circuit breakers may have to be upgraded to cope with higher wattage appliances is a very good one, as for the exact cost of conversion I am still not much the wiser. Ta to everyone.

I up graded to 6kw last year but i am still concerned that this will let me down when I least expect it, christmas dinner springs to mind. Does anyone know if it is possible to up grade further?