10736 Employment- Do Your Research Before Moving to Italy

Aren't there places where you can be retrained with a useful trade that will benefit society? :laughs:

From another post it seems luciam became a mother...will that do?

[quote=Steve Graham;100063]Aren't there places where you can be retrained with a useful trade that will benefit society? :laughs:[/quote]
Steve, I know the marketing stereotype you're lampooning, and there is some truth in it - but it's a shame to go for a cheap gag at the expense of someone who is long term unemployed despite good qualifications/experience, but nonetheless still trying to be helpful to others.

Thank you luciam - not an easy post to have written I'm sure, and hopefully will make some people stop and think.

ps - I'm not in marketing, nor do I have an MBA, just thought that the original post deserved better.

Thank You Lucia,
As someone new to this forum - who intends to move to Italy I am very grateful for your posting.
Please don't let what appears to be either sarcasm or an attempt at humour put you off posting again. I also like your blog very much!

Lets give the benefit of the doubt here - perhaps Steve mistakenly hit the "laugh" icon instead of the "smile" icon. Lord knows I've done it enough times. :eeeek:

It is funny how touchy everyone is on this subject of finding fault with Italy. You can say what you like about your country of origin, but to say the same thing about Italy:no:

I think this may need further research.:veryconfused:

Mark

Mark, it is a well-known fact that immigrants always are the greatest patriots when it comes to defending the honour of their adopted country. Unless they go back "home", of course. Then, they become their ex-adopted nations fiercest attacker.

Julian - TBH the icon chosen didn't even register with me - smile, laugh ... it makes no real difference. Apply the "would I make that comment to a [B][I]strangers[/I][/B] face" test, and the outcome is the same regardless of your expression when you say it.

Mark - I assume I'm one of the ones you feel is being "touchy". I'm not at all touchy about italy or finding fault with it. I'm not even an ex-pat. I'm touchy about a newbie here trying to post something of value to others, which required her to admit to her own difficult circumstances - only to be made the butt of a joke. I'd feel pretty p!ssed off if that happened to me, wouldn't you?

Steve strikes me as a pretty decent bloke in general based on his other posts & I'm sure the comment was meant as light relief only ... I just wanted to show a bit of solidarity with Lucia as, if the thread had been left to rest at steve's post, she'd have (rightly) felt pretty cr@ppy?

Hi Luciam

Thank you for your post it brought a good deal of honest reflection to a recently heated site!
I am sorry Arezzo, where I live, was not able to support you but like many if not all places in Italy it is not always a question of 'what you know or what qualifications you have' more important is the 'who you know'.

A couple of years ago I taught the 'English' unit of a EU funded course run by the local Chamber of Commerce for people in Arezzo looking to do marketing. I was amazed at the number of people that were looking for work and they all reiterated the above 'its not what, but who'. The ages ranged from 19 to 50, around 20 people in all. Also for those looking to come to Italy to teach English, think very very carefully! It would be almost impossible to live on the salary this would bring. I was paid (with TEFL, 15 years ESOL experience, MA etc.) 11 euros an hour per contact time. Contact time with students only represents a half of the time on course when you count in preparation, research and marking. At first I was offered 8 euros!!
The school then relented and paid me as an experienced teacher!! After 20 years I thought I was!

My only experience of teaching here in Italy but I really enjoyed it, got to know some lovely people and practise my Italian! However, I felt after paying for car parking etc. I would not repeat the exercise.

Five years here now and with each year we are getting more and more support and affection from our neighbours and all the various services - garages, plumbers, etc. We could have done with more support at the beginning but that's Italy you have to live here and earn their respect! The same applies worldwide, my mother having lived in Suffolk for 60 years was still the london girl!!

I think it is very worthwhile pointing out that working in Italy, although not impossible, can be very difficult.

I was surprised when I first came out here looking for a house, that almost without exception the estate agent or scout would elicit my qualifications and erstwhile profession, then tell me that there were loads of jobs in that field.

One whom I told I was a teacher said there were schools hunting for teachers with English as a mother tongue (I have yet to find any). Another whom I told I was a graphic designer told me he needed a designer to help with a new project he was launching and that work would be easy to find (the project was either fictitious or he found it too difficult to get off the ground, because it never happened).

Fortunately I knew Italy, as my mother was Italian and I have lots of family here so I was not taken in by all the hype and also I am in a position where I do not need to work. But I did think of how many people listening to such patter believed it and bought houses, thinking they would be able to find jobs easily.

In my experience earning a living is probably the most difficult part of coming to live in Italy and the post by Luciam is valuable in it’s insight.

As said by lots of people before it is not impossible but you do need to do a lot of research and make sure you are able to survive whilst the search for a job goes on.

[quote=pigro;100068]Steve, I know the marketing stereotype you're lampooning, and there is some truth in it - but it's a shame to go for a cheap gag at the expense of someone who is long term unemployed despite good qualifications/experience, but nonetheless still trying to be helpful to others.
[/quote]You're quite right, it was a cheap joke. Sorry if I offended.

Thanks, luciam. Luckily I came with low expectations myself and no rustico to soak up funds!

On the topic of teaching Aretina has a lot more experience than me so what I write here is for others!

I'll take a break from lesson prep to say that, ironically, if you have some resources it's easier to get a better rate at teaching because you can hold out for it! So, for example, those EU funded courses can actually afford to pay a decent rate, and if they don't, it's because they're raking off a bigger proportion of the funds for themselves. If you are in a position to, ask for a higher rate: you'll lose some and gain others (and perhaps a leeetle more free time!).
I recently picked up some work in scuole elementare - through contacts, as ever - and I queried the suggested rate and got an additional €7 an hour. Only 20 a week but at the margin it all helps. I've just put in a preventivo for courses in a local library and if I get them it'll be gross (lordo) a good multiplier of €11.:bigergrin: It helps though to be in the North.

As I've said elsewhere, I don't want too much work as I want to go skiing - and particularly for the primary school kids I find lesson preparation both worrying and time-consuming.

No Pigro, my post was not aimed at you, not even at this thread really. I was just making a general comment on what was going on with the forum at the moment.

But hang on.. You must have been a bit touchy or you would not have replied ;-)

Mark

[quote=Markcarter;100107]No Pigro, my post was not aimed at you, not even at this thread really. I was just making a general comment on what was going on with the forum at the moment. [/quote] ah - indeed. Thanks for clarifying.

[quote=Markcarter;100107]But hang on.. You must have been a bit touchy or you would not have replied[/quote] Ahem ... I think "touché" is the word (pun intended) :-)

To buy a house over here can be a nightmare, trying to start work can be a pain in the neck. To do both at the same time? I know it is possible, as I did do it, but looking back now I don’t know how I managed to keep sane(Every one hears the voices, right?)

If you try you are a hero, win or lose.

Just because you managed to get your whatever ok, does not mean that it was the same for every one. When I went to get residency I got accused of being East European with a forged passport(which I thought made me a bit more exotic). Like wise I do believe it can be easier.

And has anyone mentioned the regional differences? I some times think people are speaking about another country and not somewhere 200 kilometers away.

Mark

[SIZE="1"]Small print. This post is directed at no one in particular and the views are just person observations[/SIZE]

Hello everyone and thank you thank you for welcoming me into your forum. First of all I was not offended by the post of Stephen Graham. I was not surprised by all the responses to this heated topic. I can only talk about my experiences. Living in Chiusi I could most probably find work in Arezzo BUT I would only at best break even at the end of the month (paying sitter, daycare, train travel,etc). I have opted for now to try to find work that I can do from home (mostly writing) that will give me the opportunity to also take care of my children in the afternoon. This is a complicated issue having to do with not finding work in Italy and also the struggle for moms deciding whether or not to go back to work full time. In any case I welcome all of you to check out my blog [url=http://www.living-italy.blogspot.com]Living Italy[/url] and I hope you enjoy it! Again good luck.Luciam

Once you are a Mother with a small child...children, no matter what European country you are living in, unless you already had a highly paid professional career, you will not break even, when working and paying for childcare. The only difference according to the English mother's with young Children here in Umbria, is that the Childcare facilities are a trillion times better than in the UK.

[quote=Noble;100177].......... is that the Childcare facilities are a trillion times better than in the UK.[/quote]

Really? - I know this article is from 2006, but...

. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4739154.stm]BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Italian women shun 'mamma' role[/url]

would tend to infer that things are not necessarily that great [but I don't speak from personal experience of the Italian system]

Two of the telling quotes in the piece are;-

"The country spends just 3.8% of its GDP on child-related social spending compared with an EU average of around 8%."

and

"Italy still trails behind most of Europe in providing affordable child care and family benefits".

Perhaps you are lucky in your area.

.

I almost feel that despite the statistics Alan, the BBC story could apply to Childcare difficulties/facilities in England. The majority of English mothers with young children find paying for childcare, expensive and those that have children at school often work for "nothing" during the school holidays.
My reference point is English Mothers with young children in Italy and comparing leaving their children (under 7) in an Italian Nursery in rural Umbria. They say the staff are flexible. No notice, days in advance, has to be given should a child want to stay for lunch or for longer in the day etc. I agree the experience is possibly quite different in Italian cities.

I have never done child care in the USA but know it is very very expensive. I so far am very content with the little experience I have had here in our small town. Although it is expensive for Italy standards, it is far more cheaper than the USA. Plus they get quality meals and pay very little extra if you decide to leave the children longer. Thanks for your reply and I agree that for a mom or dad the dilemma is the same no matter where you are.[url=http://www.living-italy.blogspot.com]Living Italy[/url]