In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Very good explanation of an Inverter system Allan. We also supply those type of units and as you say they are energy efficient.
With regards to ground loop systems, these can also be used to cool a house in what is known as passive mode, either through fan coils in the room, or through the underfloor heating system. There are also fully reversible pumps available, which are not realy recommended as you do need to have some form of dehumidification system operating at the same time.
I have not heard of any problems with inverter systems freezing and as the units we deal with are made in Sweden then they have been tested in harsher conditions than those normally encountered in Italy.
Attached is a link to the Nordic Inverter which gives a lot more specifics.
[url=http://en.ivt.se/products.asp?lngID=637&lngLangID=1]Technical data Nordic Inverter - IVT Heat Pumps - heat pump air heat pump nordic inverter bedrock heat hot water heater enviroment energy savings etc.[/url]
[url=http://en.ivt.se/products.asp?lngID=475&lngLangID=1&framework=]IVT Nordic Inverter - IVT Heat Pumps - heat pump air heat pump nordic inverter bedrock heat hot water heater enviroment energy savings etc.[/url]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Nice post Allan. Inverters compressors have been introduced by the japanese as an energy efficient air conditioning system quite a number of years back. Looking at the industry, there has been a new technologies which is making some noise in the air conditioning market. Its called Digital Scroll Compressor which you may find also interesting.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I too was fascinated by the explanation and it wasn't "above my head" but re your comment Alan...There can’t be too many places in Italy that get hot enough in summer to really need air-conditioning and also that cold in the winter, so I don’t imagine it will be much of an issue for anyone here.
I know a few people living in Condominiums on the outskirts of Perugia who would not agree with this comment. So I wonder if in newly built condominiums the system you describe is now being installed as standard?
Certainly in the tiny apartment in an historic building that we rented in Venice last Jan. such a system was being used and very cosy it was too!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
At between 1 and 2 kW to run, I guess it would be feasible to run a modern unit from solar panels (although expensive to buy). Is that something that is done?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Steve Graham;100222]At between 1 and 2 kW to run, I guess it would be feasible to run a modern unit from solar panels (although expensive to buy). Is that something that is done?[/quote]
You might have a problem on hot sticky nights
.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Steve Graham;100222]At between 1 and 2 kW to run, I guess it would be feasible to run a modern unit from solar panels (although expensive to buy). Is that something that is done?[/quote]
Remember Steve that it is not going to be running continuously, once it gets to the set temperature it will switch off and restart as and when needed.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Alan this information was really useful and good timing for me as I was in the process of researching air conditioning systems within Italy.
I was wondering if you had any further information....
My issue is what size multi split system to install; I have a 200sq/m property (2 story ea 100sq/m) I'm thinking I need four wall mounted units but do not understand what size KW capacity I need.
Plus do you have any idea on costs?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jonathan
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=jwareham;108957]My issue is what size multi split system to install; I have a 200sq/m property (2 story ea 100sq/m) I'm thinking I need four wall mounted units but do not understand what size KW capacity I need.
Plus do you have any idea on costs?[/quote]
As you probably realised from my first post, I'm not an air conditioning engineer, but apparently there are very complicated formulas which are used by the professionals to make sure that a given space has sufficient air conditioning, but not too much. The former is unpleasant for the occupants, but the latter is also bad since an over-sized air conditioning plant means it never works at peak efficiency.
While I'm not able to give you a definite answer to your question on the air conditioning capacity you need, there is an on-line calculator [URL="http://www.watkinshire.co.uk/air-conditioning-hire/aircon-calculator.php"]here[/URL] which should be of help to your. Possibly the first thing you'll note is that the calculation is based on volume, not area, which makes perfect sense if you think about it. By the way, I would suggest that you check your house floor area measurements to make sure they're the [I]real[/I] quantities, not the Italian-style ones which are based on the external footprint of the house. All you care about in this context is the amount of air on the inside of the house which you need to cool.
The calculator also factors in other things, such as number of people and heat-producing appliances present and the sort of space it is. Unfortunately, the calculator assumes you'll be wanting to hire an air conditioner for a commercial space, so the options do not quite match up with your situation. However, the bottom line should give you some idea of the sort of capacity you're looking for.
Just to see what the results would be, I entered a room size of 10 x 20 x 3 metres and said it was an office with two people and two heat-producing appliances. The result was to recommend 25 kW of air conditioning capacity. There's another calculator [URL="http://www.climate-facilities.co.uk/air_calculator.asp"]here[/URL] which gives a total capacity of 32 kW for two rooms of 100 m² (the calculator won't accept values that result in a single room of 200 m²), which is not too far off the first result, although the latter does not take account of all the variables which the first does.
Personally, I'd take note of the 25 kW value and speak to an Italian air conditioning person about the options open to you. If he suggests a system that has a capacity which is some multiple of 25 kW, I think you'd be wise to find another engineer. If he suggests a lot less than 25 kW, I think you'd want to question him closely about whether this would be sufficient. In any case, you'll almost certainly be wanting to talk to a air conditioning engineer near your home at some point about the installation since it's really not a DIY job. I'm not sure what you were thinking of or how your property is arranged, but it's possible you could have, say, two outside units – one on the ground floor and one on the first – each connected to two or three internal units. This sort of thing would give you more flexibility about when the units were on (and so obviously consuming electricity).
As for costs, I really have no idea. A thought that does occur, however, is that the current state of the £-€ exchange rates means you might look into buying the units in the UK and bringing them to Italy. I'm sure that if we'd bought the LG unit we had installed last year in Britain rather than Italy, it would have been exactly the same, right down to having the same user and installation manuals.
I hope this might be of some interest and help.
Al
Excellent post Allan - never thought I would enjoy reading a post about air conditioning units.