In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
This is really a quite interesting question. On the one side, it's about rich Russians investing in Italian property (which is happening), but at the moment they are fixated on the Italian coast: my prediction is they'll start to go for seriously landed properties (aka farms), because after commodity funds land is the ultimate commodity. But, in the meantime - before they get onto this fancy - they are certainly into high priced coastal properties, so the less well heeled will be jumping on the bandwagon of anything coastal (to rent to their even more impecunious compatriots) - and Calabria (with arguably the best climate for seaside living in Italy) has got to be a main chance.
Alternative scenario is that the sort of global terrorism which doesn't seem to faze Dubya means that the Russian 'mafia' feel they can do business with n'drangheta. Let us hope 'your' Russians are simply innocent property speculators!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Just a few weeks ago I was talking to a local agent in the town and he said the only reason prices where holding up was because of all the interest from Russians.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
unsurprising ... italy has always had a good relationship with the ex eastern european block... look at who your local town is twinned with and you might get the idea that Italian comunes didn't look west in terms of friendships...
its also well reported here that many of the richer coastal towns are benefiting from Russian investment... and i do mean the very priciest places... its keeping that market going very well indeed...although i would say the wealthy places always manage to escape economic down terms...
i do agree with Charles though that not only Russian but Eastern European money is appearing here more often ... already... also even though one likes to think the British buying market here has an affect on prices in reallity the biggest buyers by far are the dutch german and scandinavians... who often do not seem to have the same problems as the UK buyer... essentially those already in the euro zones... anyway
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I know an estate agent here in Calabria and it seems that the Russians are starting to buy here in Calabria because the Calabrian Agents are actually targeting the Russian Market. How else would they have got here... hey, that's not to say that they'll snap up all the best properties! Be wise about your decision - don't forget : keep your eyes wide open, seek independent legal advice, research your developers' track record if you're buying a new-build and finally learn from other peoples' experiences! This forum will give you a wealth of information! In bocca al lupo!!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Charles Phillips;90922]...
Alternative scenario is that the sort of global terrorism which doesn't seem to faze Dubya means that the Russian 'mafia' feel they can do business with n'drangheta. Let us hope 'your' Russians are simply innocent property speculators![/quote]
Hello, tutti! :smile:
In case if you are wondering, "our russians" turned out to be lovely people. A bit of "mafia" look, but very reliable "property-wise"! :bigergrin: We're enjoying our apartment in Scalea for the 3rd month in a row (it's +28 here today!!!!!!!!)
We've met many ex-pats here (UK's ones :smile: ) which was great to realise we're not the only ones! If anyone's interested, this russian-italian agency we've bought from has organized car parking in Scalea and doing a very good job by delivering UK-reg cars for us to Italy from old UK. here's the link for those interested: [URL="http://www.russianscalea.ru/nedvizhimost/garazh_parkovka_avto/"]Russian Scalea[/URL]
Ciao!
Milke & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi Mike and Lisa
Very interesting. Thanks for the link.
Ciao
John
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Always welcome, John!
Milke & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi Mike, what's the story about the cars from the UK? Where did you buy and are you going to be permanent residents?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=sorella;101096]Hi Mike, what's the story about the cars from the UK? Where did you buy and are you going to be permanent residents?[/quote]
Hi, Sorella!
No plans for a permanent residency just yet, I'm afraid!
We've bought our car from theese guys from the link to avoid renting every time. We've chosen ourselves a good old ford mondeo on [URL="http://www.autotrader.co.uk"]Auto Trader UK[/URL], sent money to their UK bank account and they've bought it for us and delivered it to Scalea a week later. We park it in their garage in Scalea for 500 Euros per year. As we have bought a property using their sevices, we've already trusted them, it could be a bit difficult for you, I guess.
Mike & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi Mike, is the mondeo registered in Italy or will you have to take it back to UK each year for MOT etc,? Did you buy in Scalea> We are in Parco 2000 on via Lauro .
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=sorella;101104]Hi Mike, is the mondeo registered in Italy or will you have to take it back to UK each year for MOT etc,? Did you buy in Scalea> We are in Parco 2000 on via Lauro .[/quote]
But Parco 2000 is in Fume Lao or you've got the exit on the other side? We're in Monticello ("Casa di Russo" as Scaleottos call it due to a number of russians staying there). You know, the uphill area in the centre?
Our Mondeo is UK-reg declared SORN so no tax or mot required. Our insurance doesn't seems to mind it as we cover it when visiting. Carabineries don't give a s***, expecially if you satart any conversation with "scuzi, mio no parle italiano" :winki:
Mike & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Our Mondeo is UK-reg declared SORN so no tax or mot required. Our insurance doesn't seems to mind it as we cover it when visiting. Carabineries don't give a s***, expecially if you satart any conversation with "scuzi, mio no parle italiano" :winki:
Mike & Lisa[/quote]
Hi Mike and Lisa
That last Paragraph quietened everyone down a little.
I don't think that that is legal and should certainly not be broadcast as a way around the system. Your insurance might cover you for theft but for general driving purposes they would be considered accessories to your crime, by knowingly covering a SORN car.
IMHO not advisable.
Ciao
John
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Mike & Lisa;101106]But Parco 2000 is in Fume Lao or you've got the exit on the other side? We're in Monticello ("Casa di Russo" as Scaleottos call it due to a number of russians staying there). You know, the uphill area in the centre?
Our Mondeo is UK-reg declared SORN so no tax or mot required. Our insurance doesn't seems to mind it as we cover it when visiting. Carabineries don't give a s***, expecially if you satart any conversation with "scuzi, mio no parle italiano" :winki:
Mike & Lisa[/quote]
Mike, Lisa
Can I just get this straight in my mind?
You're saying that this system runs like this:
1. A vehicle is declared and registered as SORN.
2. It is then purchased by a second hand car sales company/individual and advertised 'for sale'.
3. You purchase it and contact the Russian company asking them to collect and deliver the car to you in Italy.
4. Does the £1500 fee they charge include their doing the paperwork? (declaring the exportation of a vehicle from the UK)
5. At what point do [I]you[/I] have to register the car in your own name?
6. If the car is being used on the highway in Italy (anywhere in Europe) doesn't that [I]invalidate[/I] the SORN Certificate?
Sorry for so many questions, but I brought my car over and had to notify the DVLC that it was being re-registered under Italian plates. I had to get translations of all the documents and surrender the Log Book. Then I had to register and obtain my Italian plates. Of course I do insure it here in Italy (with Direct Line.it). Any accident I may have might not just involve damage to the car - but possible damage to people too...
So, if there was (heaven forbid) an accident, [I][U]wouldn't your suggested system automatically invalidate your insurance cover? [/U][/I]
If you haven't met the "Jobswoth" Carabinieri YET, then you are lucky. If you do, he/she won't 'give a monkey's' if you do or don't speak Italian - if your documents aren't in order you're in trouble. I KNOW.... some years ago I spent 12 hours in a cell because I was driving my father's UK registered car and even though he was with me (he was on holiday and didn't speak Italian), they wanted to check that I was who I said I was, that I was on his insurance that the car was his [I][U]and[/U][/I] that his UK documents WERE in order....
[URL="http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022058"][B]>Motoring-Owning A Vehicle-UntaxedVehicle[/B][/URL]
I'd be a bit careful - this [I]might[/I] backfire on you...
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
From the DirectGov website:
"You can't make a SORN if your vehicle is outside Great Britain. The vehicle will need to display a valid tax disc."
[url=http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_069727]When to make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) : Directgov - Motoring[/url]
I am sure there are many cars with Uk resistrations being driven around quite legally (we have many friends who drive over to their holiday homes here for a month or six weeks at a time - but they are fully taxed, MOT'd and insured).
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Carole B;101139]Mike, Lisa
Can I just get this straight in my mind?
You're saying that this system runs like this:
1. A vehicle is declared and registered as SORN.
2. It is then purchased by a second hand car sales company/individual and advertised 'for sale'.
3. You purchase it and contact the Russian company asking them to collect and deliver the car to you in Italy.
4. Does the £1500 fee they charge include their doing the paperwork? (declaring the exportation of a vehicle from the UK)
5. At what point do [I]you[/I] have to register the car in your own name?
6. If the car is being used on the highway in Italy (anywhere in Europe) doesn't that [I]invalidate[/I] the SORN Certificate?
Sorry for so many questions, but I brought my car over and had to notify the DVLC that it was being re-registered under Italian plates. I had to get translations of all the documents and surrender the Log Book. Then I had to register and obtain my Italian plates. Of course I do insure it here in Italy (with Direct Line.it). Any accident I may have might not just involve damage to the car - but possible damage to people too...
So, if there was (heaven forbid) an accident, [I][U]wouldn't your suggested system automatically invalidate your insurance cover? [/U][/I]
I'd be a bit careful - this [I]might[/I] backfire on you...[/quote]
Ok, Carole, I don't suggest any system, I'm only saying what we did and some others people experience.
Here's ours algorythm of getting English car in Italy:
1. I've chosen the car on autotrader site being in Italy
2. sent money to UK 1500 pounds and money for the car
3. man went and bought car in his name, and received the logbook later
4. drove it to Italy, I met him and saw the receipt of his purchase and the car has been rergistered in his name
5. registered car in my name, I have signed logbook
6. SORN is my choice (I have done it in UK when existing tax run out) and insurance is my problem and I have sorted it in the way I think it is sorted - you think of yours
7. finito
8. from sending money to driving my car took about 2 weeks
If you'll ask them, they might do export papers also, I think. But why would you buy the car from England if you have Italian residency? (if you have Italian car insurance you should have one, isn't it?)
Our car is still in UK reristration and it doesn's want to become Italian :winki:.
If you'll have any more questions - glad to help.
Mike & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Mike and Lisa. I can't help but feel that when you get caught, you will be very, very unhappy with the result. It is, of course, your choice - as the choice of a burglar is his. However, I cannot see any possible outcome other than tears in the end - your tears to be precise. Petty unlawful actions tend to be bite back in the end. Hard. Your very first accident will be interesting to read about - in the local newspaper, no doubt...
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=iwanttobeinitaly;101141]
I am sure there are many cars with Uk resistrations being driven around quite legally (we have many friends who drive over to their holiday homes here for a month or six weeks at a time - but they are fully taxed, MOT'd and insured).[/quote]
Are you sure you're not a carabineri?.....:bigergrin: There is another mondeo sitting in the block near ours since 2005 (according the tax disc date)...are you sure it's not yours? :laughs:
To Nardini: you wouldn't beleive it, but we've had our first accident three weeks after we have received the car. There weren't any major damage for us or other car. We've exchanged details, and our Insurance company never heard from anybody for a few months now. Sorry, never made it to the paper!
Mike & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Well, Mike and Lisa; You are obviously a very clever couple that have completely beaten the systems both here in Italy and also in the UK. I'm sure there will be no one reading this at any stage that might feel that you are acting in an entirely irresponsible and illegal manner. Just as I'm completely convinced that there will never be the slightest chance of your Russian "fixers" falling foul of the law and having all of the documentation seized that might contain your real names, addresses, car registration details, etc. Of course not. That sort of thing never happens, does it... Especially not in Scalea... How are the property sales bearing up in the face of the economic crisis, by the way? I see that even the oligarchs are having problems these days, eh? :winki:
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Nardini;101153]Well, Mike and Lisa; You are obviously a very clever couple that have completely beaten the systems both here in Italy and also in the UK. I'm sure there will be no one reading this at any stage that might feel that you are acting in an entirely irresponsible and illegal manner. Just as I'm completely convinced that there will never be the slightest chance of your Russian "fixers" falling foul of the law and having all of the documentation seized that might contain your real names, addresses, car registration details, etc. Of course not. That sort of thing never happens, does it... Especially not in Scalea... How are the property sales bearing up in the face of the economic crisis, by the way? I see that even the oligarchs are having problems these days, eh? :winki:[/quote]
Nardini, I'm sure you're right. 100%. no, 110%. There is a huge chance to be killed by a brick fallen from the sky directly onto your head! Let's everybody sit at home and never go out...but there are plenty of fires and electrical shocks...any suggestions?
With regards to the property business, "those rusians" co-run or work in some way with italian agency with 25 years experience in Scalea. Plus, the have a uk-reg ltd company and most of them are british. I won't say nothing about their business, but it looks £ok£ to me :smile: Unfortunately I've seen no oligarchs so far :veryconfused: maybe, it's because they all are in London?:bigergrin:
Mike & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The oligarchs may rule, but is anyone else bored of reading Narkys pedantic, condescending and patronising rants on just about everything?
I've certainly had enough. :yes:
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The Italian judiciary can suspend your UK licence if you violate the laws here in Italy, This could make your return to the UK quite interesting!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Nielo;101159]The Italian judiciary can suspend your UK licence if you violate the laws here in Italy, This could make your return to the UK quite interesting![/quote]
Please no more comments on driving/insurance/dvla etc :SLEEP:I'd prefer to read something about oligarchs, russian mafia, or drangeta, at least!:laughs:
Mike & Lisa
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Lucki by name - lucky by nature, eh?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Well. this has livened up the Calabria forum!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Mike & Lisa;101160]Please no more comments on driving/insurance/dvla etc :SLEEP:I'd prefer to read something about oligarchs, russian mafia, or drangeta, at least!:laughs:
Mike & Lisa[/quote]
What's up - getting a bit hot in the kitchen is it???? [IMG]http://www.degrassi-boards.com/images/smilies/asmilieStirPotChef.gif[/IMG]
Never mind - it'll pass [IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/Baby_Girls_Bucket/smileys/sign-smiley-7161.gif[/IMG]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Carole B;101358]What's up - getting a bit hot in the kitchen is it???? [/quote]
:nah: no, just getting bored
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi Mike where are you from in UK? What airport do you use and do you fly ito Lamezia, Naples or Rome? Have you been on the [URL="http://www.scalea.info/forum/index"]www.scalea.info/forum/index[/URL] yet? Very helpful and specific to the area. As far as the car goes, I think people were only trying to help and it just developed into a bit of a slanging match. It's easy to take people the wrong way in these forums when we try to put a lot into very short posts.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=sorella;101478]Hi Mike where are you from in UK? What airport do you use and do you fly ito Lamezia, Naples or Rome? Have you been on the [url]www.scalea.info/forum/index[/url] yet? Very helpful and specific to the area. As far as the car goes, I think people were only trying to help and it just developed into a bit of a slanging match. It's easy to take people the wrong way in these forums when we try to put a lot into very short posts.[/quote]
Hi! Yes, we have been on that forum and have already met many wonderful people there as well as in Scalea itself. Withregards to the car - all good and sorted with UK insurance. PLEASE DO NOT BOTHER ME WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS!
Only wanted to say - [B]anybody who bough with Servizi Immobiliari Srl (HolidaysHouse.it) in Scalea (co-owners of RussianScalea.ru with LUCKONI.com) in the past years are now entitled to have a 10% discount card that works in many restaurants, car rentals, private lidos, designer shops etc. in Scalea Just pick up card in the office (opposite Hotel Talao) and enjoy your savings![/B]
Mike & Lisa
Well, there's Russians - and there's Russians - so I guess it depends on what kind of Russians you're talking about.