10883 Hornets again

Wouldn't a good spray of wasp's nest destroyer aimed from abt seven feet away and hitting the nest like shaving foam do the trick?

I think it was

[url=http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=200316&pf_id=LS2001D]Waspinator[/url]

but you'll need to find a supplier [google?] that does Italy
.

There are lots of these 'vespe' sprays around...............not cheap but they work............be prepared for DOZENS of insect bodies lying around, we keep a ZIG ZAG spray in the shed......:yes:

I think a DIY version would give you a trial run, large grey plastic bag filled with hay or something, doesnt look very attractive, but at least would give you some idea of if it works or not, though if the nest is there already it seem unlikely that it would.
A

[quote=Angie and Robert;101871]I think a DIY version would give you a trial run,.........[/quote]

I reckon it could be worth trying to make a papier mache nest.

[Blue Peter - eat your heart out]

I think Alan H is right in suggesting you're thinking of the [URL="http://waspinator.com/"]Waspinator[/URL], but a couple of points:

First, the hornets we have in Italy are not the same species of insect called wasps or yellow-jackets in the USA. Even if the Waspinator really does work as a wasp repellent, that does not mean it will deter hornets.

Second, I'm sceptical about how well a fake wasp nest would work in any case since they don't have the smell of a real nest and don't have residents regularly coming and going. From what I know about honeybees, I suspect that those two factors would result in wasps paying little attention to a fake wasp nest.

Finally, if it was possible to discouraging hornets from setting up a nest by just hanging something that looks like a big lump of hornet-made paper in a tree, I'm pretty certain that Italian country folk would have discovered this long ago.

We had two hornet colonies active near our house over the summer.

One is in an old oak tree some distance from the house. So far, I've left it alone and I'd like to continue to do so, but it does seem to be continually growing even at this time of year and that, I think, does not bode well for the number of hornets we'll have around here next year.

The other nest was in box I'd made up for transporting cats by car from Scotland. I'd left that in our barn and the hornets had obviously decided it was a great substitute for a hollow tree. I left them alone as long as I could, hoping they'd move on or die out with the approach of winter, but the amount of activity seemed to be constantly increasing and it got to the point where we avoided going near the barn because of the things.

One of our neighbours advised using petrol to get rid of them – not to burn them out, but to kill them with the fumes.

Interestingly, when beekeepers need to kill a colony due to disease, the recommended procedure is to close up the hive entrance, pour a small amount of petrol into the hive and seal it up. Apparently, it works very quickly and is relatively humane. I don't know if insects can get intoxicated on petrol fumes like people, but it seems likely to be a nicer way to go than via an insecticide spray that works rather like nerve gas.

In any case, a couple of weeks back I got fed up with hornets trying to get into the house and taped a jam jar on the end of a long pole, filled it with petrol and then poured it in the box. There was a bit of a reaction from the hive, but hornets did not come boiling out as I'd half-feared. After 15 minutes had passed, I went back to the area and heard buzzing from the box, so I poured another jar of petrol in. When I (very carefully) checked again in half an hour or so, all the hornets in the box were dead. Some hornets which had obviously been out foraging were hovering around, wanting to get in to the hive, but apparently not happy about the new smell of the place. They weren't aggressive towards me (clearly they didn't associate my presence with the problems in the hive) so it was easy to dispatch them with an an insecticide spray.

In retrospect, it would have been better if I had used the petrol at night when there are few hornets out of the hive.

I suspect that this approach will not meet with your approval, Becky. Even if you wanted to kill your hornet colony, I'm not sure how well it would work with a nest in an olive tree. It might if they're inside a hollow tree, but it obviously would need to be a fairly well-sealed space in order for the petrol fumes to not just flow out of the bottom, and I've not seen many old olive trees with trunks that neat. If the nest is a free-hanging construction, you might get good results by pouring petrol on the nest and letting it soak into the paper, but I don't know how well this would work.

Perhaps your best approach would be to get rid of the current occupants using whatever methods you can stomach, and then make sure the holes used by the hornets have been blocked before they start looking for nesting places next Spring. If they're in a hollow tree, I can see how this might be easier said than done, especially since you don't want to close up the space so well that you have a problem with water collecting inside the tree. Maybe you could fill it with stones? Or perhaps stuff crumpled-up metal or plastic mesh into the holes?

Al

Or you could try my gardener’s solution…this summer I called Franco to say that I had 2 wasp nests on the drainpipe next to the kitchen and 2 children freaking out; what did he suggest? “Oh” he said “no problem, I’ll come round and we’ll smoke ‘em out!” So round he came and proceeded to light a torch made out of rolled-up newspaper and set light to the two nests and himself (it was a windy day but he forgot to take this into account!) and, once the nests were burning merrily, he stomped around stamping to death any wasps that might have escaped his pyre. A drastic solution but VERY efficient: no wasps dared show their faces around our house for the rest of the summer. I’ll be interested to see if, when we go back at Christmas, we are still a wasp-free zone.

Annamarie
I'll think I'll pass on the setting fire to myself solution!!Did you get pictures?

Allan as you hint at I am drawn towards solutions that deter rather than eliminate pests although I may have to conceed with the hornets.Like you we started with a nest in a huge old tree that pretty much left us uneffectd.Some of this lot must have decided to set up a new home in a holllowish olive tree.You can see the paper like structure in the hole;quite beautiful!

I'm wonderthing this; over the winter don't the 'drones' die? Meaning that in that period the actual nest is full of grubs not hornets? Would the best tactic be to hack into this and open it to the elements leaving woodpecker ( may act to distract them from shutters) to eat the grubs / eggs??Then block up the site to prevent recolonisation.That way you are preventing a whole new crop of hornets emerging in the spring.

And I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but all these toxic sprays people are using are manufactored in places which then have to dispose of the waste they create in their production usually in old quarries and land around Naples (where cancer rates are 20% above the average) or even in Abruzzo aided by criminal gangs like Camorra (seen Gomorrah yet?).If they eliminate insects they aint going to do you much good either;paritcullary when they get into your water supplies.

We too have been plagued by hornets this summer. We were bombarded, but not stung by them most summer evenings whilst eating al fresco. The size of them! At least 2 inches....but they only flew toward the light source and didn't bother us. Though it was quite unnerving been in the flight path of 30 or 40 hornets. We were advised by a neighbour to pour diesel into the nest (hole in an old oak), but this may be difficult considering the nest is 30 foot up and "getting out quick" would not be an easy task. Parachute maybe, abseil ? They are still bothering us and every evening bump against our terrace doors, and if we leave a light on and open a door for say bringing in late night shopping, there in! I'm a veggie, and although I don't want to eat them I shudder at the thought of the ways we have been advised to end their existence.......
Can anyone advise, we have heard that if these guys get it into their heads that they don't like you, like pouring diesel into thier nest, the first one to sting you leaves a chemical marker for the rest to follow. Multiple hornet stings are/ can be fatal.
Sprat

Pilchard when I get time later I'll google hornets and see what I can come up with..like you we tend to stear clear of the agent orange approach.

Unfortunately much as I love Italians any advice on controlling wildlife reminds me of those Rambo films when he's running about with a massive great flame gun massacarig everything in site!

Talk about taking a hammer to crack a nut.

Sprat, you're right about the sting of a hornet (or a honeybee, for that matter) giving off a scent which attracts others of the species. However, don't attribute too much intelligence to the beasties. It was very clear when I poured petrol into the nest using a container on the end of a four-metre pole, that the hornets had no idea I was a threat to them. They continued to zoom past me going about their business as I was doing the wicked deed. If I had walked up to the nest with a cup of petrol in my hand, given it a kick and poured the stuff on, I'm sure the result would be very different!

Becky, I've not looked it up, but I assume the life-cycle of hornets is similar to that of other bees and wasps (although not honeybees, they're pretty much unique) and goes something like this:

In the spring, a female which mated the previous season and overwintered in some protected nook or cranny creates a nest, lays eggs and raises the first generation by feeding the grub phase and protecting the nest while they go through the pupal stage. When the new adult wasps appear, the colony really starts to take off because they share the duties of looking after the grubs, gathering food and so on. The original mated female continues to lay eggs. Most of the new wasps are females who are never mated, but a few males are produced along with a few fertile females who will be mated. These will fly off and start their own colonies or, if it's late in the season, look for someplace to spend the winter. Come the next spring, the whole cycle repeats.

It's clear to me that hornets will nest in sites used in previous years, but I'm not clear if the nest itself is reused.

I'd also imagine that there will be hornets in a nest over the winter since they're in protected places. If it's cold, they'll probably be dozy, but still not something to mess around with. I think it's unlikely that there will be grubs in the nest over the winter since they need feeding and there aren't many insects available for that in the winter (as well as few hornets flying around looking for them).

If you can figure out a way of destroying the nest without putting yourself in danger, I think that would be the best approach. Maybe wait until it's very cold? I still like the idea of filling up the cavity they've used to build their nest with something that means they just won't have the space to work with next year.

Al

Well you lot with the agent orange should be pleased not to be living in Germany where a 50,000 euro fine can be levied against anyone killing a hornet!!!Yes really.

Also I have found out that all of the hornets flying about now will soon die leaving only the queen in the nest so if you wait a few weeks the nest can safetly be removed as I suggested.then if the site is made inaccessable hopefully next year they will not return!

hornets do good in the garden by kiling other pests.

This is from the net

[B]Gentle Giants[/B]

While impressive due to their size and loud sound, European hornets are in fact much less aggressive than some of their smaller relatives, notably the [URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/yellowjacket"][COLOR=#003399]yellowjackets[/COLOR][/URL], [I][URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/german-wasp"][COLOR=#003399]Vespula germanica[/COLOR][/URL][/I] and [I][URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/common-wasp-1"][COLOR=#003399]Vespula vulgaris[/COLOR][/URL][/I]. When approached, European hornets can actually be seen to slowly crawl backwards and eventually flee, rather than attacking. This can make it hard to remove hornets from indoors, if they happen to come in through an open window or door. While not aggressive when encountered far from the nest, multiple workers will vigorously defend the nest if provoked. Nests can be approached without provocation (moving slowly and not breathing towards the nest) to about 50 cm. Nests are usually not a problem outside buildings, but because they drip faeces, a bad smelling black liquid, nests inside sheds or walls can be a problem.

[B]Endangered Species and Legal Protection[/B]

Unwarranted fear has often led to the destruction of nests, leading to the decline of the species, and is often locally threatened or even endangered. European hornets benefit from legal protection in some countries, notably [URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/germany"][COLOR=#003399]Germany[/COLOR][/URL], where it is illegal to kill a European hornet or nest since 1st January [URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/1987"][COLOR=#003399]1987[/COLOR][/URL], with a fine up to [FONT=Arial Black]50,000 Euros[/FONT] [URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/european-hornet#wp-_note-1"][COLOR=#003399][2][/COLOR][/URL].

Allan I found this too which means the life cycle is different from some otherb species
"The workers and queens survive at most until mid to late autumn; only the fertilized queens survive over winter."

We have at least one calabrone nest somewhere around the property each year, and actually I tolerate them as long as they don't nest near the house. I find that hornets are not aggressive like their vespe cousins, and generally leave you alone as long as you leave them alone (don't stir up their nest!), although they are a nuisance when the grapes and other fruit get ripe as they can consume a lot! I patrol the vineyard with a badmington racket in late summer, it may not be that effective, but is satisfying to swat them (I tried to communicate with them to only take the fallen fruit and I would leave them alone, but they didn't listen, and after all I am the dominant species!).
But when they nest around the house, thats a different story as they scare the beejeebers out of my wife and other guests, so that's when we resort to nasty chemicals, the long range wasp sprays sold at all hardware stores and many supermarkets works just fine as in most cases you can stay out of harms way, however I only zap them early in the morning, when they are still asleep in the nest, so I can get them all (also same for wasps) at home as they are late risers. I learned over the years that a little spray goes a long way too. Usually knock down the nest and feed it to the chickens who love the grubs.

[quote=myabruzzohome;102012]Well you lot with the agent orange should be pleased not to be living in Germany where a 50,000 euro fine can be levied against anyone killing a hornet!!!Yes really.

Also I have found out that all of the hornets flying about now will soon die leaving only the queen in the nest so if you wait a few weeks the nest can safetly be removed as I suggested.then if the site is made inaccessable hopefully next year they will not return!

hornets do good in the garden by kiling other pests.
...
While impressive due to their size and loud sound, European hornets are in fact much less aggressive than some of their smaller relatives, notably the [URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/yellowjacket"][COLOR=#003399]yellowjackets[/COLOR][/URL], [I][URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/german-wasp"][COLOR=#003399]Vespula germanica[/COLOR][/URL][/I] and [I][URL="http://www.answers.com/topic/common-wasp-1"][COLOR=#003399]Vespula vulgaris[/COLOR][/URL][/I].[/quote]
I was aware of the fact that hornets, like wasps, are actually good news for gardeners for most of the year because they're predators. Unfortunately, wasps loose interest in being useful in the late Summer when the nest no longer has pupae to feed and they shift to being nuisances looking for sweet stuff until they die. Hornets are less of a pest, but they do get very interested in lights and warm places at this time of year, so we've had a number of them trying to get inside.

I was also aware of the legal position of hornets in Germany due to my partner being a native German-speaker. I'm less clear on whether that protection is actually justified. Hornets certainly do not seem to be at all scarce in central Italy.

As for their pacific natures, that's all well and good and I agree in principle that they should be left to get on with their lives with as little interference from us as possible. However, I don't think it's completely unjustified to take steps to eliminate a nuisance if, like Villa Sampaguita, there are people being frightened by the things. And it's difficult to deny that their size and sound does make them rather scary, even if you know they're [I]supposedly[/I] not a threat. There's also the fact that we have an infant living here and, while she will be educated about how she should respect such creatures when she is able to understand, that's some months away and allowing a very active hornet nest to exist just a few metres from the house seems to her mother and me to be tempting fate just a little too much.

Al

Thank you for your help and information
Sprat