10999 Snow Tyres

We have snow tyres on both our Citroen and 4x4. With the Citroen we did sometimes need to put chains on in certain conditions, but the 4x4 manages without any real problems. Best to carry chains if a normal vehicle, just in case.
We are at 400 mtrs

[quote=Brush Strokes;103634]Is it worth investing in snow tyres for the coming winter? I live about 300m or so and occasionally pop into the mountains, so they are not essential, however I've no idea what a difference they make, will it mean I will be able to drive a lot higher without putting the chains on?[/quote]
We live at around 500m on the eastern side of the Apennines, 15 km south of Teramo and 40 km west of Pescara. This will be our third winter here.

Over the winter of 2006/07, there was one day when snow fell here, but it didn't settle. Last winter, we had a few cm of soggy snow in November that went fairly quickly, then nearly a metre of the stuff fall over a period of three days in mid-December. That hung around for a couple of weeks, slowly melting.

Both times, the roads – even very minor roads – were ploughed and gritted very promptly as soon as the snow stopped.

I've considered (and reconsidered, several times) getting snow tyres, but decided they would be a waste of money.

First, the sinuous roads around our house scrub the tread of normal tyres very quickly. Since the rubber of snow tyres is softer than that of ordinary tyres, they would wear out even quicker.

Second, snow is just not that common here. If we lived in the far north of Italy, in Switzerland, Austria or alpine France or Germany, I'm sure we'd have snow tyres (in any case, the law requires that in some places), but our area of central Italy is not the Alps.

Third, since we're not employed and so generally don't have to leave the house unless we choose to do so, it makes much more sense just to wait until the roads are cleared and safer than they ever will be – even for a car equipped with snow tyres – when covered with snow and ice.

A new set of reasonable quality tyres for our 4x4 costs around €850. I have no idea how much four snow tyres and another set of wheels would cost, but I am certain that the possible benefits of having winter and summer tyres are, for us in our circumstances, outweighed by their associated costs and hassles.

This time of year, we make a point of never letting a shopping trip get to the point of being urgently needed and we always have chains in the car. That, like having enough fuel on hand to keep the house warm, lots of candles and a generator with plenty of fuel for it, is just common sense if you live in a farmhouse in the mountains just about anywhere. Far better, I think, to be prepared to be stuck at home for a few days then to be equipped to (more or less) cope with bad weather conditions because you [I]have[/I] to venture out.

Al

I am in a similar position Allan, 500 mtrs but not as near the mountains as you.

We are faced with the quandary of getting either snow tyres or chains for our car. The conclusion we have come to is the same as yours, the cost of snow tyres for the odd occasion we might need them is far too great compared with the cost of snow chains.

I have to admit I really like the feeling that we have a good stock of fuel, logs, gas and sansa, a cantina full of food and essential supplies and that we can sit out any bad weather, warm and cosy in the house, and enjoy it.

Of course it is a totally different thing if you have to go to work.

we use snow tyres...not because we get more snow...most probably less in fact... they are just safer and easier than either normal tyres or chains....

in essence they are winter tyres which cope better with rain,ice,slippery surfaces where leaves have fallen and virtually everything else associated with winter ... including snow... and most importantly to my mind the fact that when you drive in Italy in the winter its even more important to be able to stop quickly as at that time of year its even more common to find oncoming traffic on your side of the road.... as Italian drivers in general seem to find it even harder to cope with these conditions or consider changing their speed to suit them...

as to the costs..generally around the same as normal tyres... and basically you just use the same wheel hub and get them changed each season, a snow tyre lasting around three to four years...depending on your mileage... and because you are using two sets of tyres obviously the normal tyres have an extended life too... it does cost of course...but maybe not as much as first appears...

chains of course are much cheaper ... the main problem that i see with them is the actual lack of snow here... if it snows where you live say at your 300 m level...you get down to clear main roads after putting on the chains... and then they have to come off... they will destroy your tyre and the road...otherwise... drive a couple of kms... and you arrive at a hill..not uncommon in abruzzo with snow and ice on... get out ...put on chains... etc...etc etc...

so you do have to decide whats important...maybe try chains the first year and see how you get on... however as each winter here in Italy develops in its own special way... it would be hard to say that anything is the norm...

so to my mind its just easy to have the two sets of tyres.... we do not put them on both cars.... cause basically one car is enough to get about in... a suggestion is if you know anyone near you with winter tyres fitted would be to have a drive in their vehicle... on at least a wet day... you will be surprised about the difference they make as regards stopping distances and stability....

so to my mind there is no easy answer to your question... and maybe it just comes down to cost.... i do not regard planning involving staying at home a serious consideration... because all the planning in the world never covers what might happen... and if you will have to go somewhere ... having chains will allow you to get out... getting them on and off a few times on the journey will maybe decide for you that a tyre change is called for...

I didn't have snow tyres for the first winter I was here (when we had over two metres of snow) because my ex thought they were a waste of money.

The following winter, after turning round a right hand bend and the car continuing stright towards a sheer drop (pretty alarming!) instead of turning, I headed straight to the garage and had winter tyres put on. The difference was enormous. I was driving on snow-ploughed roads or just icy roads and they gripped wonderfully. I also have snow chains for when there is compacted snow on the road as I still need them here (500m and near the mountains).

You don't need an extra set of wheels as most garages will store the spare tyres for you. I pay about €18 to get them changed over and another €5 to store the spare set at the garage for the year. The snow tyres last about 2 winters and you can feel the difference when they start to go. They were about the same price as my ordinary tyres.

I really wouldn't be without them here but if you just go into the mountains occasionally, I would probably stick to snow chains. The are obligatory on most mountains roads anyway. I have found the snow tyres are not very good in the wet - a bit slippery.

Having thanked adriatica, as I agree with her post, that WINTER tyres do give better tread in rain and snow and more grip at low temperatures, you will still be required to carry snow chains.
Winter tyres are not snow tyres. The tread pattern on snow tyres is different and thus eliminates the need for chains. We are at 627 mts and change to snow tyres, which infact are a spare set of wheels for our 4x4, about this time of year.

Does anyone living in Scotland or the Lake District use snow tyres or chains? I would have thought the conditions there in winter might be similar.

Noble, I am about to buy some new winter tyres (gomme termiche) and I was told that so long as the tyres have the snowflake symbol, I don't need snow chains but I'll ask them again and reply.

I checked on the Pirelli website too and they call them winter tyres - there are no specific snow tyre (other than studded ones) unless I am missing something.:veryconfused:

Yes Penny never ever simple. You are right the snowflake indicates that it is a snow tyre and has a tread suited to snow conditions. The snow flake is the thing to look for according to he who knows!! No snow flake and chains have to be onboard too. (There are apparently tyres suited to winter conditions but tread differs).

I've been here two winters in the Aosta valley and have yet to buy snow tyres or use the chains I have, but I'm sure not having the tyres has put me off going skiing a number of times. Often you don't need chains for very far, so as Adriatica has pointed out, tyres are a much more practical option than putting on and taking off chains within a couple of kilometres or a couple of hundred metres of altitude.

I've already been skiing twice this season and it's not the end of November yet, so I'm looking to buy this year on the back of some guaranteed teaching work. One thing I do want to do is have them on separate wheels so that I can change them myself when I go back to the UK or do any long trips to the plains, but as I'm asking around to get bthem cheap or to see what people might have in their cantine it's taking a little while!:-)

[quote=Nielo;103852]Does anyone living in Scotland or the Lake District use snow tyres or chains? I would have thought the conditions there in winter might be similar.[/quote]

Doesn't work in UK.

The insurance companies will not insure anyone travelling on a road where chains or special tyres are required and you become uninsured if you use them.

sue

the tyre sellers often have part used tyres available... so if you have a car which is sort of fairly standard there is a good chance of picking up cheap tyres... even on wheels... you need to look for a place on an indutrial estate... where they have room to store that sort of thing... the smaller ones in town rarely keep any second hand type stock... one thing to watch for is the date on the tyre... make sure they are not too old ...

OK, I think I might have the answer about whether these are a legal substitute for snow chains in Italy.

Yesterday, I was in Brico and they were selling snow socks for €49.99 made by an Italian company. On the packaging it said "Not for use in place of snow chains on roads where snow chains are obligatory".

It also said they should not be used on rough road surfaces as the material could get damaged. No good for white roads then!

From the blurb on the packet, they have a " Prestigious TUV Austrian homologation" and are for use as extra traction in snowy conditions if you don't have snow tyres. Thinking about it, I have seen them a lot in Norway when I was working there but all the road surfaces are tarmac so I suppose it makes sense.

[quote=Penny;103949]Yesterday, I was in Brico and they were selling snow socks for €49.99 made by an Italian company. On the packaging it said "Not for use in place of snow chains on roads where snow chains are obligatory". [/quote]
While accepting that snow socks cost less than proper snow chains and are somewhat less of a hassle to put on and take off, that proviso left me wondering what actual benefit one might gain from snow socks.
[quote=Penny;103949]It also said they should not be used on rough road surfaces as the material could get damaged. No good for white roads then![/quote]
Many minor (and not so minor) roads around where we live are in a poor state of repair. I'm really not tempted to experiment and find out if that's what the manufacturers mean by "rough road surfaces", or if it's only proper white roads that would cause rapid damage.

Al

I thought that carrying snow chains was mandatory in certain areas and at certain times of the year and that the police can check that you have them.

I did a price comparison the other day and to get 4 snow tyres for my car would cost aprox. €260/€300. Snow chains, on the other hand, are between €20 (probably not very good) and €90 for some pretty fancy ones.

Given that I don’t drive into the mountains in winter and only really make short local journeys I will opt for the chains, which will give me the freedom to use certain roads if I want but won’t break the bank either.

Many thanks to all for the great advice. (I did actually mean winter tyres and not snow tryes).

This will be my third winter here and although my snow chains sit in the boot of my car each winter I've yet to use them, so perhaps I will stick to these for the time being until such time I decide to do a lot more driving in the mountains.

I always keep meaning to practice putting the chains on during the summer, but never get round to it, so that is something to look forward to!!

Thanks again to all

[quote=cardi;103865]Doesn't work in UK.

The insurance companies will not insure anyone travelling on a road where chains or special tyres are required and you become uninsured if you use them.[/quote]

I'd be interested to see their T&C quoted as it would preclude anybody who got caught out in bad weather. Be a bit silly not to use chains if you had them. I'm sure I've seen reference in another forum to people in N Yorkshire and/or? Northumberland using snow tyres.

[quote=Brush Strokes;103996]I always keep meaning to practice putting the chains on during the summer, but never get round to it, so that is something to look forward to!!
[/quote]

Aaargh, thanks for reminding me to practise too!

These are the tyres that I use on the Pajero, we don't bother to change them, as not really worth the effort as the vehicle handles just as well in most weather conditions. Even the local garage guy thought they were really good for the price.
[url=http://www.coopertire.com/html/products/tires_suv.aspx?tab=4&page=discoverer_ms]Cooper Tires - -[/url]

These are the tyres I use in Italy. :bigergrin:
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