10423 'Foxy Knoxy' On Trial: Tonight

I was surprised this was broadcast before the trial. It looks as though a lot of the evidence is circumstantial but it is certainly a very strange case. :veryconfused:

Am I alone in finding this whole business incredibly disturbing? And reading so many differing accounts just adds to the confusion. Reading the Italian press, you're by and large convinced of her guilt. But then a well respected journalist in Vanity Fair threw a totally different light on all the so called "evidence". Anyone know what effect the publicity is having on Perugia itself? Wouldn't have thought it would be good.

[quote=Violetta;97126]Anyone know what effect the publicity is having on Perugia itself? Wouldn't have thought it would be good.[/quote]

At the beginning it was quite bad - lots of foreign students deserted their courses, and no-one wanted to come to study. Much hair shirt stuff by the town authorities, and a few extra vigili to pick up the syringes. Then all back to normal and you can score whatever you want in front of the duomo. So no change there then!

It is a fascinating case (and I'm ashamed to say I have followed it avidly in the Perugia press from the outset). The Ivorian, Rudy Guede, (who admits to having been in the house at the time but claims he had nothing to do with the crime) has such an incredibly unlikely story it just could be true. It has always been widely reported that the scene of the crime was pretty thoroughly cleaned up before the first police examinations, and Rudy's defence lawyer seems to have the killer defence: if Rudy had been doing this cleaning up surely he would have flushed the loo (which is where his 'evidence' was found).

The loonier journos are trying to link this case with the 'caso Nardini and the mostro di Firenze', (which celebrated case has slim Perugia connections).

Anything to sell a story! (Apologies to the omonymous forum member - nothing to do with him, I'm sure).

We were in Perugia in Piazza Matiotti where the court house is situated, yesterday. A hearing was taking place before the trial and Amanda Knox's Italian boyfriend was represented but did not appear. Wonder why? Is it a case of he has a father with influence or what. Film crew and police everywhere.

From what I've read, this is just a sad but mundane rape and murder case. My guess is that Knox and Sollecito were not involved, but managed to incriminate themselves by doing something stupid, such as lying to the police.

There are two excellent pro-evidence, pro-victim websites about the Meredith Kercher case.

True Justice For Meredith Kercher:

[URL="http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php"]True Justice For Meredith Kercher[/URL]

Perugia Murder File:

[URL="http://perugiamurderfile.freeforums.org/portal.php"]Perugia Murder File :: Home[/URL]

ALL the judges who have been involved in the case: Judge Claudia Matteini, the judges at the Italian Supreme Court, judge Massimo Riccarelli, and judge Paolo Micheli all thought there were serious indications of Amanda Knox's and Raffaele Sollecito’s guilt and refused to grant them bail on the grounds that they are mentally unstable, dangerous and could reoffend. The case against her and Raffaele Sollecito is formidable.

There are 13 pieces of forensic evidence that link Amanda and Raffaele to the crime, including Amanda's DNA on the handle of the knife found at Raffaele's apartment and Meredith's DNA on the blade, and Amanda's bare footprints set in Meredith's blood and Raffaele's DNA on Meredith's bloodied and cut bra.
Amanda and Raffaele knew precise details about Meredith's body which they could only have known if they had been present when Meredith was murdered. Amanda herself admitted she was present when Meredith was murdered in her handwritten note to the police on 6 November.

Amanda and Raffaele not only gave conflicting witness statements, but also gave completely different accounts of where they were, who they were with and what they were doing on the night of the murder.
In the light of the judges decisions so far and the forensic evidence which was independently confirmed as accurate and reliable, it looks extremely unlikely that Amanda and Raffaele will be found not guilty.

[quote=Harry Rag;104282]In the light of the judges decisions so far and the forensic evidence which was independently confirmed as accurate and reliable, it looks extremely unlikely that Amanda and Raffaele will be found not guilty.[/quote]
Oh, well, just lock them both up forever then, eh? After all, [I]everyone[/I] knows that Italian police, prosecutors and judges [I]never[/I] make errors of judgement, handle evidence so badly that cross-contamination occurs, conspire to cover up failures, try to browbeat and intimidate people until they confess, spin a case from the flimsiest of evidence, seek tabloid fame (or possibly tabloid cash) by leaking evidence or do anything less than act with the utmost probity and professionalism.

In fact, [I]everyone[/I] knows the Italian justice system is so perfect that it's the envy of the world.

Yeah. :rollingeyes:

Al

Hi Al,

There isn't a huge, sinister conspiracy involving the Italian police, postal police, forensic scientists, prosectors, judges, and media to frame Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

You should take a look at Kermit's brilliant powerpoint presentations on the True Justice For Meredith Kercher website. The fact there were three different sized bloody footprints at the crime scene completely demolishes the theory that Meredith was murdered by a lone wolf.

Why do you think that the murderers cleaned up the crime scene? The police and the prosecutors believe the clean up points directly to one of the people closely related to the cottage.

Why do you think someone scrubbed Amanda Knox's room so thoroughly that there isn't a single one of her fingerprints in the room.

I also highly recommend Nicki's excellent and timely piece about the Italian legal sytsem on the True Justice For Meredith Kercher website.

Cheers,

Harry

Wow, Allan - that's a lot of spin: have you been reading exclusively the Seattle press?

While of course I accept that the Italian police can mess up forensic evidence as comprehensively as any other police force - are you really suggesting that they browbeat that disgusting piece of American filth, who has lied and calumnised from day one? She rather makes me want to rethink my views on hanging.

[quote=Charles Phillips;104317]are you really suggesting that they browbeat that disgusting piece of American filth, who has lied and calumnised from day one? She rather makes me want to rethink my views on hanging.[/quote]
I admit that I've paid only enough attention to this case to know that as far as the British tabloids and the esteemed police and prosecutors of Perguia are concerned, Knox is indeed just as evil as you seem to believe. I bow to your superior knowledge of her character and the evidence.

I really have not spent any time reading the salacious and grisly stuff that has (I believe) been churned out by the lower end of the British media since I really fail to see why such things should concern me, but this thread did prompt me to waste half an hour or so this morning. A comment on one of the anti-Knox websites struck me as interesting: apparently, since she has been known to burst into song while eating in a restaurant and so embarrassing others, she is clearly mad and therefore obviously guilty of murder.

I guess this is the sort of case where the Italian system of justice not relying on the tiresome and unpredictable procedure of trial by a jury of one's peers comes in handy. With infallible judges deciding the case, they won't be influenced by information leaked to the media by the authorities and everyone will receive exactly the verdict and sentence they deserve.

And I suppose the fact that the evidence of the guilt of Knox and Sollecito is so clear-cut and obvious is the reason this case has proceeded to trial so quickly.

I'd like to see justice for Meredith Kercher and every other victim of crime of every sort. Unfortunately, trial by tabloid has always seemed to me to be no better than mob justice and I've never been able to accept that it's okay to find an innocent guilty of a crime since the main point of a civilised justice system should be to wrap up every case neatly by punishing [I]someone[/I] for every crime.

From what I've read – and for the virtually nothing that my opinion is worth – it seems to me that there are questions about what Knox and Sollecito did on the night of the murder and immediately after. But there is a strong whiff of something very unpleasant surrounding this case which makes me fervently hope that neither I nor anyone I care for ever has the misfortune to be in the wrong place and the wrong time and so become entangled in the Italian criminal justice system. That hope applies to many other countries as well (including the UK and USA), but it does seem to me that there are features of the Italian criminal justice system which make it more nightmarish and Kafkaesque than some.

Al

To cut to the quick. Essentially if you are beautiful, young and relatively wealthy it looks like it might be remarkable simple to literally 'get away with murder'!!!

Personally I applaud the family of Meridith who have throughout conducted themselves with dignity in what must an absolutely terrible time for them! Although I never have subscribed to the 'eye for eye' theory, I do believe justice involves punishing those who commit such horrendous crimes.

Please let us remember that we are actually discussing the needless death of a young girl.

I agree with your assesment that there is a lot wrong wth the Italian justice system, but I'm coming from rather a different angle.

The most unpleasant thing about this case (from the legal system point of view) is the deference which Sollecito's defence team consider is 'due to them' on the part of the justices simply because of the influential position of his father. And the consideration which Knox's team pleads for on the basis that she never did anything like this back in Washington state. B ollocks.

I have already confessed to following this story avidly since the outset, in the local Perugia press. Don't you remember that a completely innocent (although he was Congolese) man was incarcerated for almost a month solely on the word of this woman? He couldn't have been innocent, in her eyes, because he originated from some place where they don't grow WASPs.

Charles I absolutely support your sentiments. Lets wait until next week for the verdict!!

[quote=Charles Phillips;104349]Don't you remember that a completely innocent (although he was Congolese) man was incarcerated for almost a month solely on the word of this woman? He couldn't have been innocent, in her eyes, because he originated from some place where they don't grow WASPs.[/quote]
Since this WASP was hatched and grew up very near to where Knox comes from, I suppose I might possibly have cause to feel offended at that comment, but nevermind...

I do indeed recall that Patrick Lumumba was locked up for almost a month on grounds no more substantial than Knox making an allegation (which I believe she later withdrew and because of which Lumumba is now seeking substantial damages). However, it wasn't [I]Knox[/I] who arrested him and locked him up. The decision to respond in that way to her unsubstantiated allegations was made by the same bunch of Professionals who are convinced that Knox and Sollecito are guilty.

As for Sollecito, his family and lawyers, I'm a very long way from having a command of Italian sufficient to understand the subtleties and nuances of what they're up to. All I can recall reading about his dealings with the police and prosecutors is that it seems that he, unlike Knox, had street-sense sufficient to make him keep his mouth shut when he was being interrogated.

Which seems to me quite possibly the wisest course for anyone – guilty or not – when being questioned by police or prosecutor without either a legal adviser and recording equipment present.

Al

[quote=Nicola D;104347]Essentially if you are beautiful, young and relatively wealthy it looks like it might be remarkable simple to literally 'get away with murder'!!![/quote]
Assuming, of course, that Knox is not found guilty.

And assuming – although the possibility of anything else being true is something that a lot of Brits seem to have difficulty grasping – that she [I]did[/I] actually murder Meredith Kercher.
[quote=Nicola D;104347]Personally I applaud the family of Meridith who have throughout conducted themselves with dignity in what must an absolutely terrible time for them! Although I never have subscribed to the 'eye for eye' theory, I do believe justice involves punishing those who commit such horrendous crimes.[/quote]
Absolutely agree that the guilty should be punished. But I also believe that locking up innocent people for crimes they did not commit does not serve justice and only compounds the tragedy.

Miscarriages of justice happen under every judicial system. There have been enough high-profile cases in Britain to show that it doesn't require some huge conspiracy to have innocent people locked up for decades. I refuse to believe that the criminal justice system in Italy is so perfect that such things never happen here.

Of course, the Kercher family is not actually seeking "an eye for an eye"; they're looking for €25 million. From what I've seen, the British media seems to be handling this point with kid gloves since some people might think it doesn't sit easily with the image of a family responding to a horrible loss with great dignity.

Personally, I've always had great difficulty with the concept of blood money. Someone who commits murder should pay a heavy price, but I don't accept that justice demands that his or her immediate family have their lives ruined as well.
[quote=Nicola D;104347]Please let us remember that we are actually discussing the needless death of a young girl. [/quote]
Yes, and we're also discussing the possibility that a young girl and young man might have at least a large chunk of their lives taken away from them as the result of fallible people working in an imperfect world reaching incorrect conclusions about their guilt.

That could be a tragedy almost as great at Meredith Kercher's death.

Al

Allan, the body text of a lot of your posts is immaculately unopinionated - you are clinging to the high ground and discussing shortcomings of a legal system: and then you come out with

"..the possibility that a young girl and young man might have at least a large chunk of their lives taken away from them as the result of fallible people working in an imperfect world reaching incorrect conclusions about their guilt."

I'm sorry, but which planet are you from - or are you (as a self described WASP) - just absolutely sure that it was the Ivory Coast guy? Remember, he hadn't even been arrested - or even mentioned by Sollecito or Knox - by the time those two were thrown in gaol.

As Nicola says, it will be interesting to see what comes of the trial scheduled to start on Dec 3 (though which might be further delayed).

I too find it interesting, and vaguely vulgar, that the victim's family's civil damages suit is running concurrently and in the same court room as the criminal trial. Why am I unsurprised that the UK press has 'supressed' this news, while Patrick Lumumba's (IMO) completely legitimate claim for 'calumny' is regarded as newsworthy? You too have referred to his claim in such a way that you appear to express disapproval - I think that is extremely unfair. If some lying person had caused you to spend time in an uncomfortable gaol for no reason would you not try to use the courts to gain some recompense?

[quote=Charles Phillips;104381]Allan, the body text of a lot of your posts is immaculately unopinionated - you are clinging to the high ground and discussing shortcomings of a legal system: and then you come out with

"..the possibility that a young girl and young man might have at least a large chunk of their lives taken away from them as the result of fallible people working in an imperfect world reaching incorrect conclusions about their guilt."

I'm sorry, but which planet are you from - or are you (as a self described WASP) - just absolutely sure that it was the Ivory Coast guy?[/quote]
Charles, it seems possible that you've forgotten that WASP only means "white, Anglo Saxon, Protestant". The label is applied to lots of people who are not, strictly speaking, qualified to wear it since they are not descended from ancient Germanic peoples or not Protestant, and it is often used in pejorative ways, but WASP is not just a euphemism for "racial bigot". Some fair-skinned people with Protestant religious beliefs descended from Northern European ancestors are indeed racists; many are not and many – probably most – people who are virulent racists are neither white, Anglo Saxon or Protestant.

I am absolutely [I]not[/I] sure that Rudy Guede murdered Meredith Kercher or was involved in her death in any way. I still haven't spent a lot of time researching this, but I understand that his trial was held in secret and the proceedings remain so. If that is the case, then only a privileged group directly involved in the case and those with blind faith in the Italian system of justice can [I]know[/I] at this point that the proceedings were fair and Guede's conviction just.

I believe that Guede says he fled because he thought he would not get a fair trial in Italy due to the fact he is black. My cynicism about the quality of justice in Italy – and how I suspect Italian police and courts are perceived by immigrants of colour – is such that I think that is just about plausible.

By the way, I also think that a detail of Knox's story about what I understand was one of the main items of forensic evidence against Guede – the contents of a toilet bowl – is rather implausible: if I've got the story right, she came home, found the toilet unflushed when she was in the bathroom and just left it there. Who just looks at an soiled toilet in their house and just walks away? (But then, the fact that Guede didn't flush says something about him too...)
[quote=Charles Phillips;104381]Why am I unsurprised that the UK press [views] Patrick Lumumba's (IMO) completely legitimate claim for 'calumny'... as newsworthy? You too have referred to his claim in such a way that you appear to express disapproval - I think that is extremely unfair. If some lying person had caused you to spend time in an uncomfortable gaol for no reason would you not try to use the courts to gain some recompense?[/quote]
I think that Lumumba, like everyone else in this case, deserves justice. For him, it seems to me that the only possible form that might take would be a public apology and some cash. I don't think ill of him for doing what he is; in the same situation, I would be extremely annoyed and I would quite possibly take similar action.

I mentioned the point that he is suing Knox in passing because I was originally going to go on to say that I suspect that means she is being advised by her lawyer to say nothing further about the matter and so can't attempt to justify her action. I understand that she has previously expressed regret and said that she named Lumumba because she felt under great pressure during her interrogation to name [I]someone[/I]. Given what she's said about what went on during the interrogation and given that there's apparently no recording to contradict her allegations, that seems to me just about plausible. Why she chose to name Lumumba in particular is yet another interesting question.

Yet what still seems to me most absurd is that, on the basis of that allegation alone and with apparently no further investigation, Lumumba was locked up for a month. Is he suing the authorities in Perugia for damages as well, or are police and prosecutors immune to such claims under Italian law?

Al

Hi Al,

Read this article by Nicki from the True Justice For Meredith Kercher website. It will help you to understand the Italian legal system.

[B]“They Were Held For A Year Without Even Being Charged!!”[/B]

[B]Posted by [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/member/16/"]Nicki[/URL][/B]

[Below and at bottom: the Italian Supreme Court Of Appeals}
[URL="http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage/1081.pdf"]
[IMG]http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage/1081.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

This header above is perhaps the most mindless and misinformed of the mantras on the case.

[URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/powerpoints_1_a_cbs_trashed_witness_in_fact_looks_very_credible/"][COLOR=#190048]Much[/COLOR][/URL] of the US media and [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_uk_independent_sure_has_drunk_the_kool_aid/"][COLOR=#190048]some[/COLOR][/URL] of the UK media - sometimes enthusiastically, sometimes with reserve - has parroted the claim that Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox were “held without charges” for nearly a year
.
Perhaps bringing to mind the notion of two innocent bystanders to the crime being arbitrarily arrested? Locked up in cockroach-infested jails by abusive police? Led on by an evil prosecutor with endless powers up his sleeve, and nothing at all to slow him down? Lost and forgotten by any judges in the case?

Well, good luck with that one, if it’s designed to sway the process.

It irritates just about everybody here in Italy, the judiciary and the media included. And it is doing the defendants no good at all
.
Negative stereotypes like these really should not be applied to a country that is one of the founding members of the EU, of NATO, and of the European Council, and of the G-7, G-8, OECD, and United Nations (the non-permanent member of the Security Council in 2007-2008).

So for media reporters and commentators, please let us get the facts straight. Once and for all?!

Italian jurisprudence developed from Roman Law. It was shaped in the course of history to become a modern and very fair system. Judicial powers are subjected to a very complex and extremely pervasive set of checks and balances, which really assure maximum protection of every citizen’s rights.

Comparing the US and UK common law system - a model founded on non-written laws and developed through judicial proceedings - with this system which arose from the Roman Law model - based on a written civil code - is really like comparing apples to oranges
.
They were both conceived to protect individual’s rights at a maximum level, while seeking justice for the victims. But with entirely different processes.

One is not necessarily better or worse. But there are legal experts who think the Italian system is distinctly fairer - much more weighted toward the defendants. In the US and the UK the prosecutor usually has to make it through only one pre-trial hoop. In Italy the prosecutor has to make it through a whole row of pre-trial hoops
.
Let’s see what happens in Italy to the legal status of a person who, while considered a “persona informata dei fatti” which means “a person who could yield useful information” in relation to a brutal murder, suddenly becomes a suspect in the eyes of the police
.
If while interviewing the “person who could yield useful information” the suspicion arises that such person could have played an active role in the crime, their status then turns into that of a suspect. The police can then detain that suspect up to 48 hours.

Those 48 hours are the period within which a prosecutor - if he believes that the evidence of guilt is meaningful - can request a validation of the arrest by the Judge of Preliminary Investigation (the GIP).

If the judge agrees with the prosecutor that a serious indication of guilt exists, a warrant for the arrest is issued by the judge, and the person’s detention is thus validated.

Immediately, as soon as the status of “person who could yield useful information” status changes into the status of a suspect, the suspect person has a right to legal counsel. This legal counsel normally immediately appeals for the release of the suspect.

Thus setting in motion what can be a LONG sequel of hearings - for which in US and UK common law there is no such equivalent. Each hearing is headed by a different judge. This judge examines prosecution and defence arguments, and decides if the suspect may be released on any of these bases:
[LIST]
[*]Seriousness of the clues presented by prosecution
[*]Likelihood of repeating a similar crime

[*]Likelihood of fleeing the country during the ongoing investigation

[*]Danger of tampering with, or fabricating evidence
[/LIST]If every one of the defence appeals fails, in front of a number of different judges, in a number of different hearings, and the investigation is officially closed, the suspect then goes on to a pre-trial hearing.

Once again here, yet another judge rules either to clear and release the suspect by rejecting the submitted evidence, or to send the suspect to trial on the basis of that evidence, thus making the charges official.

Now that the charges are official, the judge can decide if the defendant must await trial under house arrest, or in freedom, of if the defendant must remain in jail.

If the judge, based on their knowledge of the crime and the defendants, estimates that the chances of re-offending or fleeing the country are high, the suspect must remain in jail.

So nobody in Italy can be detained without a reasonable suspicion, a long series of judicial hearings (any one of which could set them free) or eventual official charges.

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have not in fact been incarcerated for over one year due to zealous police or a bizarre prosecutor or the complicity of a number of judges throughout the process.

They have been incarcerated because an articulate and balanced process of law has officially and very fairly established there are strong indications that they willingly participated in the vicious murder of Meredith Kercher.

Their own lawyers have put up a tough fight for Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox throughout the judicial process. But they have simply failed to convince the judges throughout that process.

One that actually seems strongly weighted in their favor.

Thanks for that, Harry. However:
[quote=Harry Rag;104414]...
[B]“They Were Held For A Year Without Even Being Charged!!”[/B]

This header above is perhaps the most mindless and misinformed of the mantras on the case.
...
Well, good luck with that one, if it’s designed to sway the process.

It irritates just about everybody here in Italy, the judiciary and the media included. And it is doing the defendants no good at all.[/quote]
The author seems to be saying that the judiciary in Italy is angered by those who believe that Knox and Sollecito are not guilty as (eventually) charged and so are upset that two innocent people (as they see them) have been locked up for nearly a year with not much obvious progress toward a resolution. If that's so, then it sounds like he's saying that the judges hearing the case against Knox and Sollecito will be biased against them because of ill-informed criticism from abroad.

If there's even an iota of truth to any of that, then the Italian justice system is even more of a wonder to behold that I previously suspected.
[quote=Harry Rag;104414]Negative stereotypes like these really should not be applied to a country that is one of the founding members of the EU, of NATO, and of the European Council, and of the G-7, G-8, OECD, and United Nations (the non-permanent member of the Security Council in 2007-2008).[/quote]
Wow! So I guess that means Italian justice is indeed above all criticism and the envy of the world.

The sad fact is that innocent people are locked up (and guilty people walk free) in every other country with the same certificates on the wall as those listed for Italy, but I do understand that some people feel a strong need to believe that Italy is exceptional in one way or another.

Al

Allan, perhaps the aspect of this case which you haven't grasped if you are reading the UK/US press, is that Ms Knox has a team of American ambulance chasers on her case who assume that Italian justice is crap, and that they can influence or buy the judges, 'cos that's what happens in Italy - a third world country.

Not unnaturally, the Italian serious press is somewhat anguished about this approach, which is, of course, backed up with presspacks which they are expected to swallow wholesale. The judges are equally pissed off.

I completely concur with Harry's opinon that it isn't doing the defendants any good at all.

Hi Al,

I'm sure sure there have been miscarriages of justice in every country. You're not revealing some hitherto unknown truth by making that point.

I'm writing specifically about the Meredith Kercher case and not the entire legal history of every country in the world. I've been mightily impressed with the Italian investigation into Meredith's murder.

Renato Biondo provided independent confirmation that the forensic investigation was carried out correctly, following international protocol, and that the findings are accurate and reliable.

I think it's very wrong that the parents of the prime murder suspect are the main sources for so many pieces about the case. This has meant that some key facts have been distorted and the general public have been given the impression that Amanda Knox is the victim of police corruption and incompetence. The media have a duty to report objectively and not be used as vehicles for the Amanda Knox PR campaign. I can't recall a similar case where there has been such a concerted effort to undermine a criminal investigation and discredit the evidence.

Cheers,

Harry

Hi Al,

Here's a brilliant post by Fast Pete on the True Justice For Meredith Kercher website about the latest development in the case:

[B]Does Prominent Knox Supporter Face Uphill Task?[/B]

[B]Posted by [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/member/3/"]Fast Pete[/URL][/B]

[click for larger images]
[URL="http://galaxyrising.com/ee/images/photoshows/perugia/2001.pdf"][IMG]http://galaxyrising.com/ee/images/photoshows/perugia/2001.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Judge Michael Heavey is a Superior Court judge in King County, Washington State, whose daughter was at school with Amanda Knox.
He is said to be popular and fair and someone you might want to have on your side in a fight. We wonder, however, if he is receiving the best possible advice on the case.
Last week Judge Heavey was quoted by the Seattle PI’s [URL="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/389777_knox28.html"]Levi Pulkkinen[/URL] as saying: [INDENT]“It borders on the diabolical… To me, it just shows (prosecutors) don’t care whether she’s guilty or innocent. They just believe Amanda needs to be convicted."…
Heavey [contends] Guede killed Kercher while Knox was staying the night at Sollecito’s home. [He views] Knox’s contradictory statements to police—claims that she “heard Meredith screaming” as she was killed—as the products of a rough overnight interrogation by Italian police...”
“When you have a heinous crime and a demonized defendant, with very little evidence, you can get a bad conviction. I haven’t been sure of too much in my life, but I’m totally convinced that she’s innocent.”
[/INDENT]Here are just some of the problems that are now undercutting an adversarial stance against the Italian investigators, prosecutors and judges.

[LIST]
[*]Most of [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/the_huge_problem_with_the_there_is_no_evidence_mantra/"]the 10,000 pages of evidence[/URL] (now being added-to by [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/so_the_trial_date_is_postponed_now_its_16_january/"]new witnesses[/URL]) have not yet been publicly revealed. They will finally emerge during the trial which will start in Perugia on 16 January. Much of the forensic and other evidence has been independently verified by experts unconnected to the investigation.
[*]No single piece of the evidence already in the public domain has ever conclusively been found to be falsified. Several US experts have [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/powerpoints_1_a_cbs_trashed_witness_in_fact_looks_very_credible/"]a rather hapless record[/URL] in their attempts to demonstrate that the police and prosecutors got it all wrong. None seem to have made any recent statements on cable news or in the newspapers that they still stand by their original claims.
[*]The defense lawyers who have actually been through the evidence seem to have become a lot more taciturn, and none of them - not one - has subsequently claimed that this is a railroading, or a frame-up, or the fabrication of a prosecutor desperate for a conviction. (As a precaution against precisely this, there are actually two prosecutors)
[*]Only a small part of the evidence - the autopsy, the bedroom evidence, and the neighbor who heard a scream in the night and then people running - was sufficient to result in a 30-year sentence for Rudy Guede. The judge in his case, [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/wow_ground_really_disappearing_from_under_knox_sollecito_defense/"]in explaining the judgment,[/URL] remarked that it was impossible for Guede to have acted alone in the murder of Meredith, in part due to the huge number of wounds on the body.
[*]The additional evidence that did not even need to be taken into account in Guede’s case apparently includes computer and mobile phone activities, statements of a large number of other witness, a knife that may be the murder weapon found hidden in a cardboard box, post-crime defendant statements and behaviors, and the statements of those close to the defendants at the time.
[*]And there might have been even more evidence. It appears that the crime scene may have been manipulated after the murder to make it look like a sole-perpetrator crime. Finger-prints, footprints, other marks, and blood evidence seem to have been removed - although much still shows up under luminol. It seems [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/powerpoints_trace_evidence_seems_to_confirm_more_than_one_perpetrator_at_sc/"]to indicate three perpetrators[/URL] at the crime scene.
[*]Amanda Knox actually [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/lies_damned_lies_and_more_damned_lies/"]placed herself under suspicion[/URL] in her very first encounter with the police. She changed her alibi several times subsequently, apparently attempting to coincide it with Sollecito’s. The notion that she was forced into a confession after hours and hours of questioning is now generally discredited, and her own lawyers have not claimed this or lodged any complaint.
[*]Amanda Knox indicated not only in an interview statement, later disqualified, but also in a written statement, still in evidence, that Patrick Lumumba was the murderer. Lumumba, [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/collateral_damage/"]her kindly employer,[/URL] was in fact at the bar he owned that night, and in view of the harm done by this apparent frame-up attempt, the prosecution has charged Amanda Knox with slander.
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The biggest problem of all for those claiming a frame-up or an over-zealous rush to prosecution is [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/they_were_held_for_a_year_without_even_being_charged/"]the extreme caution of the Italian system.[/URL] The Italian judicial review process prior to trial seems to be at least three or four times more elaborate, careful, cautious, and fair to a suspect than, for example, normal U.S. processes.
The evidence in the case has already made it through a number of hoops. And repeatedly the various judges in what is a very extensive process, after days of reading and careful consideration, have verified that the evidence against the defendants is, in fact, very strong.
It is still possible that everybody has got it terribly wrong. But so far, nobody seems to be coming [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/does_the_defense_campaign_really_have_any_plan_b/"]anywhere close to that scenario.[/URL]
Posted by [URL="http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/member/3/"]Fast Pete[/URL] on 12/01 at 08:41 AM in
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