In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
secession
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 12/10/2008 - 10:01In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=Caesar;105219]Greetings,
I hope the mere mention of this issue will not insult anyone, for this is only a personal research. I still know little of the matter and I'm counting on you to enlighten me as far as you can. Moreover, it is even possible that it turns out to be an interesting debate. Consider it for a second. :smile:
Well, I'm into the subject of secessions, when and where they are fit or not.
I have conducted some research on some well-known current issues across Europe, namingly Catalonia, Galicia, Basque Country, Bavaria, Scotland, Wales, Chechnya, Kosovo, Serbia and... Well, turns out that Italy also seems to be a case of argument between North and South due to their... disparities.
So if I may be so bold as to ask you:
[I]
What do you think about seceding North from South or vice-versa?[/I][/quote]
having lived most of my life in this country and modestly knowing it well from north to south i sincerely believe there is no risk of secession in this country.As with other places you have mentioned there are and probably always will be minor provinces/ethnic groups etc who make some noise without it becoming conclusive.
Having said that and being a believer in the "united states of Europe" i find anachronistic ,in the context of the union these instances which would be totally reabsorbed were we to one day achieve a united federal europe.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Living near the "border" between north and south and having visited both areas many times there are obvious differences in these two areas. Historically during the Risorgimento the north, under Garibaldi, invaded the south. Some histories point out that the Piedmontese did not want to unify the entire peninsula and Garibaldi had once again acted beyond their wishes. Some elements of the south also saw Garibaldi's forces as invaders and in the 1860's the briganti were unified under leaders such as Crocco to fight what they considered an occupation by the Piedmontese forces.
Even after 140+ years in the US you will hear people in the southern states refer to the American Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression". Sometimes these differences can linger for many generations.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Slightly off topic but perhaps related, I was sent details (from another expats site) this morning telling me where the best place to live in Italy was. [url=http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-12-08_108292645.html]ANSA.it - News in English - Siena tops quality- of- life charts[/url]
That's a matter of opinion, but for full details (it's a 6mb download), you must register at Italia oggi, then go to documents to download the report.
1 SIENA 1 1000,00 6
2 TRENTO 1 944,32 2
3 BOLZANO 1 894,03 1
4 AOSTA 1 876,57 12
5 RAVENNA 1 854,17 8
6 MANTOVA 1 825,66 3
7 MODENA 1 810,73 5
8 FIRENZE 1 801,40 7
9 PARMA 1 801,13 13
10 VICENZA 1 776,30 15
11 VERONA 1 773,68 22
12 ROVIGO 1 768,11 17
13 PADOVA 1 765,11 23
14 BELLUNO 1 744,52 9
15 REGGIO EMILIA 1 732,36 11
16 SONDRIO 1 728,77 20
17 CUNEO 1 722,47 18
18 GROSSETO 1 720,14 32
19 FORLI 1 719,87 36
20 PERUGIA 1 700,92 46
21 BOLOGNA 1 698,59 4
22 FERRARA 1 686,76 27
23 PISA 2 665,05 19
24 PIACENZA 2 656,96 10
25 PORDENONE 2 647,98 25
26 RIMINI 2 646,76 44
27 UDINE 2 638,38 24
28 CREMONA 2 633,55 30
29 ROMA 2 630,12 58
30 NOVARA 2 623,65 26
31 MILANO 2 619,21 29
32 PESARO E URBINO 2 591,61 43
33 ANCONA 2 586,81 52
34 BRESCIA 2 584,08 39
35 LECCO 2 579,13 35
36 TREVISO 2 578,11 21
37 BIELLA 2 556,07 16
38 GORIZIA 2 553,11 42
39 VENEZIA 2 540,01 14
40 ALESSANDRIA 2 531,50 45
41 CAMPOBASSO 2 526,09 68
42 TRIESTE 2 526,01 50
43 VARESE 2 525,10 57
44 AREZZO 2 513,31 41
45 LUCCA 2 495,92 31
46 MACERATA 2 488,74 48
47 ASCOLI PICENO 2 476,34 34
48 BARI 2 472,99 84
49 LA SPEZIA 3 415,06 62
50 TORINO 3 414,17 38
51 SAVONA 3 403,57 37
52 PESCARA 3 402,43 71
53 VERBANO-CUSIO-OSSOLA 3 399,80 49
54 BERGAMO 3 398,73 47
55 COMO 3 397,73 40
56 NUORO 3 395,84 64
57 FOGGIA 3 377,75 80
58 CATANZARO 3 374,75 95
59 CHIETI 3 368,07 82
60 CATANIA 3 368,00 75
61 TERNI 3 362,41 55
62 VERCELLI 3 355,39 54
63 PAVIA 3 354,30 70
64 ASTI 3 347,49 33
65 LIVORNO 3 341,82 51
66 MESSINA 3 340,90 87
67 MATERA 3 338,20 81
68 CAGLIARI 3 335,98 61
69 POTENZA 3 327,29 73
70 LATINA 3 313,03 69
71 SASSARI 3 306,72 67
72 RIETI 3 305,81 72
73 VIBO VALENTIA 3 304,99 92
74 PRATO 3 298,06 63
75 RAGUSA 3 293,94 77
76 PISTOIA 3 290,30 53
77 GENOVA 3 288,92 56
78 BENEVENTO 3 287,12 100
79 ISERNIA 3 277,36 103
80 CALTANISSETTA 3 276,95 97
81 LECCE 3 272,03 66
82 L'AQUILA 3 269,87 89
83 CASERTA 3 267,79 93
84 LODI 3 265,89 28
85 IMPERIA 4 226,71 59
86 CROTONE 4 213,57 101
87 VITERBO 4 205,46 65
88 TERAMO 4 200,79 79
89 FROSINONE 4 195,58 86
90 REGGIO CALABRIA 4 179,57 96
91 SALERNO 4 153,85 83
92 BRINDISI 4 142,97 76
93 PALERMO 4 141,00 91
94 ORISTANO 4 138,54 88
95 TRAPANI 4 137,50 85
96 AVELLINO 4 137,37 74
97 SIRACUSA 4 133,52 78
98 MASSA-CARRARA 4 129,73 60
99 COSENZA 4 125,92 90
100 TARANTO 4 80,92 99
101 NAPOLI 4 69,99 102
102 ENNA 4 38,06 94
103 AGRIGENTO 4 0,00 98
Here is the data by region:
Trentino Alto Adige 919,18
Valle d'Aosta 876,57
Emilia-Romagna 734,15
Veneto 706,55
Friuli Venezia Giulia 591,37
Lombardia 537,74
Marche 535,88
Umbria 531,67
Toscana 525,57
Piemonte 493,82
Molise 401,73
Liguria 333,57
Basilicata 332,57
Lazio 330,00
Abruzzo 310,29
Sardegna 294,27
Puglia 269,33
Calabria 239,76
Sicilia 192,21
Campania 183,22
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks for the attention!
I knew Italy's regions have a lot of disparities, you need just take a look at how many languages are spoken throughout the peninsula:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Languages_spoken_in_Italy.svg]Image:Languages spoken in Italy.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
Oh... I wonder if there are differences concerning political leanings as well, as in some party or person or ideology being more common in some region...
For instance, should there be a secession, Berlusconi would be prime minister of North Italy and Prodi would be prime minister of South Italy..?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Oh no Berlusconi would certainly be in control in Sicilia!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Or perhaps Sicily would prefer to be again a separate Kingdom and here is the lawful heir:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infante_Carlos,_Duke_of_Calabria]Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
There is a contender.... but not quite sure about his claim.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I believe some examples of secession MAY result in more representative and democratic states for its citizens, but there's also a great risk of creating more barriers to trade and people's movement. But then again, in the context of the European Union I don't think it will matter some day.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Noble Im intrigued - why would Berlusconi be in control in Sicilia?
Historically Sicily is much more likely to vote in the UDC - it all depends on who is giving the large public contracts to whom!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Exactly....and you live there ram, so will know how Sig. B has been warmly credited for the prosperity of Sicily in recent years.
(I would add I love the island too).
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I thought for a moment this was a new harry potter book!
If one considers the length time and energy that went into the unification of Italy,and the very fact that both aosta and tento aldige are autonomous regions. Then there is more chance on Italy demanding the region of istra, than any north south divide !
Clearly some take regional differences and tongues as some sort of divide!
I hear that the men of York are up in arms and Cornwall wants independents too! Newcastle wants to be in Scotland, and now the south east region of England realises how much better off they would be,without the rest of Britain dragging it down!
But tomorrow Italy will still be Italy,as it will be the day after that after that after that!!!!!!!!!!!
hi
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 03/19/2009 - 04:56In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I have conducted some research on some well-known current issues across Europe, namingly Catalonia, Galicia, Basque Country, Bavaria, Scotland, Wales, Chechnya, Kosovo, Serbia and... Well, turns out that Italy also seems to be a case of argument between North and South due to their... disparities.
Lisa11
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
At least it’s signed!
So it has some original content:bigergrin:
There has been talks about North-South secession practically since Unification. So it is a long story....
As a Basque, I think I know a bit about those problems. Personally, I am against secession which is many times manipulated for political gains only. I believe in Federal governments with a large degree of autonomy for regions and respect and conservation of their cultural heritage. But I must add that each case has its own particularities and it is difficult to generalize.