11715 The Man's a Genius

Ah but.... as the saying goes, di Carnevale ogni scherzo vale (during Carnival any joke is allowed).

Listen - I don't like, admire [I]or [/I]respect that nasty little poisoned gnome - but that statement was in fact taken out of context...

He actually said he had never insulted anyone, and that he was the one, who over a long period had been insulted by everyone - the world media, other politicians etc. etc. (my heart bleeds for him :rollingeyes: - NOT) and that [U][B]they[/B][/U] had compared [U][B]him[/B][/U] to Hitler, to Mussolini and [I]even to that Argentinian Dictator who opened the aeroplane door and told the people 'It's a nice day - go out[/I]side and play'!

But alas, despite Veltroni's resignation, Berla's best hope of staying in power, and making President in 2012, is if he continues to pay 'lip service' to the extreme far right policies and vigilante mentality of the Lega Nord and Bossi. The problem is 'he' tells everyone he'll cut their taxes (which he has done) despite the fact that this could over time make Italy bankrupt. While the 'left' continue to say to the people that they've got to [I]stop avoiding their taxes[/I] and pay their way...

Not difficult to guess who's going to get the popular vote - that's right 'The Gnome' and his 'Rent-A-Mob' pals!

No, no - he is known as the "Poisoned Dwarf" Carole - there is a lot of difference between a Gnome and a Dwarf and we must all strive for absolute accuracy on the forum. :bigergrin:

Removed to [url]www.italiauncovered.co.uk[/url]

Yes that may be true, but he's got some ideas and he's thrashing them out with Gord today. Can't wait. :eeeek:

[url=http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE51H77220090218]World leaders far from solution to crisis says Italy PM | Reuters[/url]

[quote=Noble;111450]Ah but.... as the saying goes, di Carnevale ogni scherzo vale (during Carnival any joke is allowed).[/quote]

And trouble is he's in Carnevale 365 x 24/7

[quote=juliancoll;111455]No, no - he is known as the "Poisoned Dwarf" Carole - there is a lot of difference between a Gnome and a Dwarf and we must all strive for absolute accuracy on the forum.[/quote]

:reallyembarrassed: Of course - you are quite right it [I]should[/I] be 'dwarf'. What ever was I thinking of? I really must pay more attention to the details of my posts in future
(*slap wrist*)

[B]Dwarf =[/B]
[IMG]http://www.transpapers.com/wps/240x320/Cartoons/Bashful.png[/IMG]

[B]Gnome = [/B]
[IMG]http://www.4scapes.com/image/T/kVSMNxWmJg.jpg[/IMG]

They don't look a lot different to me JC - but I will of course, without hesitation, bow to your superior knowledge on the matter of gnomes, dwarves and trolls....

:notworthy:

And the Dwarf is a more correct shade of orange:bigergrin:

You know what they say.. so I've joined Noma in "Grazieing" your post Carole - wouldn't want him to feel he had to fend off the Trolls and Hobgoblins all by himself!

Ready when you are Noma. :bigergrin:

[CENTER][ATTACH]2475[/ATTACH][/CENTER]

I think that you all should have more respect. If SB was in fact a dwaft (more correctly a person of restricted growth) then this would be disresepectful enough. As things stand, he is, in fact the democratically elected leader of Italy. A country in which many of you are guests !

You are absolutely right Charlie boy - but I'm not a guest - so it's OK for me to say he is known as the "Poisoned Dwarf" - which actually is a fact.

Being ever-so PC myself, I've had to Google "dwaft" to make sure I'm up to date on the correct terms. But it looks like it was just a typo. I have to say that I don't see why being "democratically elected" entitles you to respect. In fact I reckon a healthy disrespect is vital for a healthy democracy

Surely one of the joys of a democracy is that within limits of decency and accuracy you can speak your mind freely. Sometimes irreverently too for effect. Respect must be earned. SB was elected to do a job, be a leader and therefore be a model citizen who chooses his words wisely. He clearly has difficulty with this.

I fully accept that many will judge him as doing a great job and this forum is available for those views to be aired too.

As Italy's top politician he is in the public domain and so it is perfectly acceptable for him to be the subject of public criticism as well as public praise.

I was not born in Italy, but live in Italy full time and have made it my home, work here, pay taxes in Italy and am subject to the laws of Italy. I don't view myself as a guest though. I am shortly to vote in the Euro elections for an Italian candidate and once I've lived here long enough may well take up citizenship.

The difficulty that some might have in accepting this sort of post in a forum that is "...dedicated to lovers of all thigns (sic) Italian." is that mindless morons* can post defamatory remarks about the country's leadership and have them largely unchallenged. This thread in particular is founded on an inaccurate interpretation of what Berlusconi said, as one of the posters has acknowleged, but that doesn't matter...

The demonisation of right of centre politicians is a 'skill' mastered by those of the left, with Guardian readers at their forefront from Britain. Apart from the fact that 'Poisoned Dwarf' is the name of celtic band :[URL="http://poisoneddwarf.com/"][SIZE=2]http://poisoneddwarf.com/[/SIZE][/URL] if a dwarf has been poisoned it would rather beg the question, "by whom?" and "what were the consequences?" If in fact it is 'poison dwarf' that is meant -
[I]"A selfish, untrustworthy, deeply obnoxious or evil person of diminutive size, whose ostensibly unthreatening appearance allows them to fulfil their predisposition for causing unprovoked pain and suffering in an under-hand manner for anyone who has the misfortune to strike-up a friendship them."[/I]
as one urban dictionary has it in a description of a man's wife, then the connotations are actually more 'sinister' (interesting word) as the most well known figure from recent history to be given that epithet was this man:

[I]"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."[/I] -Joseph Goebbels "The Poison Dwarf"
(Taken from the Holocaust Education Archive Research Team webpage)

Which only serves to reinforce the point that Berlusconi was making that he has been regularly compared to the most evil people in recent history. If that is what is the intention of his critics, then it's as well that we know their full agenda.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4][COLOR=#333333][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

*offensive and derogatory term used to balance the indiscriminate use of 'poison(ed) dwarf'

Nah, "the most well known figure from recent history to be given that epithet " was Lucy Ewing.

[quote]
Nah, "the most well known figure from recent history to be given that epithet " was Lucy Ewing.
[/quote]

If you got that information first hand you'll enjoy this:

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/wogan/]BBC - Radio - Podcasts - Wake Up To Wogan[/url]

Not far off from being a contemporary of Lucy Ewing, it is Jackie Stewart (famous Scottish racing driver) who comes to my mind whenever anybody mentions the poison dwarf! I think it was quite a well known epithet, and I don't think he minded very much - any publicity being good publicity.

[quote]By barn_elms:"....The difficulty that some might have in accepting this sort of post in a forum that is "...dedicated to lovers of all thigns (sic) Italian." is that mindless morons* can post defamatory remarks about the country's leadership and have them largely unchallenged. This thread in particular is founded on an inaccurate interpretation of what Berlusconi said, as one of the posters has acknowleged, but that doesn't matter...[/quote]

Yes that was me who translated his words...but what he [U][I]didn't[/I][/U] say was that HE makes a habit of comparing others to concentration camp guards, dictators, and of manipulating the laws of his own country to ensure that any legal proceedings against him for fraud and corruption (among countless other 'peccati), are put in place to ensure his freedom from prosecution.

This article [B][URL="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5188289.ece"]Silvio Berlusconi: Yes, yes, yes, Prime Minister - Times Online[/URL][/B] from the Sunday Times (Originally published in the November 3, 2008 issue of The New Yorker) shows clearly the attitude that this man has bought to Italian politics over a number of years. It illustrates behaviours, that are a terrible indictment against the 'civilized' society of this country, by a man who can only be described as a Piosoned Dwarf! (by a *mindless moron* like me - presumably). And quite frankly that dictionary explanation of a 'Poisoned Dwarf' that you posted above - fits this man to a 'T'... He's all that plus a bit more...

I'm [U]not[/U] going to apologise for calling him that - he [U]is[/U] only 5' 5" tall and there are just too many well documented instances of his irrational behaviour that leaves much to be desired to substanciate the 'poisoned' bit. But at the end of the day the Italian electorate chose him and his party (by a whisker) because they were the best of the awful bunch that were on offer. The sadness of this situation is the attitude of those who are now keeping him in power to promote their own nasty/wicked ends!

[quote=barn_elms;112026]If you got that information first hand you'll enjoy this:

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/wogan/]BBC - Radio - Podcasts - Wake Up To Wogan[/url][/quote]

Ah - Terry - I'd forgive him almost anything, though I have sneaking suspicion that he would approve of SB

Carole, why should you even consider apologising for calling the "poisoned dwarf" a poisoned dwarf anyway? This is the nickname he has been given by Italians in Italy - some use it affectionately - some don't. Whichever way you (or anyone else) choose to use it would be considered fair game and par for the course - we all know Italy isn't as politically correct as other places (thank God!) and if Italians choose to call him a poisoned dwarf - who are we to argue?

Many people are quite fond of Trolls, Gremlins and a little Goblin anyway. :bigergrin:

[quote]
Ah - Terry - I'd forgive him almost anything, though I have sneaking suspicion that he would approve of SB
[/quote]

I think you're right on both counts. We'll miss him when he's gone, same with SB...

Either way I hope SB is not around (in office) for as many years as TW has kept us "entertained".

[quote]We'll miss him when he's gone, same with SB...[/quote]
You mean [I]you'll[/I] miss SB when he's gone. Please don't presume to speak for the rest of us.

SB is an embarrassment. His "sense of humour", tact and diplomacy are appalling to say the least; however, he was voted in by the Italian people so they will have to put up with him until the end of his office term. Whether they vote for him again, or not, is something that they will also have to decide. There is an old Argentinian saying, quite appropriate given the particular circumstances, that goes like this: "No se queje del espejo quien tiene la cara fea", which can be translated as "Don't blame the mirror if you have an ugly face".

There's also a rather appropriate Arabic saying that would fit in here quite well - "A camel never sees its own hump".

[quote=Nielo;112172]And why do you presume the right to speak for ‘the rest of us’?

Speak for yourself alone! :smile:[/quote]
I most definitely am not speaking for those of us who support Berlusconi, Pdl and Lega Nord. If you count yourself with that lot, you are hereby excluded from my "us" (but included in barn_elm's "we").:smile:

Seems Berlusconi aint the only "poisoned dwarf" around.

[quote=Carole B;112086]But alas, despite Veltroni's resignation, Berla's best hope of staying in power, and making President in 2012, is if he continues to pay 'lip service' to the extreme far right policies and vigilante mentality of the Lega Nord and Bossi. [/quote]
Brava Carole!

[quote=Nielo;112218]... the fact that you attempt to put me in a ‘camp’ is not.[/quote]
You may have overlooked the word "If" in
"If you count yourself with that lot, you are hereby excluded from my "us" (but included in barn_elm's "we")."
You may have also missed the :smile:

[quote=Noma;112254]You may have overlooked the word "If" in
"If you count yourself with that lot, you are hereby excluded from my "us" (but included in barn_elm's "we")."
You may have also missed the :smile:[/quote]

Well, forgive me for being possibly the 'thickest plank' in the pile, but I DID notice the "IF", the "US" and your :smile:, [B][U][I]and[/I][/U][/B] I noticed you said "Brava" to an excerpt from one of my posts on the Silvio Berlusconi vs Poisoned Dwarf question...

Yet I still feel like the 'thickest plank' because despite reading, and [I]re-reading[/I], your words on this matter I'm still not certain where your support lies or which camp is yours! :reallyembarrassed:

Do you lean to the left and are saying you feel an abhorrence for the way SB is courting the Lega (and their nasty policies) purely to further his own ends?

[B]OR[/B]

Are you leaning to the extreme right and saying you fully support 'il Sig. Nano Velenoso', his bed fellows and thier policies?

Will you - or some equally kind and patient soul PLEASE explain 'where you're coming from' or just shoot me and put me out of my misery. I just can't be doing with all this confusion.

(Oh and BTW - just in case I've not made MY stance quite clear on this question...

"I DON'T like Berusconi OR Bossi.
I have no respect for one because he continuously manipulates the law and the people to assist his own ambitious dreams and to cover his illegal/corrupt actions.

And I DESPISE the other for his dream of partitioning Italy and creating a Neo-Fascist [I]racist[/I] regime to control the (his) new state (Padania) !"

[quote=Carole B;112278]

Do you lean to the left and are saying you feel an abhorrence for the way SB is courting the Lega (and their nasty policies) purely to further his own ends?[/quote]
SI!
[quote]
[B]OR[/B]

Are you leaning to the extreme right and saying you fully support 'il Sig. Nano Velenoso', his bed fellows and thier policies?
[/quote]
Oh hell no!

[quote]"I DON'T like Berusconi OR Bossi.
I have no respect for one because he continuously manipulates the law and the people to assist his own ambitious dreams and to cover his illegal/corrupt actions.

And I DESPISE the other for his dream of partitioning Italy and creating a Neo-Fascist [I]racist[/I] regime to control the (his) new state (Padania) !"[/quote]
SI! to both!
I'm with you Carole B. A pox upon Berlusconi, Lega Nord and Alleanza Nazionale!

he's a pratt. but if we don't take him seriously he'll make us expats pay stupid taxes or kick us out.

[quote=Flux;112506]he's a pratt. but if we don't take him seriously he'll make us expats pay stupid taxes or kick us out.[/quote]
Too late- the anti-immigrant taxes in the security package have already passed the senate and the camera will soon finish rubber stamping them. Prepare to pay up.

Any chance of an official link on that please Noma - sounds ominous.

[url=http://www.camera.it/_dati/leg16/lavori/schedela/apriTelecomando_wai.asp?codice=16PDL0019410]PDL 2180[/url]

Thanks. My Italian may well be up to the task, but there's no way I'm wading through that lot. Any chance you could highlight which section the relevant info is in. :smile:

[quote=Ghianda;112655]Thanks. My Italian may well be up to the task, but there's no way I'm wading through that lot. Any chance you could highlight which section the relevant info is in. :smile:[/quote]
Here's an article about it:
[url=http://www.meltingpot.org/articolo13609.html]MP - Pacchetto sicurezza - In discussione il ddl 733. Ecco cosa prevede[/url]