11787 Rules & Regulations on preparing food

100% with you on this. Sounds like you've crunched the same paper mountain as we did. I must say that I found ANBBA [URL="http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1W1GFRD_en&q=anbba&aq=f"]anbba - Google Search[/URL] helpful in the early days in understanding what was required by our region.

In the zillions of words in small print i remember chuckling at the guidance offered on what it is that Germans want for breakfast and what it is that English want, and that as an excepton to the rule you could offer egg and bacon:bigergrin:

As you say Russ, food hygiene is important but I too would guess that a significant proportion of small family run places have "none of the required boxes ticked". That said, I have seldom had any "tummy trouble" here after meals out. Couldn't say the same about nights out in the UK.:nah:

We've had guests (pre-booked) who on arrival have asked if they can go to the loo - not because they want to, but simply to check out whether we are clean enough - can't blame them. :yes:

And finally, just in case anyone in the UK is feeling smug, here is the shocking finding of a survey of 2002 amongst catering staff in the UK [B]39% admit to not washing their hands after going to the loo at work[/B]:eeeek: [URL="http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2002/oct/97153"]Food Standards Agency - One in three caterers don't wash hands after using lavatory, survey shows[/URL]

[quote=Russ;112260]Italy has the some of the highest standards regarding food hygiene and any establishment looking to provide food for others to consume, faces an onslaught of rules, regulations, requirements, certificates and inspections, no matter how large or small the establishment.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for high standards when it comes to food hygiene, but there is an inconsistency across the regions of Italy as to what can and cannot be provided to customers.

In our business, we are constrained by the rules of the region and abide by them. Others it seems, have a complete disregard for the rules and no doubt benefit from providing wonderful local cuisine and produce, as this makes for the whole experience of being in Italy.

However, I am sure if they were caught, they'd be closed down and fined, but thinking of a worse situation, such as a food poisoning outbreak (if Heston can, anyone can!), the repercussions could be a lot worse. Failing to comply with food hygiene regs, would in all liklihood invalidate any insurance (if indeed they have any), leaving the owner facing the potential of being sued. Seeing that an increasing number of Americans are now visiting our area, I would be doubly concerned about this.

Some regions are so strict that you cannot even provide fresh cornetti in the morning from the local baker, but have to provide them pre-made and in vacuum sealed bags! Yuk. Same goes for yoghurt having to be in sealed pots.

On the other hand some regions appear much more relaxed, allowing the provision of fresh home made jams, bread, cakes, pasta etc and in some cases classes on how to make them.

Whilst we were happy to go down the road of getting all the appropriate health & safety certificates, taking courses and being inspected, we drew the line at having to install a restaurant standard kitchen, with stainless steel worktops, fronts, multiple fridges and freezers.

I know there are a number of us here from different regions running small b & b's and similar and would be interested to hear your views.[/quote]

Here B&B'S are only allowed to provide breakfasts which consist in industrially(officially) produced foodstuffs with boxes jars whatever all traceable origin,expiry dates etc they are not allowed to provide for example home made jams/conserves etc because it is presumed that a b&b will not have the health requisites (a kitchen is not sufficient) and for example a food prearation room (with it's own special requirements like external electrics/2 metre high tiling rounded corners etc etc)They are not allowed to produce food meals etc from fresh or conserved foodstuffs neither is it permitted to supply alcoholic drinks,wines etc.We produce for example our own jams and conserves in very strict conditions,we have to have these tested every three months by a laboratory who on the basis of their bacteriological analysis extrapolate the expiry dates for these products which have along with ingredients production date have to be included on the obbligatory labelling of the same.we are allowed to freeze some fresh foodstuffs we produce because we have a chill blaster which permits us to bring down the temperature of foodstuffs to a sufficiently low temperature to be able to put them in the freezer provided that again the labelling is conforming and again expiry dates respected these foodstuffs have to be conserved seperately amongst them selves so we have a huge number of fridges and freezers for different things.In the kitchen we are under the H.A.C.C.P regime all the cleaning activities are catalogued and registered some cleaning like windows is weekly,floors and all surfaces is after every use and every day,HACCP,is IDENTICAL to the health and safety regime in a uk or italian hospital and in theory to any restaurant/hotel.When the health inspectors come they take swabs off corners of surfaces,angles etc of both kitchen and food prep room,check out fridges/freezers/chill blaster/register of haccp register/results of lab analysis/results of lab analysis of drinking water from tap (obbligatory every 3 months),
our own libretti sanitari and that of our kitchen worker,check out the dry food dispensers etc etc etc.etc Whilst i'm all in favour of health controls i consider this rather draconian for the size/importance of our small enterprise but we have gone the whole way now we have to live with it.The huge costs incurred by a sizeable industrial kitchen,6 ventilated refridgerators,3 large freezers,a chill blaster,and a full size walk in cold room (see shining) are hardly ammortisized by the dimension of our business.i'm also aware that many places i know of are probably practicing only very few of the norms and are definitely below legal levels of health control there is nothing i can do about it (except sour grapes)
and feeling proud of the excellent results of all of our health inspections ,failure can lead to tremendous fines however or even closure.in any case not only are the "installation " costs very high but maintaing all these rules is a heavy cost too just our private lab costs are around euro 1.500 per annum.... thats all.

Thanks Sebasiano - I think that says it all!

Would any other regions like to comment? We spent some time in a B&B in Puglia a couple of years ago and the rules appeared to be very different down there.

[quote=Russ;112346]Thanks Sebasiano - I think that says it all!

Would any other regions like to comment? We spent some time in a B&B in Puglia a couple of years ago and the rules appeared to be very different down there.[/quote]

oh...i forgot to add that the same "stick" does not seem to apply to the chinese and the (in)famous DONAR KEBAB places ,i saw a place in the Tottenham court road a few metres from the road with this sort of open window in which one of those disgusting things on a spit was going round withall these buses blasting diesel out next to it the rest was as bad too (health inspection any one!!!!) or in milano with spring rolls presided by roaches..and rats in the kitchen.....but here on my "remote" hillside with natural clean foods the health police mass like gestapo...

Come on Seb - have a heart! If you were one of the Gestapo - oops, I mean Environmental Health Officers in Italy, which place would you rather inspect? A filthy downtown flea pit infested with scarrafone e zoccole - or a fresh clean remote hillside Agri were there was at least a chance of having a taste of something fresh and wasting a pleasant couple of hours of the working day? Be reasonable man! :bigergrin:

We went to a couple of lovely B & B places in Liguria and things were different there, as well. Everything home made and lovely but we did not have the feeling that there were too many restrictions imposed on the owners. We also had our little dog with us and there were no problems with that. She could come into the dining room to have breakfast with us and she was given some tasty morsels as well. Thoughtful people! I wonder what a health officer would say......

Sadly Gala here is what the health officer would quote [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article4116332.ece]Brussels orders dogs out of B&B kitchens -Times Online[/url]

It all makes you wonder how the hell we have managed to survie all these years. I can remeber eating mud, insects and dio knows what as a child - and as Sebastiano rightly says some pretty dodgilly prepared food in city centres. But I'm still here.

Homogenised, pastuerised, sterilised, and pre-packed is food for astronuauts, not for people with both feet on the ground ( and the four feet of their dog sat next to them).

Hi
We're not a b&b but self catering but I stopped doing 'arrival suppers' a couple of years ago because of the food hygiene regs re: industrial kitchen etc. It was just too complicated for a small business. A friend has a b & b here in Tuscany and she said that 'breakfast products' have to be industrial products,i.e. wrapped and dated as Sebastiano said in above post. That is so sad when there is so much wonderful food that the guests could enjoy. Does anyone know if it is ok to put a bottle of prosecco in the fridge as an arrival 'gift'. It's not being sold as such and obviously still sealed.
Like Gala, I visited a great b & b in Liguria last year and all the jams etc. were homemade, as were the cakes etc. the same for a b& b we stayed in near Syracusa the year before.

The funny thing about all these rules and regs is that we've been told by the officials that it is perfectly in order for us to invite whoever we like into our "quarters" and provide food and drink prepared by us, as we would with any family or friends.

The only downside with this is that we wouldn't be able to charge them for the privelege!:eerr:

Lunatics and asylums eh?

Everything has got so pathetic with health regulations in Europe. We have eaten on roadside stalls in Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore and in many other countries. Imagine eating with locals where the plates are washed from a hosepipe of cold water. We were in Florence a few years ago and some Americans sitting at the same table had to wipe everything down ( forks, knives & plates ) .... how does the body cope with total sterility. No offence to any of the Americans here, but it just seemed OTT. Only problem with us and one time only, in the Comores, when they served up food that had been subject to a long power outage and everything defrosted and recooked it ........ not so good!!!