8653 swimming pool heating advice please

[quote=Marinaw;81227]Has anyone here tried anything like these?
[url=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Swimming-pool-solar-heater-panel-FREE-HEAT-new_W0QQitemZ290154078047QQihZ019QQcategoryZ20733QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem]Swimming pool solar heater panel. FREE HEAT! new. on eBay, also Swimming Pools, Swimming Pools Hot Tubs, Garden Plants, Home Garden (end time 20-Feb-08 11:50:08 GMT)[/url]

and does anyone know if these are available in Italy rather than having to freight them from the UK? We're in southern Marche.

I'm not looking to get our pool up to tropical temps, just raise it by a few degrees to remove the 'brrr' factor. Its a 10x5m pool half of it only waist height. Thinking of trying two out - got to be worth it for £250 if it makes a real difference.

Any words of wisdom gratefully received.

M[/quote]

Bit more & you can get one of these:

[url=http://c-zero.co.uk/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=186&zenid=0fc5693e53041f7cb895ea7406f0f364]SFA15 - £320.00 : The Navitron Online Shop, affordable renewable technology[/url]

Won't fit in your suitcase though. Might be worth a phone call or some local enquires for similar? There seem to be plenty of them on roofs in the south.

Pip pip

no experience, but had a quick look at the manufacturer website - in order to be effective, it requires that you leave your pool pump running for at least 6 hours during the day to circulate the water through the panel (and turn the pump off at night or fit a separate automatic sensor to do this for you). Obviously, if there's no sun theres no heat i.e. it isn't generating photovoltaic electricity that can be stored and used later, it's just directly heating the water as it flows through the panel. If you plan to roof mount you'd need an addtitional kit & would also need to check your pump rating to ensure it's upto the task of pumping the water up there. Seems like a nice cheap solution for a sunny country though as long as you are OK with your pump running for long periods.

For a couple of hundred euros it is worth buying a cover to keep the heat in during the night.

The normal rule for northern Europe is between 35-50% of the area of the pool a 10 x 5 pool requires up to 25m2 solar panels. Naturally less in Italy and less for the more costly vacuum tubes.

The panels you are talking about are a cheaper and less efficient solar system made up mainly of plastic tube and fittings may be a bit unsightly. But will certainly take the burr off the pool.

However if it's an in-grond pool then you may be wasting your money if it is not already insulated against heat transfer to the earth.

:smile:

PS Watch your enel bill rise drastically if you use a single phase pump.

It is an alluring idea, to just slightly warm up the pool water thus 'extending the season', but it (in my opinion) really doesn't work very well. Nipping into a pool at 23degC is fine if it is an unusually hot day in May; if the outside temperature (in the sun) is high, it will be an enjoyable dip. However, if it is really not that warm outside, or if there is a breeze, even 23degC is not really nice to swim in - and you can't get warm through 'serious swimming' in a ten metre long pool.

But - if it is going to cost only 250 euros, it might be worth an experiment! lotan's suggestion of a pool cover is good, (but do not buy the super thermally efficient black coloured plastic covers - they last about two years because they degrade so quickly under sunlight).

Good Point about the cover Charles!! You described perfectly evaporative cooling which can also be applied to a house at a much lower cost both capitally and running.

Last year we were able to heat the pool to 29ºc without a cover with solar panels plus we had DHW for 6 months. This is OK but the best was extending the swimming season, swam last year from 15th April to 15th Oct; last two weeks were a bit of a trial; but got to put the investment to good use.

Typically you can get a temperature raise of approximately 10 - 15 degrees ferenheit above the outside air temperature by using swimming pool solar panels. We bought our [URL="http://www.inyopools.com/heaters_solar_inground.aspx"]Solar Pool Heating[/URL] at INYOpools.com and have been very happy with the performance of the solar panels. Some people will also use the solar panels to do the hard work of the initial heating of the pool and then purchase a small gas heater to bring the water temp up to the last several degrees you desire.

Thanks

Pat

I've got a pool in the UK ,so obviously the outside temperature is different. Solar panels can ,as you say ,make a small difference but if you are aiming to use the pool regularly the investment in a gas boiler ( if you have town gas) may be worth it because you can set it to activate only when the pool cools ,but can put it on boost if the temperature has dropped -so much more flexible.
Price in the Uk for a boiler that does this is in the region of £1,000 -1,500.Sounds a lot but a pool is expensive to put in and reasonably expensive ( chemicals,pump electricity,time cleaning) just to run.So after all that ,you may not want it to be too cold when you want to use it !

Alternatively you can use a wood/pellet boiler to heat the pool; a lot less expensive both in investment (not pellet boiler) and running costs.

However you have to measure this against the comfort factor (you’ll have to do some work). Prices in Italy are much higher than the UK for gas and costs will be substantially higher here in Italy (rather depends on your wallet).

What’s wrong with solar power it works and it’s nearly free (except for the initial investment) for 20 years or so. You can also use it for the house DHW system for the summer – a further investment. However I feel it essential to invest in a cover and insulate the structure against the earth (for in ground pools).
:smile:

for all the advice. (marina's worse half here)

I've done some more digging (internet wise not literally!) and I think it would be wise to take the hit on the panels that navitron sell rather than the black plastic ones, as they work better in bright but not sunny weather.

It would appear we will also need a heat exchanger as we can't put chlorinated water straight through the panels?

I think we also need a small pump to pump the water into the heat exchanger from the panels, and a controller of some sort.

From reading Navitron forum, I think this set up would cost us about €1.5-€2k to install, but could be expanded to divert heat for domestic hot water (we have a combi at the moment but I think it's still possible?)

Oh forgot to say we already have a pool cover - it's an American invention called a 'pool pill' which puts an invisible layer of a biodegradeable (one month) non toxic chemical on the surface of your pool one molecule thick - which stops evaporation - manufacturers claim up to a 5°C improvement with it.

Cheers,

[quote=Marinaw;81959]Oh forgot to say we already have a pool cover - it's an American invention called a 'pool pill' which puts an invisible layer of a biodegradeable (one month) non toxic chemical on the surface of your pool one molecule thick - which stops evaporation - manufacturers claim up to a 5°C improvement with it.

Cheers,[/quote]

Do Pool Pills work? Or is it a case of 'The Emperor's New Clothes'?

ciao i know nothing of this subject but i was reading this when i looked for a small above ground pool, don't know how effective they would be
[url=http://www.h2ofun.co.uk/solar_sun_rings.asp]Solar Sun Rings, Solar Swimming Pool Heating and Pool Cover[/url] ciao marco

ta Marco. I read your link and the instructions raised some alarm bels - sounded to me like they were expecting issues due to poorly inflated/creased rings (i.e. loads of complex rules & caveats on preparation/inflation/deflation/storage etc.). I googled for some reviews:
[url=http://reviews.intheswim.com/3956/SKU19577/reviews.htm]In The Swim Solar Sun Rings Ratings & Reviews[/url]
It sounds like it does a fair job of heating & is convenient (relative to conventional solar 'pool blankets' once inflated) as it can be operated by one person - but it is a bit fiddly to set up, and the number required is greater than the manufacturer estimate (suspect that may be due to differences in pool depths though). Also, someone pointed out that you can remove just a "lane" of rings to allow one person to swim lengths while leaving the heating active on the rest of the pool surface area ... good for those seeking fitness over fun?

Re the pool pills - somone asked if they were available in Italy - we don't think so but can be imported. Lucky for me my brother in in New York so could take delivery and forward them to us - my other half says -

're the pool pills - got them via the US (can't post to Europe directly) but they do them here too, just a bit more expensive, could try this brand [url=http://www.jlunnon.com/covers.html]Swimming Pool Covers and Enclosures - J Lunnon Pools and Spas[/url] (liquid polymer blanket) [url=http://www.deep-blue-pools.com/tropical-fish.htm]Tropical Fish Cover[/url] or [url=http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/pool-covers/smartpool-ap-72-2.htm?id=4]Pool Covers | Solar Covers | SolarPill[/url] . In my opinion, I think the fish give a more controlled rate of delivery than the pills where it seems to spill out all at once.'

I know someone mentioned that the fish versions look very much like a kids toy so you have to make sure any little darlings don't treat them as such.

We think they made a couple of degrees difference compared to other local pools according to our house managers.

Hope that helps

M

Can anyone tell me the approximate costs of running an unheated pool in Le Marche? My pool is 12 x 6. I paid 600 euros last year for chemicals and 500 euros for the opening and closing.
Also the company I use insists on emptying the pool every year - he says it is cheaper to do that than to put all the necessary chemicals to reuse the old water. Am I being ripped off - yet again????

Sorry to say, I do suspect that someone is having a good time at your expense, unless you are not paying anthing in addition for regular/weekly maintenance.

PM me if you want further input from me.

Hi

I was just wondering what other people are paying to have their pools opened and closed. I don't know if it makes much difference, but ours is a 10 x 5 metre chlorinated pool. How complicated a job is it? Does anyone know if there is a recommended guidebook/tutorial so we could do it ourselves? Ridiculously, we have the pool but have not really looked after it ourselves at all so our knowledge is limited at the moment - willing to learn though!

Thanks

Strawberry*

How much should one pay roughly? Just how much am I being ripped off? Can anyone tell me what is the average annual spend on the chemicals? I feel such a fool!!!!

I wouldn't say you are being ripped off excessively - the opening/closing charge of €500 is not out of line. The chemicals charge is a bit high, I'd estimate a max of €200 if you are applying them yourself - but since you are not, somebody, I assume, has to come out and clean the skimmers, drop in the chlorine, maybe balance the pH, set up the pool cleaner or 'hoover' it manually, which is going to take them at least an hour, poolside, a week during the season. Add travelling. Also, because there isn't anyone there every day, the pool maintenance people will tend to over chlorify to be on the safe side.

Thank you Charles for your post.
Strawberry star - pools are complicated. We look after pools and it makes me laugh when people say, that must be a nice job! What do they think we do, chuck a few chemicals in and then sit around in the sun watching the pools clean themselves! Actually keeping a pool looking good all summer with the correct balance of chemicals requires skill, committment and a lot of sweating in the sunshine. Unless you are permanently at your house in italy, and are then trained in how to administer the chemicals etc, someone to maintain the pool is essential.

I know we need someone to maintain the pool. I was asking if it would be possible to open and close the pool ourselves as we are often over at the beginning and end of the season.