11944 Was Coming to Italy the Right Decision?

I there, I am not in the same position as you are; we bought in Tuscany 2 years ago, right up in the hills, definitely need a car, but there is limited public transport. Learning the language would help, I have my Italian lessons on my I-pod and listen when I can.We love going there, but always on holiday, we go 3 times during the year and I stay for as long as I can. Things are not good anywhere at present, getting work in the UK is very difficult, unless one is in the teaching sector, or where they need the skills. I don't think I am of much help, but I sympathize with you, hang in there, things HAVE to get better eventually.

We are travelling up to Bologna on our scooter in July, spending the night there and then going down to Verona to the opera. Now, where in the world can one see and do such amazing things - Italy rocks!

Hi Valentine and welcome to the Forum! As you rightly say, holidaying and living permantly in any country are two different things. I think that, in your case, your main problem is isolation. Living a fair distance from the town and not having transport are contributing to your loneliness. Trying to find a job could be a solution as it would allow you to communicate with other people. In your partner's case, the fact that he is not getting much job satisfaction is evident; however, these are very difficult times worldwide and people are making big sacrifices with salary cuts and extended working hours just to keep their jobs. You have to seriously think at all possibilities, namely:
Could you move to a place closer to town or with regular transport?
Would it be possible for you to get a job?
What would be the chances for your partner to get any improvement in his position?
Would you consider going back to the UK or to another country if jobs were available? Keep in mind, as I said before that the current economic climate is quite bad everywhere.
Make a list of all the positive things which have happened to you in the past three years and compare them with the difficulties, bearing in mind that we all go through hard times at one stage or the other.
Happiness is in the mind. You can be happy anywhere, anytime if you have the right attitude.
Italy has wonderful things to offer and is making many people happy; however, if you do not feel that way perhaps you should think at other options, bearing in mind that problems may follow you wherever you go.
It is most important for you to integrate with locals, otherwise you will always be a foreigner. In any country.
Good luck and best wishes!

Well if your partner isn't happy with Italy, (and you don't sound too convinced either) - I'd simply up sticks and move. Or is that more difficult - do you own the house and need to get the money back, or are you renting?

It's easy enough to live happily in Italy - even stuck up a mountain - but only if you don't need to earn very much money in Italy: for example if you are retired, or can do a job for a non-Italian company remotely using the computer. Perhaps at a later stage in your life you might be able to try Italy again, without the need to take a poorly paid job or live in poverty. Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.

Valentine, the key to Italy is Italians.

The more experiences you have, the more integrated you become. The more you do, the more you learn (because they will tell you). The more people you meet, the better you will eat :yes:. The more chance meetings you have the more invitations you get.

Language is not an issue. Italians love to talk.

Do you think you are brave enough to get a ‘Vespa’?

Hi, thanks your comments some of them are useful. Yes everywhere is very bad at the moment, so it is not a good time to move anywhere. I do want to work, and integrate (I do not want to be like the immigrants in the UK, didn't move here to do that). The house we live in is owned by my partner, so he has first house status (which is quite a saving) . If we move elsewhere in Italy this would not be the situation, it would also make the financial siuation even worse than it is currently is. To move in Italy, you consider the charges that are incurred when selling and buying in Italy (much more here than UK). The estate agents make a fortune both ways, selling & buying!! Then there are the very high legal fees. Of course we could sell the property ourselves, and thats what we probably would do, if we decided to move. We are lucky in some respects, living in Lugagnano as there are alot of expats here. Most are italian descent. But there are a couple of people like me completely english. However, most of them do not like living here. My partner is often quoting to me "I am not the only one who doesn't like it here, and wants to leave".
In Italy it is very important who you know or how your related to someone, with regards to getting something done, or getting a job. My partner is ambitious and would love to be promoted, or move to a better paid more stimulating job. But there is only two major companies in our area and he is working for one of them (and apparently very lucky to have got a job so quickly within this company). His job is fairly secure, but he is not likely to get promoted, not because he isn't any good but because of my earlier comment "connections". So he will be waiting on dead man's shoes. He earns as much overtime as he can, but then you have to becareful of the tax threshold's here, which if you hit them you end up worse off. If you change jobs, you can end up with a high tax bill as my partner found out last year. Apparently, some of this money can be returned the following year, but what a system??!! CRAZY Even though he was what we call in England, "PAYE". Working will help me, and I have been looking for work. I might have a job at the local canning factory, when the new seasons vegetables are ready to be canned. I used to work in the financial sector in the City as a PA, which there is no way I could do here as my italian is not good enough, but I will start from the bottom here to get somewhere. I would love to work from home on the computer as this is something I am good at. But I have no idea what I could do that earns a small or reasonable income so suggestions PLEASE.
I am looking for a car, but I think buying a car from the UK would be the best option given as I said before how expensive it is here to buy, and run a vehicle. For insurance, I would be put in the bottom category, and was quoted 1,500 for a 1.3 Kia valued at 3,000 - ridiculous, then there is the passagio, and the bollo. Insuring from the UK, as a brit abroad I was quoted much less than 500 and there is no passagio! Car tax is cheaper too. As for integrating, I am friends with the expats here and they say it is very hard to ingrated here. The people in this area, are very tight and unfriendly. I know we are in a bad economic climate, but they are like it here alll the time they never go out anywhere NOT even to buy a coffee! They never throw anything away here, even though it might be broken and worthless. They try to be as self sufficient as they can, and save all their money. Even the italians that have lived in the UK and returned to Italy to live say their British friends are their true friends, their so called italian friends speak behind their backs. People in this area, get very jealous of anyone owning or doing anything here. Therefore they only mix with their families. This makes it hard for people to ingrate and bring fresh ideas to an old town - that will eventually die off unless it moves with the times. I really hope the rest of Italy is not like the area I live in and that some of you can say that things are much better where you are. Thank you again for your comments, and suggestions they are helpful, and I will definately become a regular to this site. I will do my bit with learning the language...just need someone to converse with..

[quote=Valentine;113948]I'm new to this forum, but have perused it from time to time and I think its a great way to share information and maybe solve the odd problem or two that you experience from living in a new country. I've lived in Italy for 3 years and very shameful do not speak the language very well - however I do have my excuses :masked:. I have lived for last year stuck up a hillside without a vehicle and the nearest town is 5km. I know I need to get out and about, but to do that I need a car, that means ridiculously priced insurance, bollo, passagio (nothing to pay in UK). But I do aim to get a job to help my italian improve and to help my partner. My partner works in a local company for the past 2 years. Even though he has a secure job, the pay is terrible and does not cover the cost of living. However he has become very unhappy living in Italy, he now regrets coming. It was his dream to live here but I think he fell under the holiday spell. Living here, and holidaying here are two entirely different things.. The cost of living in Italy is astronomical, and the tax is high. Energies, are all expensive and the government doesnt seem to be interest in solving any of these problems. There are many problems living in any country but living here seems like a step back in time that is not going forward in the right direction, compared to the other European countries. Italy is falling behind. Can anyone help me win back the charm of this place? Or can anyone please tell me if they are feeling the same, do you regret moving here. Are you thinking of leaving? My partner thinks the place to go is the US, but that is not an easy place to enter... please help.:veryconfused:[/quote]
Dear Vale,yes,most of the things you say are unfortunately all too true.
i guess ,in a way,i was lucky because having come to Italy ,years ago for a job ,i was young post graduate,single and a man all of which helped a rapid and intense integration,things weren't even good in old bighty then either.i was also lucky in that i then lived for the next twenty years in Milano the only city ,even today, where it is possible to work (in the european way) as most people in that city are from somewhere else family life is completely different, as are communities there based on common interests as opposed to relatively closed rural societies.i was able,but perhaps those were other times,to get graduate level emplyment and have a career in a relatively open minded meritocratic environment with a lot of international relations.BUT, i had to live in the city,grey buildings,crowded metro and buses,always running in a stressful competitive environment.basically just like living in london or somewhere like that.HAD I, moved directly to where i now live i know my story would have been totally different.Living here was a "later life" choice,and when i was younger i WANTED to be in the city.I remember years ago a head hunter wanted to offer me a job as marketing director for a leading italian company in the toy industry,he was rather "sheepish" in his approach,this intrigued me ,then it came out that this company was in what was then a rural area close to Ancona
Ancona! i said...no way.one didn't leave Milano to go to Ancona (or places like that considered the level of being sent to the eastern front) one might not have been able to get back!!! i now live in the marche not too far from Ancona! but thats another story.The bottom line is that ,and this is only a personal opinion based on my own experiences, that it is very difficult to acheive or reconcile a life in a rural or semi rural environment and serious graduate level employment..(otherwise london would be a ghost town)IF you're young enough,still have enough energy,will to live in italy and desire to fight then my very best advice would be to move to a LARGE city or Milano,it doesn't mean it would be easy and it would be certainly much more expensive than where you are.start working doing almost anything whilst you start trying to get back on the band waggon .i know none of this would be easy especially in the present time of crisis but personally i would find it preferavble to the soft bellied prospect of social benefits in the UK.I wish you the very best of luck, and yes get the driving licence and keep up with the language lessons.P.S. the USA is the pits at the moment.

Sorry I think that the comment about 'soft bellied benifits' was very harsh.

This couple are working really hard to support themselves living in virtual poverty because of the terrible wages in Italy .They have every right as UK citizens to move back to the UK and apply for benifits to help them before they manage to find work.They may have been a bit idealistic in their expectations for a life in Italy but they tried it and now want to try something a lot less stressful and more rewarding if part of that means receiving some sort of income support for a short time I can't see why there should be shame attached to that.

I read Sebastiano's post again and I fail to see how the "soft bellied benefits" comment could be interpreted as directed to Valentine. He is only stating options that some people may have and he is giving sound advice regarding the current situation and employment prospects not only in Italy and the UK but also in other countries, such as the US, which was one of the queries.
To further answer Valentine's queries, to enter the US at the moment, unless you qualify automatically, it is almost "mission impossible" You would need an American company to hire you and go through all the process of getting you approved for employment and in the present circumstances this is extremely difficult. There are specialised Forums dealing with these matters, so, if the topic interests you, do a bit of a search.

[quote=myabruzzohome;114298]Sorry I think that the comment about 'soft bellied benifits' was very harsh.

This couple are working really hard to support themselves living in virtual poverty because of the terrible wages in Italy .They have every right as UK citizens to move back to the UK and apply for benifits to help them before they manage to find work.They may have been a bit idealistic in their expectations for a life in Italy but they tried it and now want to try something a lot less stressful and more rewarding if part of that means receiving some sort of income support for a short time I can't see why there should be shame attached to that.[/quote]

I agree entirely. Going slightly off thread for a minute if you'll forgive me please, coincidentally, I was looking in earlier this morning on a French expat Forum where a good friend of mine posts regularly. They're having a discussion at the moment about the benefits older people are entitled to in the UK (carers' allowances, winter fuel payments, etc) and how a growing number of older British expats, many living for years in France, are returning to Britain because it makes so much more economic sense, especially now with Pound/Euro parity.
Gala mentions moving to the US. As she rightly says, it is hellishly difficult and even if you work for a US company, the visa they take you in on initially is only 3 or 5 years (I forget now). But check out the US government's Green Card lottery for we know two people who've won the right to live and work in the US this way.

I know it's not the answer to your problems, but have you thought about getting a bicycle; not one from the supermarket but a reasonably lightweight one. It would make that 5k much more manageable, and at least in the short term make you feel slightly better for being more mobile. Great exercise too, and when I feel down I find any exercise really helps.

I manage to run a car here, but I agree with you about the costs. If I'd re-registered my old Fiesta here it would have cost more for the passagio than its market value!

A bicycle is a nice idea but if Valentine lives anywhere like I do it is not really practical. The roads are narrow and very steep, I might get to the shops but I’d never get back!

An ape seems to be the solution round here. I know they are not expensive to buy or run but I don’t know about Bollo or the insurance, It might be worth looking into.

From what I have read the problem of isolation is very depressing. I wonder if you took your courage in both hands (learned the basic Italian) and went and asked a neighbour if they would give you a lift into town next time they went, it might break the ice.

I have found the Italians to be incredibly helpful if you ask them for help, especially if you have a problem.

You might find you strike up a friendship and then get introduced to others and end the isolation.
We Brits are very independent and don’t like to ask for help, but the Italians, especially in rural communities, are used to helping one another.

I always advise newcomers to get themselves ‘adopted’ by an Italian family as soon as they can. It makes an immense difference to life. We are very lucky that our neighbours adopted us, we have even been shown off to other Italians because we are trying to speak the language and out class some other adopted foreigners.:laughs:

Good luck with whatever you decide.