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In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Great news indeed.
Plus we have blue skies, warm sunshine and the birds are singing their hearts out here in my garden today, so am feeling good and positive. What more could I want?
Francesca
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Today is a day of celebration and remembrance for Italians. It is Liberation Day and a National holiday.
Italy celebrates its liberation by allied forces during the Second World War and remembers all those who lost their lives, military civilian and especially partisan.
Similar to the November 11th Remembrance Day in the UK (which also commemorated in Italy)
The song of the partigiani
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 04/25/2009 - 13:07In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Trn4l8_5Tc"]YouTube - Bella ciao[/ame]
Lots of versions, but I like the images on this one :smile:
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
sorry... no wish to start any arguments but this day is the day celebrated not for the liberation by allied troops of Italy... but is the day marked for the Italian partisans liberation from Nazism.of Italy....
the difference is not obvious for non Italians but for many here its not a day to celebrate... because for many its a day when you celebrate the deaths of many thousands of Italians also and up until today was never attended by people from the right side of politics in Italy....
its a day that celebrates the tar and feathering of many women that were seen to have been affectionate to occupying soldiers although this was often just the settling of old scores ... rejected advances ... a day when many more old scores were settled many people hung without trial... and many women raped and killed as their punishment.... for perceived collaboration...its also a day which has never been reconciled between the two sides of Italy...
so in terms of celebration its not a day all Italy celebrates... its also not something to my mind that should ever be celebrated...the deaths of many Italians ... at the hands of Italians... street justice handed out by people that had guns... its to me a memorial day of horror and it deserves to my mind that respect ... a memory of the horror of civil war... in a country hit hard by internal civil conflict at the time...
it is in no way similar to the english 11/11/11 memorial day and i would not consider even that day a day of celebration
today is the first time ever that Berlusconi as a prime minister has attended it... and it has caused much debate and hate from the left that a right wing minister is attending the memorial services... this is after 50 years or so
sorry it had to be said
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I think it is always wise to look at both sides of a story, (in history and today.) I hope I haven't upset or offended you by posting the Partisan song. I like to think my chaps were the good guys - I may be proved wrong.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I think the fact that it's not a straight good guys/bad guys thing makes it much more interesting and more relevant to the human condition. Things are always more complicated, and my small amount of reading about partisans (Italian and otherwise) leads me to beleive that the motives and behaviour of these groups were many and varied. The Allies found the partisans a threat in many places, given that their reasons often included the imposition of Communism, and once their usefulness in defeating the Nazis was over, were themselves targetted. No doubt other Italians considered themselves patriots in fighting Communist partisans, and no doubt many scores were settled on both sides before any sort of authority could be restored.
Is there an Italian version of Marcel Ophuls' "Le Chagrin e le Pitie"? Or is Italy still in the romanticising/demonising phase?
Bella Ciao
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 04/25/2009 - 15:32In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
This song is sung every so often in Sarnano by people in their 30 s and 40s, usually after a few drinks, not on any special day. The divisions still exist for some of the older people. I've had people pointing out ( not nastily) those whose fathers were fascists or communists. I asked a bar owner about a memorial stone on his bar. He said that it was a memorial to partisan b,,,,,,s, after the liberation of Sarnano, he says there was total anarchy. Others tell stories of hiding allied servicemen, of fights between British and American soldiers, the war is still very fresh in peoples minds.
In the Comune there are old photographs. There is one of a group of Fascists in uniform on a balcony, the photo next to it is of a group of partigiani, very proud and fierce looking with their guns and grenades. People here appear to be reconciled with their past. I know that I miss any subtle nuances though and have to take things at face value. Here they do celebrate though.
I suppose Adriatica it varies from town to town. Sarnano was lucky in that it wasn't destroyed. The main German defence line being 20 km to the North.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=adriatica;118201]sorry... no wish to start any arguments but this day is the day celebrated not for the liberation by allied troops of Italy... but is the day marked for the Italian partisans liberation from Nazism.of Italy....
the difference is not obvious for non Italians but for many here its not a day to celebrate... because for many its a day when you celebrate the deaths of many thousands of Italians also and up until today was never attended by people from the right side of politics in Italy....
its a day that celebrates the tar and feathering of many women that were seen to have been affectionate to occupying soldiers although this was often just the settling of old scores ... rejected advances ... a day when many more old scores were settled many people hung without trial... and many women raped and killed as their punishment.... for perceived collaboration...its also a day which has never been reconciled between the two sides of Italy...
so in terms of celebration its not a day all Italy celebrates... its also not something to my mind that should ever be celebrated...the deaths of many Italians ... at the hands of Italians... street justice handed out by people that had guns... its to me a memorial day of horror and it deserves to my mind that respect ... a memory of the horror of civil war... in a country hit hard by internal civil conflict at the time...
it is in no way similar to the english 11/11/11 memorial day and i would not consider even that day a day of celebration
today is the first time ever that Berlusconi as a prime minister has attended it... and it has caused much debate and hate from the left that a right wing minister is attending the memorial services... this is after 50 years or so
sorry it had to be said[/quote]
I recommend this film to everybody: [url=http://www.tiscali.co.uk/entertainment/film/reviews/malena.html]Malena film review[/url]
It depicts those terrible times and it is a masterpiece set in Sicily. Magnificent movie and a real "must" for all those interested in that very dark period of Italy's history.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
annec
if you ever watch the still current rai adventures of the war dramas (at least a couple a year)you will see that the romanticising/demonising phase? is definitely still in
mr uno... you are exactly right... but i would regard the word celebrate as i said before the wrong descriptive word... this is a memorial day...
its worth if you ever get the chance to watch what seems to be a pretty comprehensive library of film of the war here... the RAI despite its drama section n RAI tre seems to carry it often enough and its worth watching out for...
this is a country that still yearns after the days of Mussolini.... in part... mainly in the centre/south... so anyone of that ilk will definitely not be going to the services in the town squares... so its not a simple day here... at all...
Lolita the song is known by heart here in this house,,,its taught in the schools...so no I'm not upset by the film...or even a different opinion... as you say two sides and i am not here as a judge.....its just i never celebrate death
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I see there are quite a few clips of the film on Youtube Gala, including this one.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LL8x052WbI&feature=related]YouTube - Malena part1[/ame]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
As I said before, a wonderful movie. I bought the DVD in London at Borders. I watch it in its original version but with Italian subtitles. It is difficult to understand the Sicilian accent and some of the expressions.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I'll just post his for those who remembered that the 25th April is indeed a National Holiday here in Italy.
While the partisans were strong in many parts of Italy, in the little corner where I live they were very strong. Here is an account of the discovery of Mussolini dressed as a German soldier and hiding in a convoy that was stopped at the Ponte del Passo just 2 miles from where I live. There are still many here who were involved with the local partisan groups that they speak of in this account. Tomorrow my village celebrates that discovery!
[B][url=http://ww2warstories.tripod.com/id37.htm]The Capture of Mussolini (1945)[/url][/B]
But obviously my thread was to celebrate the reuniting of some members who had considered leaving IM - but if remembering the trials of those days encourages some good interesting posts then it will have achieved someting at least!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
v. cel·e·brat·ed, cel·e·brat·ing, cel·e·brates
v.tr.
[B]1. To observe (a day or event) with ceremonies of respect[/B], festivity, or rejoicing..
2. To perform (a religious ceremony): celebrate Mass.
3. To extol or praise:
4. To make widely known; display:
[B]1. To observe an occasion with appropriate ceremony[/B] or festivity.
2. To perform a religious ceremony.
3. To engage in festivities:
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Lollie, have a listen to this version. :yes:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPD6Q_xuF-E&feature=related]YouTube - bella ciao[/ame]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
This version, JC, is really poignant.
Another song from the "partigiani" is the communist's "Bandiera rossa". This version has the lyrics:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqE9y0dTiU]YouTube - Canti Partigiani - Bandiera Rossa (Originale)[/ame]
Nothing better than a good celebration!