Residency

You say;- " I need to apply for residency in Italy. " "However, I will not be a ‘full-time’ resident, maybe up to or just over half the year for the time being" "I may require residency because I may stay over the statutory 180 – whatever days per year; I need to avoid having to pay the full 10% tax on my recently purchased property and because I may want to buy an old car to use while I am there" "....... despite my saying that I will not be a permanent resident"   Are you wishing to become a resident? - or is it just some fidddle to avoid paying tax on the house purchase etc etc?   As I understand it - you cannot be resident in two countries at once - so it seems to me that you have to choose which one [and meet the 'time spent there each year' requirement]

Confused me too. Please elucidate.

You are either a resident or not.  Permanent residence only comes into play after 5 years.  SO you are confusing your local comune.  Tey will give you residence if you are intending to live here for more than half the year, and therefore cut ties with the UK (fiscally).  

Think you will be considered/need to be resident if you are here for 183 days or more of the year. This was posted on another forum today as basic tax info in Italy for ex-pats http://www.theflorentine.net/articles/article-view.asp?issuetocId=6823 , it may be of help. for translated copies of your documentation I would look/ask around for someone locally that's certified to translate these for you and can get the relevant tribunal bollo done for you. We paid around €25 per page/certificate which included the bollo etc..  Yes the E121 is slow to disapear here, we have a friend who knows someone who went to get her health card at a regional office and they insisted they wanted an E121 until she went back with a copy of the relevant EU web page telling them it had been replaced (sure a quick Google will find you the web page - inItalian of course). You say you have a state pension, so are entitled to a S1 under that. As far as I'm aware (and if I was you I would not persue the matter) you would only lose UK health cover if out of the country for 3 or more months. Nothing is clear in this area and if you end up back in the UK and need treatment you will get it. Technically you could in fact get an EHIC from Italy for trips to the UK if resident here. I doubt if Newcastle OVB (old name where I worked once) would want more than an Italian address, could be wrong these days... You may wish to look into tax and/or the problems of not having an address in the UK if that's what you intend... Now there  is a grey area...  :)

I agree with what has been said, unless you are absolutely certain that you are going to reside in Italy for more than 183 days in the year, it is not worth the trouble to save some money on the purchase tax.

Quite a lot of useful stuff here: http://www.italymag.co.uk/community/post/residency-vs-non-residency In bocco al lupo

Firstly, if you are considering residency to save the tax on purchase, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just sensible tax planning. But like any other tax planning, you need to consider the tax saving against the downsides of residency. Whether it's worth trying to save some money is not really just a matter of someone's opinion, it depends largely on how much you are likely to save. I know many people bought ruins for peanuts back in the day, so for them the saving may have been quite small, but that's not always the case. Just as a guide, and with no claims of any authority on the subject, I wouldn't bother if the saving was less than about €10k. Between 10 and 18 I would think about it, over 18k it's probably a definite. Everyone will have their own versions of these figures, and you must work out your own! On the health side, the form your comune wants is the one which cuts you out of the NHS altogether. If you're happy with that, fine. If not you will need to show them that you have a private health insurance. The popular companies do a slimline policy which satisfies the comune, but probaby does little else. TK

I do not think that it is a simple matter of making a few calculations. All aspects of taking up residency in another country should be taken into account. And keep in mind that once the NHS entitlements will be transferred to Italy, should you decide to go back to the UK you will have to wait some time (I think it is about 6 months, but someone may know better) before being able to have those entitlements reinstated.

A friend of mine obtained a very low cost insurance policy (1 year only, in fact she could have cancelled it immediately) from a local company which satisfied our comune. This way she did not lose any uk benefits

If you say in your act of purchase that you want to take advantage of the prima casa tax break etc etc according to the DPR 2000 and so on - only to save money, it is a flase declaration in a public act - which is illegal - it is technically perjury.  under  the new laws, (exactly the same as not declaring your estate agent and their fees for example) this can lead to a fine of up to 15000 euros, the sequestration of your property anda jail term of up to 3 years.  There is no 'come on' about it - someone has to say exactly what the situation is - and as an agent I can be sued if I dont.... Obviously everyone chooses what they want to do, but best to do it in an informed way.

Sorry, thought I would be notified of new posts, obviously did not tick the right box!  Thank you all. If it is any consolation... I am totally confused as well! Firstly, I am NOT trying to do anything illegal... I do rather resent that comment.  Obviously ignorance, lack of knowledge on the subject and mis-information to date has not provided me with the correct facts (including the agency with whom I purchased the property!). I had honestly assumed until a few days ago, that when asked if this was my "Prima Casa", that they meant  'was this my first house in Italy?' It would seem for now, that residency is not the option to go for as I had been previously led to believe, as I am unlikely to be in Italy for more than the 183 days....... at the moment at any rate. (I will have to make sure I am not!)  As you all advise, it is not just a simple matter of saving 7% tax on the property purchase... It appears that the accumulated costs of taking out full residency are likely to be far more costly in a number of ways.  I still have a year to decide, so will follow any posts on this topic with interest.  I will also find the time to read previous posts on the subject, which yes, maybe I should have done first. This obviously affects IMU too? As I have already mistakenly (I now know) paid the 3% tax on the property, how would I go about paying the remaining 7%?  Just walk in to the Comune & say "sorry, changed my mind, here's the other 7%"?!! I did understand that you had to have residency to buy a car?  Again, I am getting conflicting advice.  Can anyone provide a definitive answer please?

I wasnt lambasting you - just making the point that alot of people think it doesnt matter, but it is important to know what you are doing.  So, if you've already done the atto you have 18 months to take up residence or not.  If you decide that 16 months in you arent going to, you need to go to the AGenzia dell'Entrate and tell them.  They will tell you how much you have to pay, and that's that.  If you wait till they get you after the 18 month period, you will have to pay a 30% surcharge as a fine.   The agency will have been misleading because most dont either know or care about your situation - strangely its easier for non European citizens to get elective residency than Europeans who automatically become resident - and here there is a typical Catch 22 situation as a European citizen must technically take residnce if they stay in Italy for more than 3 months, but fiscally its more than 183 days a year.  If you stay for 4 months at a time you land in a grey area which the comunes are at a loss to deal with.  Yes, to buy a car you would have to be a resident so if a car is indispensible then it adds weight to your argument about taking residency.  AS a nonresident you will be paying more for IMU with no deductions that a prima casa buyer would have, but you will get a deduction on your rubbish tax (TARES) which a resident wont get.    You have time to weigh up all the pros and cons and do some informed calculations and then you can decide what you need to do.  

Maggi have thought about taking a Uk car out with you.In Italy cars are not cheap to buy and the insurance prices are alot more too.

Errrr?  AGenzia dell'Entrate? How do I find that? I have now read some of the previous posts as suggested by chrisnotton and it is a relief to know that I will not be fined!  However, I have just filled out all the forms for the rubbish tax, but I guess that will get sorted eventually after I advise them I will not be a resident? FYI, my time in Italy is on a 2-4 weeks here and 2-4 weeks there basis at the moment.  Is the 3-month residence duration with or without breaks? You are correct when you say it is easier for non Europeans!  I have an Australian friend who spends about 5 months of the year in Italy, on and off like me, she just had to get a Carta di Identita in order to buy a car!

It wont be easy... A lot of things here are of course not so straightforward. Like you we were going to be back and forward, but not for such short periods. A car was just one of the things that cropped up with not being resident. Lot's of people have been there and there is lots of info on here as well as other forums. Think about the things you have/do in the UK and ask yourself how do/would I do that in Italy e.g. renew your UK ldriving licence, passport - ask "can I" ! Most peoples circumstance are different and you need to find your own answer by weighing up the information you find. Don't be put off, take nothing for granted, one step at to time (in priority), but most of all make sure you enjoy it! 

Maggi, I would agree with the alternative mentioned by pass55. Have you considered driving to Italy? We do that from Spain twice or three times every year and we find it very convenient. We always stop overnight and try to visit different towns to provide variety and make it more interesting. We also don't have too many choices as we travel with our elderly doggy and flying is not a good alternative. A bit more homework for you... think about it and make a few calculations. 

"Except that its illegal.  If you make a load of promises and then commit perjury in some cases, in order to save some money you can get fined, lose your property and be deported".  Ram, with respect, it seems to me that you may be being a bit too black and white on this one. Many people take residency on the basis that they will be spending more than 3 or 6 months per year in Italy, but situations change which prevent that, so residency cannot be maintained.  How in your definition can that be illegal and subject to fines, jail sentence, castration etc?

There should be one in your nearest biggish town - it's where you probably went to get your codice fiscale.  There will be a person who knows about this stuff and be able to tell you how much you owe.  You will need to take a copy of your atto with you.  WHen he gives you the figure (probably after a week or so) you will need to pay it by F23 at your bank.  And thats it - you dont need to show them the proof. 

... you would need to look into the insurance side of it. But from what I understand they can allow you to drive their car(someone here may know better...). We did a similar sort of thing when first arriving, but the insurance company (Italsure) were told about it and it being a second car wanted us both declared on the insurance. I'm sure in the UK the person loaning you the car would be liable for tax and guess that would be the case here. That said the deal looks ideal in comparison to  car hire. Don't forget however that you still have to get back and forward from the airport... (from none native Yorkshire folk...)  

If he's charging you 45 euros per 200 km thats not bad - you would usually pay about 45 a day for a car if you hire one locally.   If you bought you would be paying insurance, bollo, maintenance and so on - so it probably works out much more hassle free for you like this. 

Maggi, in Italy car insurance is slightly different to the UK, where the car is insured and people (I think over 25) are allowed to drive with the owners permission. I think this only gives you basic 3rd party insurance, so you may have to look into your own policy to cover you for excess etc.

This may impact this post http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget-updates/11dec12/stat-res-test-note.pdf Proposed new UK legislation, basically the same rules, but to be made legal....

I'm guessing that Italy have similar residency qualification criteria and for most cases, actual tax residency will be easy to determine, whether one has taken Italian residency with the comune or not. The problems arise in borderline cases, possibly like the OP, where each authority can "prove" that you are tax-resident in their country so as to extract tax from you. How you get them to agree is the tricky bit. In which case, taking up Italian anagrafe residency may swing the argument towards Italian tax-residency; the converse may equally apply.