1/3 share
Submitted by KarenSheffield on Sat, 10/20/2012 - 06:27
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Maybe you should get an independent valuation of the property? this might strengthen your hand in pressing for a higher price for your share. As for the other questions, this is clearly a complicated issue and I would advise you to consult a specialised Italian property lawyer who speaks English.
Wise advice from Karen
Submitted by Fillide on Sat, 10/20/2012 - 20:30
In reply to 1/3 share by KarenSheffield
You really do need to have a good idea of what the whole apartment might fetch, today - so the advice to get an independent valuation is spot on. Bear in mind, if the valuation disappoints you, that maybe you paid too much in the heady days of five or six years ago. Then, to discourage you further, the valuation of 'one third of an apartment' will be considerably less than one third of the value of the apartment. Think about it rationally - would you buy one third of an apartment occupied by two other co-owners with whom you have no rapport? Sometimes, one just has to accept that something which seemed a good idea at the time simply has to be walked away from. I hope you don't lose too much money - but peace of mind and not having something like this gnawing at you is priceless.
1/3rd share headache
Submitted by sraon on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 17:50
In reply to Wise advice from Karen by Fillide
Thank you Fillide, You are indeed very realistic about the situation. We bought the appartment in 1999 in Lire and the other parties would have us believe it has not increased in value since then - 60,000 Lire. I only mention the numbers because they are so ludicrously low when I also look at what else in on the market in the same town. You are right I guess no one would want it. But I feel we are being pushed to the point that I might give it away. Does anyone know if even that is possible? Thank you for your comments.
Tricky situation - escape!
Submitted by Fillide on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 18:28
In reply to 1/3rd share headache by sraon
It is possible in law to donate a property, but I think the person (entity) to whom you wish to donate it must agree to accept the donation. It would cost you no less (probably a bit more) to donate the property than to sell it. I understand that you don't like the valuation of €30,000 (eqivalent to 60,000,000 ITL) -as in equal to the price you paid initially in 1999. I don't know where you are in Emilia Romagna, but it is quite possible that a realistic valuation today is exactly the same as it was in 1999 - this is hard to accept if you have bought in to the idea that property never loses value, but we do live in very difficult times. So - this share in the property stands you at 20,000,000 ITL - which would in 1999 have equated to about £7,000 (without checking the Bloomberg site). So, what is the offer from your co-owner? Anything approaching €7000 sounds about fair to me. We are not talking about huge sums of money here, but the whole situation does seem to be distressing you, and I think for your sanity you should just take what you can get and put it down to experience! If you are selling, the norm here is that the buyer picks up all the notary fees - your only obligation is to prove you are up to date with taxes (ICI, Tarsu, IMU, possibly any condominium charges). If you do the deal with one of the co-owners (in other words, not involving an estate agent) you won't incur any costs as a seller.
12K - take his hand off!
Submitted by Fillide on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 18:33
In reply to Tricky situation - escape! by Fillide
In reply to 1/3 share by KarenSheffield
Firstly Karen: I agree to both your statements. One party invited a supposedly experienced geometra to view the property and valued it at 30K euros (the entire apartment!!). A young estate agent said 120K euros. Needlesstosay the other two parties only chose to believe the geometra!! We could get our own estate agent but who is to say they will like that valuation. A preliminary enquiry re legal advice was suggested as costing £1000 for an initial meeting. So I feel that the legal implications are disproportionate. You are entirely right though. That is the starting point. Thank you.
Fillide's advice is very
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 03:15
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Fillide's advice is very
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 03:16
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
As an owner you are liable for 33% of taxes and imposte - ie IMU, condiminio, TARSU etc. For the utility bills you should get yourself off the bill. I am assuming that you all signed the act of purchase as owners of 33% each. Can they make you sell - ultimately yes - you own a minor share. If they want to do works, you can be forced to pay your share, or let them buy you out. A court would decide the value of the property and they should pay you that portion.
Sraon, you do not say whether
Submitted by Flip on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 09:39
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Sraon, you do not say whether you actually purchased a third share or were left it by someone (i.e.. was family owned). You have got yourself a whole can of worms there as there are so many different permutations available regarding what to do, but as Ram says your are 33.3% liable for any charges, debts or bills incurred. If I were you I'd get a good Lawyer to look into it, one who preferably deals in Italian Property Law, a minefield in itself. This is a salutary warning to others as well, don't get financially involved with others in property unless you are absolutely sure and definitive on the consequences; unless it family, then you're buggered if it goes wrong anyway.
1/3 share in property headache!
Submitted by sraon on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 17:43
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
1/3 rd share headache
Submitted by sraon on Sun, 10/21/2012 - 18:10
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thank you so much 'Ram' for your response. I am indeed a named 1/3rd owner. I don't mind selling or being bought out but 12K euros is the ridiculous amount offered. (Again apologies for lack of diplomacy in talking money). I am dismayed that a court could force us to sell at the court's evaluation. In that event would I also incur court costs? If they do works meanwhile do I not even have a say in the matter? It seems like they can do what they like and I either pay now or effectively pay later as it will be taken out of my 1/3 on sale is this correct? Can you suggest what my wisest move should be to retain my position as far as possible? What bills are essential contributions and can I refuse some? I am thinking I should start going there again Is there anything to be gained by that? Hmmm a mess indeed. Definite warning I'd say - even to family members. Thank you all
Without knowing details about
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Mon, 10/22/2012 - 02:49
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
