48 italian banks are the best in europe

Don't get us started on Italian banks.....

We recently were unfortunate/stupid enough to have our credit and bank cards stolen out of our vehicle. Managed to block the English cards, and eventually the Italian Bancomat card. In the meantime somebody managed to get around 1000 euro from our accounts. The most frustrating thing was getting information from our Italian bank as it seemed to take days before they knew of any transactions etc, and they then, of course, proceeded to charge us merrily for the sort of service you would get for free in UK.

Two weeks on, we still do not know exactly how much they got away with, not having been able to procure an up to date statement!

And whilst replying, Post Offices??!! We have invented a new verb, to be "post officed", for even the most trivial transaction expect to lose half of your day, but you will catch up on all the gossip and get a free Italian Language lesson thrown in!

Sal and Tim
Bassano Del Grappa

sal and tim ....refreshing to have a real viewpoint......glad to hear your post office is as bad as ours.....my solution.....take a bottle of wine and a chair...several glasses and have a party whilst waiting to buy your stamp.

John… you have some interesting views and certainly create the foundations for further debate on the workings of the Italian banking system.

Antonio Fazio, the Governor of the bank of Italy, seems to be hinting that Italy will not give in to pressure from the European Commission and allow foreign rivals to merge with or acquire some of Italy’s banks.

Interestingly however, in his 26-page speech, Fazio said that foreign banks actually own bigger shares in Italy's four largest banks than in those of the biggest banks of Germany, France or Spain. Even more interesting is the fact that he rules out any mergers these four banks: Banca Intesa SpA, UniCredito Italiano SpA, Sanpaolo IMI SpA, and Capitalia, whilst backing possible mergers between the regional and medium-sized banks.

He claims that mergers between regional and medium-sized banks will create greater efficiencies. Personally I am not convinced this will work. Nor am I convinced that allowing foreign banks onto the “playing field” will solve the problem. Cultural differences alone have the propensity to block development and stifle competitiveness. They should never be underestimated.

Arguably, a well thought merger or acquisition is supposed to provide a number of benefits as well create new opportunities. In reality, acquisition and merger strategies often fail to bring about any perceived or real benefits because of fundamental flaws in the key issues and principles underpinning the reason for the merger or acquisition in the first place, not forgetting implementation…I experienced this sort of this when working in Florence for a large multinational who tried to impose a management system which was totally alien to the Italian way of doing things. I don’t believe the banking sector is immune to problems of this nature and so would question the value of mergers and or acquisitions, be it foreign or nationally led.

The other barriers stem from shareholders such as Emilio Gnutti owning a 10% stake in Banca Antonveneta SpA who prefers Italian banks to “remain Italian” and Silvio Berlusconi of course, who is alleged to be in “`full agreement” ' with Antonio Fazio on limiting foreign ownership of Italian banks.

I guess the issue is a tough one. That is not to say I don’t want to see a reform of Italy’s financial services sector but rather that we have a limited say in the manner and that we don’t have much cause to complain when we have chosen, by our own free will, to live and bank in Italy.

I wonder how others feel!

Charles

....the reson anyone will invest in italian banks is because they have a virtual licence to print money..... so are very profitable.... unlike other banks they charge you to have your money with them....the bank debate has come up before ....it is an issue.....there seems to be a consistent theme in replies to any critical postings of anything to do with italy that if you live here you must accept all things italian without criticism.....my wife being italian also happens to agree having spent ten years or so in england she also finds the banking system here both ineficient and over priced..... you almost need a degree in economics to read your statements....
however as to your final point.... i think that italy has signed up to all the ce agreements....was indeed one of the founding members..... it has been asked several times to bring its banking system into line with ce regulations and is before the court for its refusal.... i am a citizen of the ce .....by right i live wherever i choose within that area.... if where i choose breaks the laws then i have as much right as an italian ,french or german within that area to remonstrate with the law breakers to put them right...... incidentally italy is also breking the law in its requirment of ce citizens to register their presence and apply for permits to live within europe....i would also criticise this..... i do not expect to be forceably removed from the place....indeed it is a democracy and has joined with the uk and us to fight in a foreign country to allow people that freedom of speech.

I think that most of us who move around either for business or just simply to relocate to other European countries are aware that EU member states have common laws and regulations that are supposed, among other things, to facilitate free trade between them, to protect the rights of people, to protect the environment and to ensure that that no country is exploited in the process. Sadly, there will be instances when such laws will be flouted or broken. This is inevitable. It is a fact of life.

Name one country that does not flout its laws. Just look at the recent issues concerning the way in which some EU member states block bids from competing nations and reward large public contracts to their own nationals when EU legislation clearly states that there must be free and open competition. Consider also the explosive case surrounding the Oil-for-food scandal where the UN Security Council set up a programme enabling Iraq to sell limited quantities of oil and to spend the proceeds on food and other supplies despite the fact that Iraq was under UN sanctions. The list goes on.

I would agree with you that that most countries, Italy included need to strengthen their administrations, tighten up their laws and ensure that the rules exist for everybody to abide by. But this would bee too simplistic since enforcing and policing EU legislation, I might add, is a very big task to undertake. What we are discussing here is just a tiny fraction of the inherent problems with the EU on the whole and its concomitant concept of a “single Europe”.

Italian bank charges and statements seem to be an emotive issue. Yes they can be confusing. Yes the charges can be high. Yes, car insurance is costly. But I must point out that two weeks ago I accompanied a client who was just to complete on the purchase of a house. The bank was extremely helpful, professional and prompt in preparing the funds for the Rogito, despite the fact that the money had arrived at short notice. Moreover, we were asked to complete certain formalities but as we were late we agreed to go back after lunch. The bank manager was even kind enough to open the branch fifteen minutes before it was due to open so that we could sign the relevant forms.

As far as the contracts are concerned I’m afraid it is a case of caveat emptor so my advice to anyone opening a bank account is to ask and seek clarification of anything you don’t understand. Bank officials won’t tell you much unless you ask them. Believe me people…it is not all that bad.

John, forgive me for being somewhat fastidious but from your comments one could get the impression that you have a lot to whinge about. If I were someone new to Italy I would consider your comments to be neither helpful nor constructive. You have the right to your opinions of course…after all, freedom of speech and all that…but it begs the question: If you knew it was like this then why did you move to Italy in the first place?

My experience so far has been very positive.When I transferred funds to complete our house purchase the Italian bank did its job very well and it was the two English banks, both taking a day longer to transfer the money than they they should have done, who gave us the grief.

Living in a mainly rural area we use a small local bank with very few stranieri clients (most are farmers and local businessmen). We are delighted with the service (we're on first name terms with manager, deputy manager and tellers) and they are friendly and helpful.

Banks in italy….. say you send over e10,000 to your bank in italy……you visit for six months and use the bancomat card to pay for things….. you think you have e 10,000 but no you already have less….out of that money your deductions will include a charge for them maintaining your account…..debited every three months ..so you start to spend …. Each time you use the card you will pay a charge….. if you go to your bank and withdraw money you will pay a charge….. if you deposit in money you will pay a charge….. if you try to use a cheque no one will take it….you have to go to the bank and get one printed….which guarantees the funds are there…. If you use your bank to pay direct debits you will pay a charge…. They will have your money earning money on deposit elsewhere but they will still charge you…….. to put it simply if you start off with a certain amount just using your bank as you would say in england will reduce that amount by quite a large sum ….. if you had been dealing with a uk bank you might well have earnt an extra penny or two…

We have three banks here…… our biggest mistake was opening one with unicredita in pescara … they have still not managed to send us a statement because we opened with the help of a company based there and were using an english address … despite visiting sister branches in teramo and communicating to them that we would like all correspondence sent to our italian address none has arrived…. In all we have made three attempts…. Eighteen months later still nothing has happened…. We have now attempted to close this account down but had to leave around e100 in it to cover those costs….

Our second bank is much better and more helpful….. we still pay all the charges but to reduce the affect of these we tend to withdraw cash in large amounts…. We never use their bancomat…they call it free….have not bothered to read their charges but its most probably around 50cents every time you do…. Nobody will take their cheques….. you get issued with a ten page book…. If you make a mistake on one you need to take it back to your bank so that they can account for the bit of paper….don’t just tear it up….. you also have to learn to write them properly…. The written part is all joined up….just one continuous word…. The figures part you replace commas with dots and dots with commas…. Eg 10.000,00 equals 10,000.00 if you get it wrong its not valid… the problem withdrawing large amounts of cash from this bank is that they often don’t have it….when I say large I do not mean horrendously large I mean sort of living expense large…say e3000… sometimes you have to wait for the money van to arrive.. why do it this way ….. because no one takes cheques…credit cards cost to have so it’s the most efficient and lees beneficial to your banks profit margin…

Our third bank is a dream….. it is part of the coop… they have local banks in every region….they are efficient polite and friendly….. they still charge but you are almost happy to pay….. this one was recommended by our accountant and is the best yet…..

As in all things here if you can take your time and get an independent recommendation it’s the best way….

And if I can just say this….. all my italian friends and believe or not they are numerous also complain avidly about the banks …. Not only them but everyone you do business here with will almost certainly want cash….. why … apart from tax … because the banks charge them so much….even the notary will be happier to get his payment part in cash…. So get used to wandering around with wads of money….

And to put a lid on this…. I think that its all very well selling italy as a dream…. But reality and this forum have always seemed synonymous … so whats wrong with it…. People have complained on here about the tv programmes showing everything as wonderful …. I happen to live here and all I am doing is reporting another side of life… I don’t want to scare people off but does it hurt to be informed …. Is there a suggestion to the people that don’t like getting bitten by mosquitoes that they must have been stupid to move here in the first place … and now maybe because they don’t like them to pack up and go back home….. I and none of my italian neighbours enjoy the little beasts either…. So maybe when someone is planning a move and they are trying to budget on what life will cost them here it might be helpful to know….

As to why I live here….that’s an easy and essentially simple question to reply to… I like the people…and as a addendum to that ….i would not choose to live in most of italy… I choose abruzzo … because that is the region I like the most ….. and where I can happily watch programs here on italian tv reporting all these problems in other areas and hardly ever mentioning the place…. And then go out and over a glass of wine pick up threads of conversation and join in the debates that all italians seem to have over banks ,schooling, doctors and government …. And as of yet none of my italian neighbours have ever suggested that my points of views about mosquito’s, banks or tax should result in either being expelled from or a voluntary move from my home…..because they happen to in general coincide with their own…. They seem much less fragile in their own confidence about italy being the best place to live

Ja, well, my bank just got bought by another.

First, they don't tell me everything about it I should know (they posted my mail to an old address and it takes a couple of days to change addresses, so they say. So, my account number changed and I could not access the account on line. Neither could I call them back as the automated reply beat me, in spite of my using all the tricks. Pulleaaase.

Then they debit my monthly rent twice, then refunded it. Now they have not paid the rent for February to my landlady's bank, although they relieved me of the bucks.

No further interest from them as their records say it was paid, in spite of strong evidence to the contrary.

Luckily for me, my landlady is a darling and is doing her best to find out what went wrong.

I am reliably informed that failure to carry out a mandate to pay something like monthly rent (canone) renders the bank liable, but I would hate to try it on.

Meanwhile, pazienza, pazienza.

In South Africa, banks process paper within 24 hours, but that never happens in Europe. It's because the banks make more money that way.

Ernie

To give people who haven't yet experienced the joys of an Italian bank account some idea of the cost of having one, I have just learned after a long session in the bank with the manager that I am paying 166 euros p.a. in total for the privilege.This is mainly charges but includes taxes and the "bollo".My account is in credit but hardly used at the moment.Apart from the cost I have no complaint about the bank (Banca Toscana).Am I being over-charged?

Reading through this thread, i'm coming to the conclusion that ....

a - there is no option, I need to have an Italian account so as to pay local utilities etc

b - they are all expensive to run

c - service varies and it's generally 'pot luck'

d - I have to open an account in person at the branch

Is this correct?

We're on our way over there next month and this is all a great help :)

...and another thing..... we had someone from ireland buying a house near us.... she had to transfer funds to her bank in italy.....her irish bank seemed to misinterpret rules here about amounts and told her to transfer sums at less than 12000 euro each time... because of italian rules....which she did..... when she arrived to get the money to buy the house the bank manager asked why she had done it this way.... because thats how the irish bank told her to do it..... which is fine.... except that there is a rule here about moving money...its part of the anti mafia money laundering laws ....and because this person had transferred all her money at just below this limit she is now required to explain herself... because it all looked too suspicious.... it just gets more complicated the further you look.... best thing...just accept it....but also budget it in..... and as others have mentioned they are in general very nice people....especially the more regional banks.... and this ladies bank manager treated it all as a bit of a joke...despite now having to fill in tons of paper to explain what happened

So far my opinion of Italian banks is pretty high. The person I am dealing with has been very very quick in responding to my queries (in perfect English!) and has offered to facilitate an introduction to the bank in the region I am interested in, and open a bank account for me. This all in a matter of 48 hours.

If first impressions count for anything - I am very very impressed so far.

Adriatica - I like your suggestion of taking a bottle of wine and a chair with you to the post office. Everytime I have been down to the Italian Embassy here we have ended up having a great time chatting to others waiting to be served. The consul staff are very friendly, and the whole atmosphere is great if you are not in too much of a rush.

So my local Posta just got an ATM. "Very convenient" thinks ernie..

So now I find from my mail that it charges €8 to withdraw €200.

Robbery, plain and simple.

Ernie

We are thinking of opening an offshore euro account in Jersey. Money easily available on cards and no charge transfers to accounts. Am I just dreaming? comments would be welcomed.

The reason most of us have Italian bank accounts and pay extortionate charges is that we have to pay utility bills by direct debit or standing order, you cannot do that with a foreign bank (I don't believe so anyway) We pay our supermarket and shopping bills with a credit card, exchange rates for these are excellent and getting cash isn't a problem as with our Nationwide Flex account we can withdraw cash from any ATM without charge.
I would be interested to hear more about the offshore accounts and what they can provide.

Susi

We opened one with Lloyds TSB. They only charge £50 a year for £ and € accounts and are one of the few to give you a debit card. Barclays wanted to charge €5 for each cash withdrawal!

There is no charge for using the debit card BUT shortly after opening the account, they started charging for withdrawing Euros from our Euro account via the cashpoint (how can that be right???)

Lloyds TSB are a nightmare to deal with and they online banking is very poor. For example I cannot transfer money from my £ account to my € account online I have to call them up in Jersey. Why? - who knows. It was such an absolute nightmare to get the account opened, we are not sure what to do now and the thought of having to open another one elsewhere is enough to make me want to lie down in a dark room for several days. :eek:

There is definitely a gap in the market for someone to provide an offshore bank account with free cash withdrawals in Europe and a debit card.