112 Purchase tax on land

hi,Sandra,the price of land ,as in most countries, varies greatly from area to area,it also will be more or less expensive depending if its arable cultivated land/pasture etc,working vinyards/fruttetti,of course if it's "useless"land for cultivation ie. rock masses,brambles bits of non particular wood land a lot less.
it will vary depending on which region you're talking about as well as what it borders on.You could be looking at costs between Euro 8.000 up to Euro 16.000,00 per hectare..depends.

This is uncultivated land/woods near Bologna is their a list available that quotes the average price of land by area?

thanks

hi,the quickest,easiest way to find out the information you require is to ask a geometra in that area,you'll need one anyway to draw up plans for the house,restoration,and to oversee any building work and they handle these sort of things daily.
good luck

the problem with land prices as always is there are no rules.... you say you are buying a property with land..... the price of the land can be adjusted to have more of the value put onto the house...lower tax rate ..... ther are perils involved in this strategy.... any registered neighbouring farmer has also to be consulted as to if they want to buy the land at the price you are paying..... they have an option to buy over a period of a year and a day...or some such strange number.... this is important for you to know how many neighbours have this right.... because at compromesso time if the land is important for you to have then you must state in the compromesso that the owner has to get all neighbours with rights to sign to say they will not take up their option and you should also include a date for when you purchase for all these to be signed...... hence values of land are hard to determine in general because of the tax avoidance issue..... here in abruzzo land can run from e3000 - e12000 ... as agricultural land...

but for example if i was buying a property for e100,000 with 10 hectares with a notional value of 50,000 euro for the land i might well have the house price adjusted to 70,000 euro and the land at 30,000

so the best thing is to get your agent to advise you how much you can reduce the land price by .... how many neighbours have an interest in that land ..... and more relevant if any want to buy it.....

at this stage you can then also reverse the situation....reduce the house price...add to the land price and pay more tax...but make any options to buy very unattractive to any neighbours.....

i would suggest that whoever your local agent is will know most of this very well....advise from a distance is ok... for a general idea.... but local knowledge is best....so get whoever is working for you to give you a bit of good local advice on your best way forward..... i think you might notice that as in all things here its how you interpret things ....to make them work for you..... being the sole objective

hope the above will maybe help either clarify or muddle things even further

Thanks John - Reallly useful.

Sandra

I thought John's advice was spot on - but one wee addition for general info (though probably not relevant to you if considring 80 acres!!). We bought a house with 5000 sq.m. in the middle of a mainly agricultural area, but with residential farmhouses on most adjacent plots of land. Prior to completion, we paid to have our plot re-registered as "urban" - which ensures that neighbours lose the right to purchase that John referred to.

We then did as John suggested and set the % of the purchase price attributed as land to the minimum possible value in conjunction with our Estate Agent to minimise the (higher) tax payable on that component of the sale without under-declaring its worth. So the moral is - find a local agent who knows the ropes, bombard him with questions until you are satisfied that he is on the ball and above board, then be guided by him as to the most cost effective way to proceed given the circumstances of your particular land/house.

The rights that John is referring to are called Diritti di Prelazione (rights of pre-emption) and relate to neighbours whether they are coltivatori diretti and own adjacent land or tenant farmers. This is something that tends to be generally overlooked by many people buying properties.

You need to write to these neighbours (I think they have 60 days or so to respond) advising them of your intentions but don’t assume that they are happy for you proceed just because they may not respond to your letter. If they are prepared not to exercise their rights they must say so in writing.

John is also right in stating that there are no firm rules, as these seem to be in a constant state of change. I would agree that your agent (or a local solicitor if you are using one) is the best person to sort this out for you. A good agent will go in, negotiate and obtain a favourable result.

However, the nominal value of land and buildings pertaining to a particular property is contained at the local registry office and the tax you normally pay will be based on these values.

One cautionary note though…be careful not to value the property/land below the nominal value contained at the registry…doing so will only get the tax man on your case.

charles to pick up on apoint regarding pre-emption is this something the buyer has to do,contacting the surrounding neighbours, we have been advised by our agent that it is the responsibility of the vendor, to obtain in writing that the neighbours will not claim pre emption rights. ciao marco

Marco...

You are of course quite right...the vendor is responsible but since a vendor may not bother to do this, it is still in the buyer's best interests to check that neighbours have been advised and that they have responded within the given time.

thanks charles this will be one to remind our solicitor to do!

[quote=pigro;709]I thought John's advice was spot on - but one wee addition for general info (though probably not relevant to you if considring 80 acres!!). We bought a house with 5000 sq.m. in the middle of a mainly agricultural area, but with residential farmhouses on most adjacent plots of land. Prior to completion, we paid to have our plot re-registered as "urban" - which ensures that neighbours lose the right to purchase that John referred to.

Dear Pigro,

May I ask, as the buyer, how were you able to have the land you were buying re-registed as "urban" before completing the rogito? Did this take long and was it complicated? Sounds like an interesting option when the options are starting to disappear!

Hi Simone, sorry, didn't see this until I got notified of your PM by email (I'm not on the forum much these days).
[quote=simone-non-martini;86722]
Dear [B][color=red]Pigo[/B][/color],
[/quote]
I won't take that as an insult :-)

[quote=simone-non-martini;86722]
May I ask, as the vendor, ....
[/quote]
for avoidance of doubt, I was the buyer, not the vendor

[quote=simone-non-martini;86722]
how were you able to have the land you were buying re-registed as "urban" beofre completing the rogito? [/quote]
I decided I wanted this done (a) to guarantee no possibility of cock-up's on the diritti di prelazione front, as my parcel of land had previously been part of a farmers field (b) to accurately reflect the actual change of usage of the land; (c) to help apportion the minimum legally acceptable value to the land (to minimise tax burden). As this was of no consequence either way to the vendor, I asked the estate agent acting for me to arrange this on my behalf.
He got the vendor's agreement to make the change prior to the sale and he then got the local geometra to deal with the paperwork, comune etc. I obviously paid all the associated costs (around €2000 IIRC) as it was purely at my request and for my benefit.

[quote=simone-non-martini;86722]Did this take long and was it complicated?
[/quote]
I wasn't very involved in the process (other than paying the bill!). I got quoted the price for the re-registration around Xmas and the rogito was signed mid-Feb so I suppose it was done in about 6 weeks but that's a guess. I had (still have!) a very good relationship with both agent & geometra, and we'd all agreed in principle that this should be done long before any costs were quantified - so he may well have set wheels in motion beforehand.

[quote=simone-non-martini;86722]Sounds like an interesting option when the options are starting to disappear![/quote] not sure what you mean, but the conventional way to avoid pre-emption rights is simply to get a written confirmation from any eligible neighbours that they waive their right. A lot cheaper than reclassifying the land unless you have other reasons for wishing to do so.

Thanks so much and apologies... Pigro for my hasty typo,

Problem is we don't know who the neighbour is, we are far away, and the vendor has not bothered to attend to it and seems a little lost in regard to the sales procedure. This is annoying as we have been negotiating for about 8 months. There was so much time in which the vendor could have attended to this. We are worried if they do decide they want the land (even though it would make no sense, you never know) that we may loose it and therefore see only option as setting a high purchase price on it....which means paying a lot of extra taxes at 18%. As things are very tight for us money wise and time wise -- we are trying to find a the best option. Have also considered buying the house and waiting till the vendor re-registers the remaining part of agricultural land and buying that then later. At least then we will have had time to get more money together. We also cannot afford to delay any longer as we are relocating in Italy and this is all co-ordinated with work etc. Does the notaio have to check that the vendor has offered the land to the neighbour at the rogito?

[quote=simone-non-martini;86743]Does the notaio have to check that the vendor has offered the land to the neighbour at the rogito?[/quote]

I have no idea - as I'd circumvented it as a potential issue I paiid no further attention to it. Hopefully one of the property professionals on here can answer.

Thanks. I hope so!

[quote=simone-non-martini;86743]
Problem is we don't know who the neighbour is, we are far away, and the vendor has not bothered to attend to it and seems a little lost in regard to the sales procedure. [/quote]

You seem to be keen to go ahead with this purchase, so if the right of prelazione worries you all you need to do is to contact a geometra local to the house. He can, with about two mouse clicks, discover exactly who any neighbours are, and whether they are the sort of neighbours who could excercise these rights. The geometra could also ask any relevant neighbours for a written statement saying that they do not wish to buy the bit of land.

That is stage one, (and going by the drips of information which you have scattered in various threads, it doesn't sound likely that any sane neighbour wants the little bit of your garden which is still classified as agricultural.) However, if some neighbour really truly covets this little plot, the geometra can move ahead to stage two, and follow the route pigro has outlined - getting it reclassified as urbano (part of a corte attached to a house). This should be straightforward, (although I have never been involved in any reclassification where there was the potential for a neighbour to argue). So let us hope it is all done and dusted in stage one, and then (at your leisure) you can get it all reclassified to avert any future problems when you come to sell on.

Stop worrying. Worrying is futile. If you can do something about the worry (and you can!) just do it. Find a local geometra (someone here might be able to recommend one if you are precise about the location of the house).

Thank you for your kind reply. Panic does seem to take over every now and then. Have discovered a geometra in the area -- will see if there is still time for him to do as you suggest. What a great forum this is - I am so glad that there are so many interested and generous participants out there. Look forward to conversing about some other more engaging topics and delights of Italy at some stage when this is all over. Cheers.