156 Legal Costs

I'm completing on a property in two week time I've been told that the costs for the Notary are going to be about 10% of the purchase price, once I've completed I'll let you know.

The full structure survey cost me 500 Euro

JHowell want 1500-2000€ for a full survey. I got a quote from a geometra in Italy for €400.

I am still going to use JHowell tho (has anyone used Ourtoscana), for the legal stuff -

We have found differing prices from professionals, all of which can be negotiated. There doesn't seem to be set costs as there are in the UK. However we have persuaded an italian lawyer to draw up a list of 'normal' costings to give buyers half a chance of knowing what sort of figure they should be paying. Will post it on our news/info page of our web site when its done.

Fees for notaries are not normally expressed as percentages but are set according to a national tariff with a minimum and a maximum. Notaries fees are non-negotiable because they are set by law.

As far as solicitors are concerned...fees will vary as it very much depends what you want them to do on your behalf.

Survey fees depend on the type and condition of the property, the distance the surveyor has to travel from his/her office and what your requirements are. It is one thing to have a straight forward preliminary survey...it is something else to have a comprehensive survey that includes a geological survey of the land.

When instructing surveyers (architects or a geometras) or solicitors...be very clear from the outset what your requirements are and what your overall budget is.

Ageological survey - are you saying that its important to have a siesmic survey - surely if there are other older houses around then surely there is no problem?

i would have said the fees being quoted for a full survey are very cheap.... by full what do you get exactley..... because i would say depending on age and size of the building a full survey will take at leats a days work.... ie testing for humidity in the wall.... inspecting beams and their condition...some surveys require the digging out of the walls at the end of the beam to check condition..... checking the structure of the ground around the building...especially if old... and there are no foundations..... often when people move into older houses they want to change lots of things outside....sometimes draining off natural damp areas from clay soil can easily lead to subsidence and then the building falling apart....
so if you are going to spend money on a survey and you think there are problems there will not be many surveyors that work and give a report for e400 that will have any substantial value.... i would think... ????
as regards notary fees they are often expressed as a percentage because they also include the tax you will pay on purchase and in general it will work out at aprox ten % of the amount you pay for the house and then agents fees on top.....even notarys seem to like cash payments for part of their work... so that figure is somewhat of a rough guide which is often quoted to give people buying an overall figure of what they will end up paying... and can also be affected by your status as resident or non... second or first home...etc etc....

Although Notary fees are set by a tariffario nazionale, they are not easily predictable a priori, even if the tariff ranges from a minimum to a maximum. It would be incorrect to state that they are fixed or that they are expressed as a percentage because it is impossible to accurately determine what they will be due to the fact that the Notaio charges according to the complexity of the case. Imposte di registro, Ipotecarie and Catastali are normally expressed as percentages, although if you are buying the house as your prima casa, the imposta ipotecaria and catastale are fixed.

Legge Finanziaria 2005 (n.311/2004) contains all relevant information on tax and stamp duty payable.

To answer the question about geological surveys...at least 98% of Italy is classified as seismic and if you are buying a derelict rural property that has been abandoned for many years, then it would be wise to include a geological survey, especially if the house is in an isolated spot in a region prone to seismic activity.

This type of survey will establish whether there is evidence of any potentially hazardous geomorphologic processes. When you are embarking on a renovation project…the last thing you want is to buy a house in an area that is considered naturally unstable.

I'm interested in the postings about survey costs but my concern was with search costs as we are having a new property built. J Howell's Italian associates are quoting us about 3,000 euro for the searches and this seems a bit excessive. This is over and above the 2,000 euro for their standard service.

Also the comment that the Notary's fee is 10% confuses me even more. Okay I don't know the price of the property but everything I've read says the total addition purchase costs should be about 16% of the purchase price. If this is the case I wouldn't expect the Notary's costs to be such a big part of these additional costs. Am I totally underestimating what the additional costs are going to be?

Hope this help,

These are the Notary Fees for my property which cost 55,000 Euro.

The calculations are ready from the Notary

E6,250 if you are declaring holiday home

E3,850 if you are declaring this your primary residence

(the notary said if you were 'iscritto' at the A.I.R.E. (associazione italiana residente estero) you would automatically be able to declare primary residence without having to have actual residence)

ciao libero
can you break these costs down as these seem rather expensive just for the notary, are these total costs you have to pay including taxes etc, thanks ciao marco

[QUOTE=brendangfc]I'm interested in the postings about survey costs but my concern was with search costs as we are having a new property built. J Howell's Italian associates are quoting us about 3,000 euro for the searches and this seems a bit excessive. This is over and above the 2,000 euro for their standard service.

Also the comment that the Notary's fee is 10% confuses me even more. Okay I don't know the price of the property but everything I've read says the total addition purchase costs should be about 16% of the purchase price. If this is the case I wouldn't expect the Notary's costs to be such a big part of these additional costs. Am I totally underestimating what the additional costs are going to be?[/QUOTE]

Hi brendangfc, 3000 euros for preliminary searches seems truly excessive to me, especially seeing as the notary will perform these searches before completion anyway. You can do searches on titles etc in the land registry yourself for a few euros, or get someone else to do it for you for a few hundred. A survey should cost around 300 euros, no more.

The notary fee is not 10%, the purchases taxes or VAT come to 10%. If you are buying from a company, you'll pay 10% VAT to the seller; if you are buying from a private individual you'll pay around 10% to the notary who will pay the taxes on your behalf. The notary fee will probably be around 1500 - 3000 euros.

Sarah Ferrara
[URL=http://www.gardahomes.co.uk]Garda Homes[/URL]

[QUOTE=brendangfc]We contacted John Howell & Co with a view to them acting for us on our Italian property purchase. Due to volume of work they suggested we use their Italian associates. However, the Italian costs seem to be much higher. Anyone any advice on what sort of level of fees we should expect to be paying?[/QUOTE]

I can't comment on fees, my business partner undertook all the legal work for me so all it cost was a few bottles of wine and a good dinner or two. I suggest that you look very carefully at using a local lawyer, rather than an international company. It really helps you in your adopted community to use local people.

The Notaio is a public official and will insist upon fair play throughout and will review the work of your lawyer in considerable detail. The importance of a lawyer is really in relationship to CGT and inheritance taxation, because the UK Inland Revenue consider that they have a right to whack you for IHT even though the Italian state will not carge inheritance taxes. There are also issuesrelated to disposition of the estate that need thrashing out.

Hi Libero,
Re; Your march post.

When we completed in Oct 2004 we were told that from August 2004 Berlusconis government had rescinded the tax laws & therefore it would not be to our advantage to apply for residency as the tax we would have paid, claiming the house to be our primary residence, would be the same as a holiday home, so we ended up paying 7% of the total price.
Were we given bum info?
Ciao
Rob

[QUOTE=marco]ciao libero
can you break these costs down as these seem rather expensive just for the notary, are these total costs you have to pay including taxes etc, thanks ciao marco[/QUOTE]
Hi Marco

it's the total cost.

[QUOTE=Rob]Hi Libero,
Re; Your march post.

When we completed in Oct 2004 we were told that from August 2004 Berlusconis government had rescinded the tax laws & therefore it would not be to our advantage to apply for residency as the tax we would have paid, claiming the house to be our primary residence, would be the same as a holiday home, so we ended up paying 7% of the total price.
Were we given bum info?
Ciao
Rob[/QUOTE]

Hi Rob

This is the Notary name and address
Ambrosini Andrea
Via Salara, 35
65013 Citta' Sant'angelo (PE) -
Tel 085.9500751 /731

I will ring the agent I used on Monday and get back to you.

Ciao Libero,
Any luck?
Rob

[QUOTE=Rob]Ciao Libero,
Any luck?
Rob[/QUOTE]
Sorry about the delay I've been told by that A.I.R.E is still in place, but they will check and get back to me and I'm still waiting.

I'll give them until the middle of the week, if I don't hear from them I'll ring them.

[QUOTE=Rob]Ciao Libero,
Any luck?
Rob[/QUOTE]

The notary got back about the AIRE , according to him there has been no new/old law passed/changed, he said he has registered the act, if nothing comes back (and it will happen very quickly if there is something considered incorrect) this will be the definate answer....

This is the message i've had back from the agent I used hope this helps Rob

[QUOTE=brendangfc]We contacted John Howell & Co with a view to them acting for us on our Italian property purchase. Due to volume of work they suggested we use their Italian associates. However, the Italian costs seem to be much higher. Anyone any advice on what sort of level of fees we should expect to be paying?[/QUOTE]
IF YOU GO TO THE END COULD COST YOU AS MUCH AS BAYING YOUR SOLICITOR HOUSE AS WELL AS FOR YOURSELF. JUST JOKING BUT CLOSE
JC1

[QUOTE=Rob]Hi Libero,
Re; Your march post.

When we completed in Oct 2004 we were told that from August 2004 Berlusconis government had rescinded the tax laws & therefore it would not be to our advantage to apply for residency as the tax we would have paid, claiming the house to be our primary residence, would be the same as a holiday home, so we ended up paying 7% of the total price.
Were we given bum info?
Ciao
Rob[/QUOTE]
SOUNDS LIKE IT

[QUOTE=libero]Hope this help,

These are the Notary Fees for my property which cost 55,000 Euro.

The calculations are ready from the Notary

E6,250 if you are declaring holiday home

E3,850 if you are declaring this your primary residence

(the notary said if you were 'iscritto' at the A.I.R.E. (associazione italiana residente estero) you would automatically be able to declare primary residence without having to have actual residence)[/QUOTE]
INTERESTING MORE DETAILS IF POSSIBLE
JC1

[QUOTE=jc1]INTERESTING MORE DETAILS IF POSSIBLE
JC1[/QUOTE]

what details would you like

Sorry to impose, but intriguing comment made by JC1's notary re those being registered in AIRE having right to claim primary residence. This might also have implications with regard to electricity payments (ENEL). Would it perhaps be possible to get citation of such information, bet yet, the documentation itself?

Grazie!!

Casale in Abruzzo
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/film/casale[/url]

How does one register at the A.I.R.E.

[QUOTE=Ian and Sandra]How does one register at the A.I.R.E.[/QUOTE]

A.I.R.E. means Anagrafe Italiani Residenti Estero or, in english
Register of the Italians Resident Abroad
So you have to be italian.

As a foreign citizen you can have "prima casa", that is first house tax reduction, only if you live permanently (residenza) in the city where you're buyng your house or if you work there.

ENEL sent me the form necessary for the reduction of electricity costs. Can forward to anyone interested. The electricity tariff is reduced from D3 to D2. As mentioned, this applies to Italian citizens or dual citizens not living in Italy and who are the owners of a home in their Italian comune of residence or work.

Casale-Everything but the Bidet
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/film/casale[/url]