Il Papa
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 04/04/2005 - 03:33In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=ronald]What has been particularly encouraging has been the amount of tributes coming in from all political viewpoints and faiths. It demonstrates that even if the Pope often frustrated people with some of his opinions on sexual ethics his viewpoints of human rights found resonance across.
Sano, as you may have noticed the frontpage of [url="http://www.italymag.co.uk"]http://www.italymag.co.uk[/url] pays its own small tribute to the passing of this man that for all Italians aged 40 and under is the only Pope they really remember.[/QUOTE]
Hi Ronald,
I noticed the piece on the front page and appreciate it greatly. I am also amazed at the fact that political and religious opponents have stopped squabbling for long enough to pay tribute to the Pope.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Pope John Paul II has touched the lives of so many.
I have two friends who have absolutely no interest in any religion and both of them have expressed their sorrow at his passing.
Whilst not agreeing with some of his views, I think he truly was a remarkable man.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=janie]Pope John Paul II has touched the lives of so many.
I have two friends who have absolutely no interest in any religion and both of them have expressed their sorrow at his passing.
Whilst not agreeing with some of his views, I think he truly was a remarkable man.[/QUOTE]
I feel much the same. Even though I felt that some of his views were repressive, I do respect the fact that he held to them because that is how he interpreted the teachings of the Gospel and understood things to be. He did everything from a very good place in his heart and whilst many may disagree with some of his actions and beliefs, I do not think they would question his integrity or faith.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Ronald - was John Paul II not the third longest serving Pope rather than THE longest serving pope?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=neilmcn]Ronald - was John Paul II not the third longest serving Pope rather than THE longest serving pope?[/QUOTE]
indeed - duly noted and corrected.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
everyone here seems to feel that the whole thing is over the top.... we have had seven national channels showing nothing else for the last five days ..... what has amazed me most is that no one bothers talking about it outside the tv....
last night while have dinner with neighbours the subject came up....because they had not shown the grand prix..... i know italy is regarded as a catholic country but here they seem to take this sort of thing very lightly and made a lot of jokes about his passing.....
i am in no way religious and can only say i find no excuses for an institution that promotes the poverty and death in africa with its anti birth control... its almost total contempt of women ... and its vast wealth kept by the few for thew few.....
whilst ill it was strange to see him being trundled back and forth to hospital with more body guards running along side the car than an american president.....
hopefully soon television will get back to normal and we can once again forget about it all..... in this village with church we cannot get a priest to come on a sunday unless he is paid....
... note also that you have to declare here that you do nt want part of your income tax to go to the vatican
hopefully have not offeneded anyone with my own personal views.... generally try to stay off religion.... and at the end of it all its never good to see anyone die.... but he had a good long life...
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thank you John. I've tried to compose several replies to this thread today, but chickened out on the basis that I didn't want to offend anyone.
However I agree with you - and would add that given the paucity of priests and regular church attenders, plus Italy having the lowest birth rate in the world, it would seem that the Vatican's world view is at best irrelevant.
Il Papa
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 04/05/2005 - 04:01In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The subject of religion and politics is always a sensitive one and hence the reasons why not many people seem happy to comment (especially for those of us who are not particularly religious) about the death of Pope John Paul II.
The Vatican has had a longstanding tradition as it were, of communicating contradictory and ambiguous messages over the centuries and I guess it is no surprise to note that widespread religiosity, despite it remaining the cultural norm here in Italy, and Catholicism’s hold on society has weakened with the passage of time.
John Paul’s pontificate has undeniably been long and influential, albeit controversial at times. He has, on many occasions, departed from ecclesiastical tradition with regard to civil society and the coexistence of other religious faiths. Despite the general decline in support for the Catholic Church, he has been very popular nonetheless and I would imagine that it is because of this popularity we are seeing the crowds of the faithful gathering in many parts of the world to pay their respects.
Moreover, the Vatican is a state and the Pope is the head of that state and so it should come as no surprise to see Italy uniting to pay tribute and to bid farewell to John Paul II. Despite his health problems he had a good life and a long one at that. It was sad to see how enfeebled he was recently. May he now rest in peace!
Here in the Marche, in Ripatransone to be precise, the ancient festival of the Cavallo di Fuoco that dates back to 1682 has been postponed for a week as a mark of respect so the fact that no grand prix was shown on TV is no big deal.
It would be interesting to have some Italian visitors to forum express their views about their expectations of John Paul’s successor. Although I take a laissez-faire approach with regards to religious doctrine, I’m not entirely convinced with the argument that the Vatican’s view of the world is at best irrelevant. This presents a too simplistic interpretation of the relationship between society, politics and religion, which, it is worth noticing, are immensely influential elements of not only today’s world but of tomorrow’s world.
Il papa
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 04/06/2005 - 03:20In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Well, all that I can say is that the way that His Holiness met his fate was a deeply inspiring witness.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]Well, all that I can say is that the way that His Holiness met his fate was a deeply inspiring witness.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The man was the living embodiment of his faith. Whether we agree with some of his policies is neither here nor there, he did a lot for the world at large and deserves to be honoured for that.
There are always those who like nothing more than to tear down and complain and point out the shortcomings of others, never wanting to acknowledge the achievements or good in those they complain about or stopping to look at their own lives and asking themselves what they themselves have done to better the lot of man.
rome under stress
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 04/06/2005 - 10:19In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
for anyone planning to travel to rome in the next days keep in mind that the situation si quite bad, with people wanting to pay tribute in person to the pope.
this morning on my italian mobile I got a message from the protezione civile of rome (apparently they've messaged everyone they could) saying:
"if you are going to Rome to pay tribute please opt for public tranport, prepare yourself for organised but VERY long queues, hot at day and fresh in the evening"
more that a million people have already queued to file past the Pope.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Latest news we have received is that the estimated number of people expected to descend on Rome for Friday's funeral has been revised upward to 5 million. Apparently there are 2 million Poles working their way to Rome by whatever means possible.
I have also heard that guests at some hotels have been moved to lower rated establishments to make room for heads of state and accompanying entourages. Also, all flights to Ciampino have been cancelled for the 7th and 8th of April.
Strange
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 04/07/2005 - 04:45In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I have just returned from a two day trip to Italy, my wife and I flew into Rome on Sunday and back out on Tuesday, this was pre-planned before the death of the Pope.
On the Sunday morning as we flew into Rome the pilot of the plane banked over the Vatican to show us the crowds and announced this to the passengers.
The papers and TV were full of the news, even MTV ran text messages across the bottom of the screen along the lines of ciao Papa etc.
The strange point of this trip was that no one talked about it, not even once.
Please can anyone explain if I have missed something, I would have thought it would have been spoken about on the street and in the shops?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Viola]I have just returned from a two day trip to Italy, my wife and I flew into Rome on Sunday and back out on Tuesday, this was pre-planned before the death of the Pope.
On the Sunday morning as we flew into Rome the pilot of the plane banked over the Vatican to show us the crowds and announced this to the passengers.
The papers and TV were full of the news, even MTV ran text messages across the bottom of the screen along the lines of ciao Papa etc.
The strange point of this trip was that no one talked about it, not even once.
Please can anyone explain if I have missed something, I would have thought it would have been spoken about on the street and in the shops?[/QUOTE]
Apparently it has been big news in some areas and no news in others - I guess it depends on the peoples relative regard for the church and interest in the Pope.
Certainly in Ireland it has remained big news. All flags are flying at half mast still and there is a special Mass at the Pope's Cross in the Phoenix Park tomorrow evening.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
italy consists of a population of 50 million plus..... most are cathiolic by tradition .... however apart from big feasts very few bother with church.....and most seem to have a pragmatic view of the vatican that it exists but is hardly relevant in their daily lives.....
again yesterday having coffee with neighbours it did come up..... more as a curiosity about how they managed to keep the body looking good for so long...burials here happen very quickly after death in general....and the fact that they would not bother wasting their time going all that way and spending all that time in queues.... some thought it was sad to see little children waiting up to 20 hrs with dedicated parents... to see a dead body....... my neighbours are normal middle to old age people and attend church when the priest does visit... once he has been paid that is...
as regards bettering the lot of man i think we all do that every day...every one with a child that looks after them and helps them.... who has a friendly chat with a neighbour or just manages to work hard and do that every day thru their own sickness and health.... those billions of ordinary people that just live and die without any fuss... those people suffering with parkinsons...... who are waiting desperately for the research to go ahead...despite the vatican.... who dont have servants to help ... where wives and husbands have to cope and see what we saw beamed via the vatican of the debilitating nature of it all and yet they have little or no help
i look at all these lives and i feel at peace with mine and have the utmost respect for those that choose to live their lives in their own way... church or not....
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
again yesterday having coffee with neighbours it did come up..... more as a curiosity about how they managed to keep the body looking good for so long...burials here happen very quickly after death in general....and the fact that they would not bother wasting their time going all that way and spending all that time in queues.... some thought it was sad to see little children waiting up to 20 hrs with dedicated parents... to see a dead body....... my neighbours are normal middle to old age people and attend church when the priest does visit... once he has been paid that is...
I find it interesting that In your region of Abruzzo, finding a priest to host a mass is becoming difficult, and furthermore a shame to have to pay for such services. A sign of the times? probably. But who do you blame the church or the people of your town for not organizing a proper parish.
I live in Canada , own a home in Campania in a town called Cervinara. Near my house in Campania there are three Catholic churches open most days, and masses full every Sunday.
I myself grew up catholic, my father was a Catholic principal in the education system in Canada. I myself do not follow the church anymore, but am still greatful to the church for what they've offered my family at least.
I am sad with the passing of the Pope, i am very proud of the Pope, forthe life he has led. Saying that i don't think its sad that Parents are dragging their kids along with them , waiting in line twenty hours to see a dead body.
What bothers me is watching the news and seeing that certain people are getting to spend more time and avoiding the long lines to view the body of the Pope. These include the media and certain Government officials. I watched on CNN how insignificant news journalists got in to see the pope before the 5 million Catholics that were waiting. that is a shame.
I watched how the old and disgraced ex king of Italy got a private viewing.
In my eyes the Church does not exist alone for these people and should not be given special attention for this type of occasion.
If i were in Charge at the Vatican id make them wait at the back of the line.
Popes, Politicians and Kings
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 04/07/2005 - 12:06In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Tomba…an interesting point about the disgraced ex king and other visiting dignitaries….
Did you know that up until 1870 the pope exercised not only spiritual power but also temporal power in Italy. He was the absolute ruler of Lazio, Umbria, Marche and Romagna, the so-called Papal States, whose capital was Rome.
However, it was the Savoia who had in fact helped to annexe the Papal States and spearhead the capture of Rome. The house of Savoia was anti-clerical, as were Italy’s politicians at the time, but today they are all queuing up to pay their respects. How things change!!!
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I saw on the BBC news website today that the mourners were also taking photos of the body using the cameras on their cell phones.............is it me or is that a bit sick?
I can understand people thinking that it's a major event in their life, but taking a photo?
......who's it going to be sent to?!??
.........why?!?!?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=tuscanhills]I saw on the BBC news website today that the mourners were also taking photos of the body using the cameras on their cell phones.............is it me or is that a bit sick?
I can understand people thinking that it's a major event in their life, but taking a photo?
......who's it going to be sent to?!??
.........why?!?!?[/QUOTE]
I have to admit that I do think it is wrong to take pictures, this is a solemn occasion, not a movie premier. Still, different people have different understandings of what reverence means.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
For those wanting to follow live coverage of this event, both RAI and BBC have it on their websites:
[url]http://www.rai.it/specialepapa[/url]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk[/url] (if you can opt for the Real1 Player - it loads faster).
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Two accounts of events in Rome today:
[b]Applause, chanting complements farewell Mass for Pope[/b]
Presidents, prime ministers and kings joined pilgrims and prelates in St Peter’s Square today to bid farewell to Pope John Paul at a funeral service that drew millions to Rome for one of the largest religious gatherings in the West of modern times.
Applause rang out in the wind-whipped square as John Paul’s simple wooden coffin adorned with a cross and the M for Mary was brought out from the basilica and placed on the ground in front of the altar. The book of the Gospel was placed on the coffin.
A choir sang the Gregorian chant Grant him Eternal rest O Lord, and the service got underway.
Cardinals wearing white mitres walked onto the square, the wind rippling their red vestments and the pages of the Gospel.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, dean of the College of Cardinals, a close confidant of John Paul and a possible successor, referred to him as our "late beloved Pope" in a homily that traced his life from his days as a factory worker in Nazi-occupied Poland to the last days of his life as the head of the world’s one billion Catholics.
Interrupted by applause at least 10 times, the usually unflappable German-born Ratzinger choked with emotion as he recalled one of John Paul’s last public appearances – when he blessed the faithful from his studio window on Easter Sunday.
He was interrupted again toward the end of the Mass by several minutes of cheers and shouts of Saint John Paul, from the crowd, seeking immediate sainthood for the late Pope.
"We can be sure that our beloved Pope is standing today at the window of the father’s house, that he sees us and blesses us," he said to applause, even among the prelates, as he pointed up to the third-floor window above the square.
"Today we bury his remains in the earth as a seed of immortality – our hearts are full of sadness, yet at the same time of joyful hope and profound gratitude," said Ratzinger in heavily-accented Italian.
He said John Paul was a "priest to the last" and said he had offered his life for God and his flock "especially amid the sufferings of his final months".
Groggy pilgrims who had camped out on the cobblestones awoke in their sleeping bags to hordes of the faithful stepping over them as they tried to secure a good spot to view the Mass. The square and the boulevard leading to it were a sea of red and white flags waved by pilgrims from John Paul's beloved Poland, many in traditional dress shouting "Polska! Polska!"
"We just wanted to say goodbye to our father for the last time," said Joanna Zmijewsla, 24, who travelled for 30 hours with her brother Szymon from a town near Kielce, Poland, and arrived at St. Peter’s at 1am today.
Before the Mass began, American Archbishop James Harvey, head of papal protocol, greeted black-clad dignitaries and religious leaders as they emerged from St Peter’s onto the steps. Many of the officials shook Harvey’s hand and offered condolences before mingling and taking their appointed seats.
Turbans, fezzes, yarmulkes and black lace veils, or mantillas, joined the zucchettos or skull caps of Catholic prelates on the steps of St Peter’s in an extraordinary mix of religious and government leaders from around the world.
"I’m here because I’m a believer but also to live a moment in history," said Stephan Aubert, wearing a French flag draped over his shoulders.
Bells tolled as the the last of the leaders took their places on red-cushioned wooden seats. Ten minutes before the scheduled start of the funeral, the US delegation arrived, headed by President George Bush and including his father, former President George Bush, and former President Bill Clinton.
President Bush and his wife, Laura, sat next to French President Jacques Chirac and his wife.
Rome itself was at a standstill. A ban on vehicle traffic took effect in the city centre. Air space was closed and anti-aircraft batteries outside the city were on alert. Warships patrolled both the Mediterranean coast and the Tiber River near Vatican City, the tiny sovereign city-state encompassed by the Italian capital.
Italian authorities took extraordinary precautions to protect the royalty and heads of state or government attending the funeral. Dignitaries from more than 80 countries, including the presidents of Syria and Iran, as well as Jewish and Muslim leaders, also were attending.
The Pope’s death on Saturday has evinced a remarkable outpouring of affection around the world and brought an estimated four million people to Rome to see the funeral from up close.
At least 300,000 people filled the square and Via della Conciliazione straight to the Tiber River, waving flags from the US, Croatia, Lebanon and elsewhere, many of them adorned with black ribbons of mourning. Banners read Sainthood Immediately.
Several million more watched on giant video screens set up across Rome in piazzas and at the enormous Circus Maximus, where a group of youngsters wearing t-shirts that read The Boys of Pope John Paul The Great sold a commemorative booklet about the Pontiff.
The funeral was preceded by an intimate ceremony attended only by high-ranking prelates, who placed a pouch of silver and bronze medals and a scrolled account of the Pope’s life in his coffin.
John Paul’s long-time private secretary, Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, and the master of the liturgical ceremonies, Archbishop Piero Marini, placed a white silk veil over the Pope’s face before the coffin was closed.
Dziwisz was seen weeping on several occasions during the service.
After a series of hymns, readings and the homily, Ratzinger called all to prayer.
"Dear brothers and sisters let us entrust to the most gentle mercy of God, the soul of our Pope John Paul II. … May the Blessed Virgin Mary … intercede with God so that he might show the face of his blessed Son to our pope, and console the church with the light of the Resurrection."
The Mass ended with all standing and together singing: "May the angels accompany you into heaven, may the martyrs welcome you when you arrive, and lead you to Holy Jerusalem."
After that, the body will be carried deep under St. Peter’s Basilica, where it was to join the remains of popes from centuries past near the traditional tomb of the apostle Peter, the first Pope.
On the eve of the funeral, the Vatican released John Paul’s last will and testament, written in Polish over 22 years beginning five months after his election in October 1978.
In it, John Paul said he wanted to be buried "in the bare Earth" and have prayers and Masses celebrated after his death.
He instructed his private secretary to burn his personal notes. He also suggested he considered resigning in 2000, when his infirmities were already apparent. Revising his will just three days before a historic pilgrimage to the Holy Land, John Paul prayed that God would "help me to recognise up to what point I must continue this service."
Rome groaned under the weight of visitors. Side streets were clogged in a permanent pedestrian rush hour, mostly by children with backpacks. Tent camps sprang up at the Circus Maximus and elsewhere around the city to take the spillover from hotels. Hawkers jacked up prices of everything from bottled water to papal trinkets.
[url]http://irishexaminer.12hs.com/en_US/newsfeed/story.jhtml?s=54911615&r=1754&i=6084008&d=38143681[/url]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[b]Huge throngs pray, sing in final farewell to beloved Pope[/b]
Throngs of pilgrims waved Polish flags, recited the rosary and sang hymns as they packed the cobblestone streets leading up to the Vatican today to bid an emotional farewell to Pope John Paul.
The Via della Conciliazione boulevard was jammed with tens of thousands of people, many seated on streets where they had spent a chilly night in sleeping bags or wrapped in blankets.
"This Pope was very important to us. We just came to say thank you for everything, to say goodbye to this Pope with serenity and joy," said Federica Aloisi, 21, a nursing student in Rome who had camped out on the boulevard since yesterday afternoon.
As they waited for the Pope’s funeral to begin, some sang hymns to strains of guitar music as others breakfasted on sandwiches, oranges and bottled water.
The crowd of delegates assembled on St Peter’s Square reflected the extraordinary mix of faiths and cultures: Orthodox bishops in long black robes, Arabs in checked headscarves, Central Asians in traditional lambskin caps and Western political leaders in dark suits.
Poles were everywhere, waving red and white national flags for the first Polish-born Pope.
"He was all people’s father, especially for us, the Poles," said Dominika Bolechowska, 29, an English teacher from Zakopane, Poland, who travelled 28 hours by bus and spent a night on the streets with her two-year-old son.
Up to two million Poles had been expected in Rome for the funeral, and they seemed omnipresent today, both on the streets of the capital and in tent cities set up on the outskirts.
"I spent the night in Poland over there," joked Maria Poole, a 27-year-old housewife from Minnesota, pointing to a knot of Polish pilgrims camped on a corner. "I think their entire country is here."
Poole, who now lives in Rome where her husband studies theology, was among many pilgrims who expressed their deep devotion and affection for John Paul.
"He was personal, like a father, like a grandfather. I felt that close to him. I miss him," she said, tears streaming down her face.
"I came because I love the Pope," said Sabina Lufaro, 23, a singer from Turin among the faithful trying to get close enough to St Peter’s Square to watch the funeral on one of several giant screens. "I have all this love for a very big person. He was loved by all the world."
Video screens also were set up across Rome for pilgrims who couldn’t get near Vatican City, which occupies only 109 acres.
As the Pope’s body was moved into the square, the crowd watching on the screens broke into sustained applause. But after a few chants of "Giovanni Paolo," the streets fell silent except for one man singing the Ave Maria in an operatic baritone.
Young people in jeans and backpacks mingled with nuns, priests, monks and bishops clad in religious habits on streets mostly cleared of traffic after Rome authorities imposed a day long ban on cars and trucks. Schools and government offices closed for the day, and many private businesses did not open out of respect for the pope.
City parks were dotted with tents, and people in sleeping bags dozed on benches. Some slept directly on the cobblestones, wrapped in brown blankets handed out by first aid workers.
Since John Paul’s death on Saturday, some four million pilgrims have visited Vatican City and its surroundings, Rome police chief Marcello Fulvi said.
"With his charisma, he transmitted a way of thinking that the world really needed," said Jose Artur Ribeiro, 22, studying economics in Rome.
"I came because the figure of the Pope is historic. I came to say thank you and to say goodbye," said Mercedes Serrat, a 65-year-old housewife from Madrid.
"This is the sum of the world’s feelings: thankfulness, gratitude for what he was in our lives. He was our Pope," said Vinicius Linz, 23, a medical student from Brazil.
Security was tight for the funeral, which drew heads of state and monarchs from more than 80 countries. Metal detectors were set up at the entrance to St. Peter’s, and police were running bags and purses through X-ray machines, causing the line to slow and some pilgrims to whistle and boo in protest.
Anticipating an exodus after the funeral, Rome’s city council said it was trying to organise three "human corridors" to channel people from around St Peter’s to points where they could catch shuttle buses to train stations.
[url]http://irishexaminer.12hs.com/en_US...4027&d=38143681[/url]
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Grottoes containing papal tomb to reopen to public view today
Wednesday, April 13, 2005
Nicole Winfield
Associated Press
Vatican City - The tombstone is a white slab of marble with gray streaks, tucked into an arched alcove, a leafy potted lily at the top and a small red candle burning at the bottom. A marble relief of the Madonna and Child hangs on the wall.
Pope John Paul II's name and the dates of his 26-year pontificate are carved with gold in Latin script on the front: "IOANNES PAVLVS PPII." And on another line is the date, using the Roman numerals for the month: "16 X, 1978-2 IV, 2005."
Underneath are the interlocking X and P - the monogram for Christ.
Today, the Vatican will reopen the grottoes under St. Peter's Basilica to the public, giving tourists and the faithful a first look at the late pope's tomb, tucked into its own private niche just steps from the supposed burial place of the first pontiff, St. Peter.
Journalists got a glimpse of the grottoes Tuesday ahead of the public viewing, which was to begin at 7 a.m. and is sure to draw thousands of people back to St. Peter's Square. The piazza had all but emptied in the days follow ing John Paul's funeral Friday, which drew some 500,000 people to the square and main boulevard leading to it.
John Paul specified in his will that he wanted to be buried "in the bare earth, not a tomb" and that he wanted his tombstone simple, like that of Paul VI. His wishes were granted.
His burial plot is one of only a few dug in the ground in the central nave of the grottoes, the vast series of low-ceilinged chapels and alcoves under the basilica where popes over the centuries have been buried.
Most of the popes are ensconced in above-ground marble sarcophagi, some of them, like those of Benedict XV and Pius XI, elaborately carved in the images of the man inside.
John Paul's tomb, on the other hand, is spare. It sits in an arched alcove to the right of the main altar of the central nave.
The alcove lies just a few steps from two of the four women buried in the grotto: Queen Christine of Sweden, who died in 1689 after abdicating and converting to Catholicism; and Queen Charlotte of Cyprus, who died in 1487 after taking refuge in Rome under papal protection following her ouster.
Just beyond is the "Confession," the intimate space decorated with lanterns and bright green and red marble that sits over the supposed site of Peter's tomb.
The Vatican closed the grottoes in a bid to clear the city of the 3 million pilgrims who had come to pay their last respects to John Paul. The public can get to the grottoes through a stairwell in the basilica.
The cardinals, who have been holding a series of meetings this week to prepare for their conclave April 18, got a chance to view the grotto Tuesday for the first time since the burial. Previously, only high-ranking prelates and members of the papal household had been given access.
Outside in St. Peter's Square, special edition Vatican stamps went on sale Tuesday. The "vacant see" stamps mark the period between John Paul's death and the election of his successor, and they were being snapped up quickly by collectors.
"The more the pope is worth, the more the stamps are worth," said Giovanna Turitto, a 72-year-old retiree waiting to buy them.
[url]http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living/111339188214140.xml[/url]
What Catholics believe
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 04/27/2005 - 17:47In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi everyone,
Well, there has been a fair bit of criticism of our late pope on this site. That’s OK, express your views, why not ? Indeed, I must say they have all been very politely put, but then, that is one of the many attractive features of this lovely site. Only elegant people on this site (myself excluded of course).
Having said that, I hope no-one will be too upset if I offer a few lira’s worth of comment ? “The right to respond” and all that.
The last pope, the one before him and his predecessors did not hold “opinions on sexual ethics” nor “deeply flawed views” etc. What each pope does is to explain, clarify or define (when necessary) the constant teaching of the Catholic Church. It is not just expressing his own views, he acts with the bishops too. Catholic bishops are the successors of the Apostles, in an unbroken chain.
So, if anyone expects the present pope or any of his successors to change doctrine (that is to say faith or morals), don’t hold your breath. The teaching of the Catholic Church is immutable, it is not subject to caprice, or to fashion, nor to political correctness.
So those people who were hoping for changes in Catholic teaching about abortion, contraception, divorce, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, destruction of live embryos – (that they are a grave moral disorder) - just to mention a few of the topics I have seen mentioned (on other sites, but it’s the truth anyway, we all know it) were not informed about the Catholic Church. Tough and maybe unpalatable, but it happens to be the truth.
The Catholic Church is not a democracy, it is a hierarchy and has been for 2000 years, or so. It was instituted by Christ Himself. It is a voluntary organisation, whose members join and remain in it because they agree with it.
“The Pope often frustrated people” yes, quite true, but they were not Catholics, because Catholics accept the unchanging teaching of the Catholic Church. If you don’t, well, looks like you are not a Catholic. It’s not a cafeteria, where you can select which beliefs you like and omit those you don’t like.
Rather hard sometimes, the facts, I make no apology, but offer this in clarification.
By the way, it is not easy being a Catholic (so I am told!!!)
Thanks for reading this uncomfortable (perhaps) post.
ernie
What has been particularly encouraging has been the amount of tributes coming in from all political viewpoints and faiths. It demonstrates that even if the Pope often frustrated people with some of his opinions on sexual ethics his viewpoints of human rights found resonance across.
Sano, as you may have noticed the frontpage of [url="http://www.italymag.co.uk"]http://www.italymag.co.uk[/url] pays its own small tribute to the passing of this man that for all Italians aged 40 and under is the only Pope they really remember.