415 Let's start at the very beginning...........

hi david,

the following really worked for me -

1. lots of visits to Italy - not always easy of course but two weeks in the country is worth more than any course (for me at least)

2. italian news and newspapers - at the beginning its not always easy because you won't get much but bit by bit things improve.

3. talk as much as you can. This is something I am terrible at because I hate making mistakes but it really really helps

4. post any questions you have here - there are lots of people willing to try their italian!

Hi David

I have just completed a 5 week course in itallian - still very much a beginner but it has assured me that I can learn the language. Like many people I have tried tapes/CD's, books, websites and even considered an immersion course.

I will now continue with my lessons but on a 1:1 basis - which should help to speed things up.

Good luck!

I used and enjoyed the Michel Thomas Italian Course on CD. His teaching techniques seem to get languages to stick in the mind. I previously used his course for German and now speak the language proficiently. My Italian isn't as good, but it's getting there with practice.

There is also an excellent language course available on-line from the BBC:

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/lj/[/url]

and Italy magazine has its own web pages for those learning Italian.

[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/italian-lessons/[/url]

I also used a computer course "Smart Start Italian" to force me to memorise lists of verbs and nouns.

[QUOTE=Daval]I am due to attend an adult education class in September to begin learning Italian for the first time.

With the mountains of starter kits, guide books, CD's, DVD's etc.. I am hoping that you may be able to let me know what has worked for you and what you would recommend. Is a 30 week course the best way or can I really do it myself.

I have never considered languages easy and really feel I would benefit form something that offers a range of activities including reading, listening, seeing and yes playing, surely learning a language can be fun and not a chore.

I am sure someone has some great ideas and I look forward to hearing them.

Thanks
David[/QUOTE]

David
I have been learning Italian in evening classes for 2 years now - best way I have found is to get the basics, spend time if you can in Italy, you certainly gain confidence that way and vocabulary. Also see ifyou can find a conversation class - this is brilliant and really makes you think - Borders the book shop normally does one. Another thing that is good is a basic childs book like the 'First THousand Words in Italian' - excellent way to learn.

Good luck - also try the on line lessons with the BBC or Italy mag

Zillah

Ciao David

I've been going to adult education classes for a number of years. What works for me is a good teacher, the interaction among the class members (particularly with humour), and a burning desire to be as good as I can get. A long way to go there, then!!

Obviously you will be following a particular course - one of many that you can pick up in Ottakars, Waterstones, Dillons etc - which will be accompanied by tapes. The downer with tapes is that schools seem to use tape machines that Noah threw out of the ark to make room for the animals; the quality is pretty poor. So, it may be an idea to get hold of the tapes so that you can play them on your own audio units, at home or in the car. One day, they may decide to use CDs, where the quality is so superior.

I hope that your teacher gives you a good grounding in basic grammar, as Italian grammar does differ to ours. Saying that, the important thing is to be able to express yourself; if you can do that, even hesitantly, when in Italy, from my experience out there the people will be patient with you and maybe help you, since they really do appreciate it when you are trying to speak their beloved language.

There are many resources on the web - including language forums that you may find helpful once you feel more comfortable with the language. I certainly have.

But the main thing, David, is Enjoy the Experience.

Ciao

Peter

I have also spent a lot of money on Books, CD's, Tapes, Night School etc but the only thing that is working for me is the Michel Thomas CD's as long as you can get over the sound of his dentures you will enjoy the experience.

Regards

Elena

Glad to see so many recommendations about the Michel Thomas CD's, having just ordered them through Amaxon.

I also thought the idea about trying to read the italian newspapers was excellent and wondered if anyone could recommend a newspaper from the Puglia region that is accessable on the net.

Thanks

Paula Hampson

[url]http://www.ciao-italy.com/categories/newspapers.htm[/url] has got a list of links to Italian newspapers. Hope you find what you're looking for there.

[url]http://www.world-newspapers.com/italy.html[/url]

A good list of Italian newspaper websites :)

Thanks for the links on newspapers. Hopefully I can print a front page off and try to translate (probably take me about a week)

Thanks everybody
Paula Hampson

Just another recommendation for the Michel Thomas tapes/CDs. I've just worked throughthe advanced course and now feel that I can understand the structure of the language. I have very little vocabulary though. That's the next step.

I would just like to thank everybody for the fantastic response to my query.
I have just booke a 15 week programme with my local adult education college due to start in September.
I may give Michael Thomas a go (dentures and all) to provide some prep work for September.
I have also three weeks in Marche this year to get some hands on experience, the first week coming up in three weeks.
Thanks again.
David

I think that all of the audio courses work provided you stick with them. By that I mean listen so many times to each tape that you can do it in your sleep. The other thing to consider is whether you were taught english grammar or not. If you were then you may well find that you need to understand Italian grammar. If not then a course that teaches you grammar may put you off.

I am a devoted advocate of the Accelerated Learning method. It really got me to "hear" Italian so that I could pick up what Italians said to me. My problem with other methods was that I would know the vocabulary, be able to write and say answers to questions but it was all quite stilted. I used to listen to tapes on my way to work each day and I was really astounded at how much facility I gained and how much vocabulary I picked up almost without trying. Here's their website
[url]http://www.accelerated-learning.com/forlang.html[/url]

In conjunction with taking a semester of Italian language, I also used the 8 CD set of Michel Thomas. I went to Italy with a tour group and was so happy when I was able to help out my fellow travelers on a few of their interpretations. I was able to make small conversation with the locals in Italy and they seem to appreciate it so much when people make the effort to learn their language. What I also found helpful was reading elementary level books written in Italian. (Il Cane Piu Brutto Del Mondo by Kate DiCamillo is pretty funny.) I'm far from being an expert in this language but I know that I at least have some knowledge of it.

My English boyfriend has bought himself the 8-hour Michel Thomas course. So far he's only played it twice, but even so some sentence structure has mysteriously stuck into his mind! So I have high hopes - we're off to Italy in 2 weeks, and although my family all speak English, I do wish that he learnt at least SOMETHING. My ex never learnt a word of Italian either.

Is it me??? :(

So I'll keep you folks posted with his progress - watch this space...

Hi David,

We're in the same boat. All the advice you know have is very good, but my two pennies worth is - fridge door magnets - you can buy an Italian Language set at WH SMITHS/WATERSTONES. they have really helped us two with structure and vocabulary.

Best of luck

Ian and Sandra

That sounds like a great idea - I might have a look at lunchtime. My boyfriend learns random words from the most unlikely places anyway!

(He learnt the Italian title for 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' and uses that structure to describe anything big! ...'il mio grosso grasso....' you see, there is hope! :) )

[QUOTE=paperopoli]That sounds like a great idea - I might have a look at lunchtime. My boyfriend learns random words from the most unlikely places anyway![/QUOTE]

To the disgust of my wife, I learned much of Italian from reading fumetti that I buy several of at Pescara airport each time we fly. I find it helps to have a picture alongside the action and the sentences are short. I've a collection of Asterix, Tex, Dylan Dog, Agenzia Alfa and recently the Giallo Mondadori Hippolyte Flynn collection. I've now graduated on to reading that most Italian of authors Terry Pratchetta, in the original Italian :)

Dylan Dog is superb! Did you know that the character of Dylan Dog was based on actor Rupert Everett?

Reading comics is a great way to learn a language, in the same way as reading 'pop' stuff like magazines teaches you the everyday language that you won't find in the textbooks.

Other comics I can recommend are: Lupo Alberto - about a wolf in a farm, a very good satire of Italian society, and Stuermtruppen, a very UN-PC cartoon set in the Second World War.

Enjoy!

I agree that the Michael Thomas programme is very good. I also agree, with a laugh out loud, that the noise of his dentures is a percussive distraction.

Another way I learn language is through parallel translations - principally, of poetry but also some short stories. My wife does gag when I, with poetic ease, tell receptionists/waitresses/grandmothers etc that their faces are forever written upon my soul... and such like.

Moving out of Italy and into Spain - Several years ago I was learning my usual poetic lines - in this case to sing the praises of my wife - and learned to say "Our love is forever" (something like - [I]nuestre amore a pertinece a todo el tiempo[/I] !!!apologies!!!). In a roadside cafe, a tearful drunk pick-up driver was, in broken Spanish, telling us both about how he had lost his wife and children in a car smash. He was miming and talking - trying to get across the idea that we should always talk. There were things he did not tell his wife but wished he had. By dropping my possessive [I]nuestro[/I] I was able to mime and tell him in my broken Spanish that "love is forever". He looked to the sky, with shining eyes, and smiled... and then bear-hugged me. My daughter and her friend, who had waited in the a/c'd car were treated to ice creams and he told my wife what a great man I was.

A wee line of poetry can be a real travel aid.

I have recently finished my first Italin evening class and wondering whether to start again in september but keen as I am to learn I was reduced to a quivering wreck every time I was directly asked a question in front of everyone else. I realise how useful it is to converse with others but for some reason I hardly ever managed to reply correctly if at all. Is it common in evening classes to be asked questions in front of the class? As ever there were the few in the class who knew everything which only added to my misery. I have cassettes, cd's, and at least 30 different books on learning Italian (including Michel Thomas beginner CD) but I love the tip about buying comics I can't wait to go back next month to buy some. I am also bringing back two of my cousins children for a holiday in England with me and my daughter so I am hoping this will also help me.

RE The Michael Thomas language CD's.

On saturday my husband and I were in different towns, unbeknown to each other we both decided to buy the course.

I paid £70.00 in waterstones.
He paid £29.99 in costco!

Mine is now back in the waterstone shop!

Fiona

Thanks Fiona I have never heard of Costco I have just looked them up on the web after reading your post. I will look out for this store when visiting relatives etc.

For anyone wishing to practise spoken Italian in an unconfrontational way, think about joining our Italian Group:
[url]http://www.circoloitaliano.org.uk[/url]
We are an online group for anyone who is learning Italian, at any level, and who would like to practise written Italian by email and also on Sunday evenings we have online sessions in Yahoo Messenger, when you can converse with English and Italians in text or voice (using a headset) and we have a few Italian members who are happy to correct us and practise their English! We also have many resources in our "files" section and recommendations for language courses that members have tried out.
We currently have members from many countries and would welcome more!
Ciao Sandy

You can get the 8 hour Michael Thomas CD course online for about £40 with free delivery

Regards

I've just got mine form Amazon for £35.00 including delivery.

Paula

Sandy, I joined the group. Thanks for that info.

Now, how can I get my hands on those comics?? I don't know enough Italian to order them through an Italian website and there's no English website that I can order from.

Buon Giornata!

[QUOTE=eatone]I have also spent a lot of money on Books, CD's, Tapes, Night School etc but the only thing that is working for me is the Michel Thomas CD's as long as you can get over [b][i]the sound of his dentures[/i][/b] you will enjoy the experience.

Regards

Elena[/QUOTE]

So that's what that noise is! It is rather icky isn't it? (no offense to any who might have dentures...)

Honestly though - and yes, do the comics - but don't forget the poetry - it can really influence experience.

Il Signore e il mio pastore, nulla mi manchera compreso lui.

Tee-hee - see, humour.

Anybody wants an Italian Pen Friend?

I will be glad to reply to your emails. It is an olfashioned idea, but it works!

Paola

[QUOTE=Deb]I have recently finished my first Italin evening class and wondering whether to start again in september but keen as I am to learn I was reduced to a quivering wreck every time I was directly asked a question in front of everyone else. I realise how useful it is to converse with others but for some reason I hardly ever managed to reply correctly if at all. Is it common in evening classes to be asked questions in front of the class? As ever there were the few in the class who knew everything which only added to my misery.[/QUOTE]

Deb

I presume this was your first year at evening class? And that the others you refer to probably had more experience of the language than you. I would hope that the teacher would have seen that you were experiencing problems and would act accordingly, and I would also hope that the others would have remembered the time when they were starting to learn the language and all the mistakes they made then and continue to make. If it was purely a social class then do not be worried about whether or not you appear whatever it is you think you appear. It is very likely just your own perception anyway.

Do not let it put you off. As I said in my earlier message on this thread you do learn more in evening class because there is the interaction - or at least there should be. If there was no real interaction in your class, then it seems not to be the sort of class I would want to be a part of.

If you really feel that you cannot continue with that particular class, look to see if there is one that may be better suited to you. Where I live (Horsham, W Sussex), there are 2 evening class centres, both of which have a range of courses for all the main languages, from beginner through to advanced. One centre concentrates on social classes (perhaps with OCN accreditation), the other provides exam courses (GCSE, AS and A levels). I would hope that you have a similar range of choices, because, Deb, learning Italian is (at least it jolly well ought to be) a whole bundle of fun. Talk to the centre manager - he/she may well have good advice for you.

Buona fortuna

Hi Will reading your post was like reliving my own experience. I had one of each character that you described in my class (the boyfriend who was talking on the phone to his italian girlfriend every evening etc). It was impossible for the teacher to accommodate all the teaching levels needed in the class. I was upset as the class was supposed to be for beginners with no or very little knowledge. I have visited Italy many times and gained 100s of words but needed to put them into sentences. I realise Peter is correct in that i should try again looking for other courses but i have chosen to leave it for this year. I am visiting my cousins in the mountains north of Turin on 22nd July and i am returning with 2 of my cousins children. Milly is 11 and is bilingual George is 5 and struggling with English. As he demands my attention in Italian i am hoping to improve my Italian and at the same time help him to speak some English. There are no English people in the area i am going to so it will be good practice for me. I do not find it as daunting to try and speak to strangers in Italy as i did in the evening class. ( Although i do have to put up with my daughter laughing at me). I have also bought the Michel Thomas introductory CD and it does seem to be working so far. I agree with others you do have to ignore the pauses and slurps. :) :)

This thread is so interesting - I'm signing up for a beginners' course in central london starting this september myself and Will's post is hilarious!

I do think that it is rarely acknowledged that adults learning a new language often find it difficult to deal with that feeling that you are reduced to the level of a small child in your linguistic ability. I know I feel extremely self conscious when I am called upon to speak and that is why I am signing up for this course, because I feel the only way to deal with that self-consciousness is to confront it and force myself into a situation where I HAVE to speak.

Dolly, I wish you well with your Italian class, I felt the same as you which is why i returned for the second term of my course in beginners Italian. My course was based on the BBC programme talk Italian which is beginner level. I taped the tv programmes and bought the CD's, however my problem was that most people on the course were more advanced than the course material and wanted to learn more. It was not just that it made me feel stupid I genuinlely did not know how to answer a lot of questions as along the way i did not have the nerve to ask the teacher to go over anything as the others were all keen and able to move on. My problems only came to light in role play.The first term we had 22 people start the course , the second one only 8 people enrolled so perhaps I was too brave?

Will, you had me snorting audibly in the internet cafe with that post!

I have denture man's CDs and am taking your advice starting today. The class I'm signing up to do is at kensington and chelsea college and I'm now feeling decidedly nervous ...

Hmmm.... well I am sorry to hear of the problems you experienced , Will, which do seem to be somewhat similar to Deb's. However, while accepting that evening classes do not suit everyone, I stand by what I said. It would seem to me that the fault lies in the administration of the courses at the college you attended. The teacher also has a responsibility - although doubtless some do not exercise it - to ensure that everyone in a particular class is of roughly equal level in the language.

However, I do accept that it's 'diffrn't strokes for diffrn't folks'. We all have to find what is the best way of learning and at the end of the day it's the enjoyment we get out of it that is important. You and Deb obviously did not enjoy your experiences, any more than I enjoyed the monotone voice of Michel Thomas when I tried to listen to him (I think I fell asleep!). Such is life!

Peter

This will probably make me very unpopular.

I was never good at languages at school, but I was exposed to french and latin - so I guess some rubbed off.

Two years ago, and wanting to buy a home in Italy, the pressure was on. I attended a local high school evening class for two years (five terms in total) - and it was ok but not enough. I still did'nt speak Italian.

Amongst other things, and to add strings to our bow when in Italy, I completed a CELTA course (Certificate of English Language Teaching for Adults), and it dawned on me - its all about structure, grammar, vocabulary and usage (if you don't use you lose). You have to get a little bit (alot) obsessional about it. So I did - I bought books, tapes, trawled Italian newspaper sites, literally everything I could get my hands on - and studied, and studied.

Start simple, learn phrases that you can use - do not learn vocabulary in isolation, learn it in context - but do learn verb conjugations - make daily plans of what you want to acheive that day/week. Remember you can't eat the elephant all in one bite.

Before all this happened I did not think that I was capable of getting so organised and so obsessed but I did. My Italian is by no means brilliant but I can speak it, and Italians understand me, and I understand them. To me, it seemed a bit like learning to ride a bike, one day you can just do it, its a bit wobbly but you can do it - and you forget what it was like before you could do it. I guess my message is stick with it and you will get there - but get serious.

[B]Top tip: Italian language fridge magnets [/B]

Now the Italian language is the new love of my life and I can do some fancy stuff:

[B]La Via e' unica ed e' come un grande fiume, le sue sorgenti si trovano davanti ad ogni soglia ed ogni sentiero ne e' l'affluente. (J.R.R.Tolkien)[/B]

best wishes to all of you

Tenamoci in contatto

Ian (Ian and Sandra)

I remember my wife instigating one simple but strangely effective help with basic nouns. She went round plastering everyday objects in the house with Post-It notes or stickers on which she'd written the name of the thing in Italian.

I thought she was potty, but blow me it worked - the fact is you do keep coming across them, and most important it gives you an immediate visual association with a word. Don't think I would have learned "ferro da stiro" otherwise - all those boring hours doing the ironing may not have been wasted after all.

Evening classes in the UK can be hit-and-miss, as this thread has already revealed. Ours was plagued by variable attendance - most weeks we'd spend at least half the session catching up on what the absentees missed last time round. The teacher was an only slightly Italian-looking youth from Cheshunt with a flat Home Counties accent.

For self-teaching, we enjoyed the BBC course Italianissimo - not too basic, a good mixture of sources and there's a TV series too - more details here: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/issimo/index.shtml[/url].

Ultimately, though, we scrimped and saved, chucked in our jobs, and just went out to Italy to live for a year in the mid-90s (before children loomed). We enrolled at Florence University for a three-month foreigner's course in language, art and culture. And I couldn't recommend it highly enough. Native Italian language teachers, and a great range of events and tours. I seem to remember every Thursday afternoon passing in a happy haze just watching Italian films.

If the prospect of leaving work behind is a worry - many employers these days are quite open about short career breaks. Three months is not that long. This type of course is run all over Italy - and you never know, it might just change your life.

Once your Italian is up and running, a good source of up-to-date and lively stuff is Acquarello Italiano, a bimonthly audiomagazine in the style of a radio programme. More details here: [url]http://www.champs-elysees.com/products/italian/default.aspx[/url].

Can't finish without pitching in something about the hysterical Michel Thomas courses.

What I found hilarious was his fantastically bossy approach to his poor students. Of any language teacher I've ever heard, dear Michel has the least ability to disguise his impatience at a hapless learner's bloomers. He hectors and he harries, like a multilingual mother hen. I couldn't concentrate, I was laughing so much.

I must say I didn't pick up on the rattling dentures - shame on me. First thing in the morning Michel will be on the CD player and I'll be listening with renewed vigour.

Must stop chattering myself now.

Mike Johnson

Michel Thomas - top bloke! More of him later. It was as a result of coming to Italy on holiday in 2000 (the international year of languages) that I was struck by my lack of a second language. I vowed to myself that upon my return to Cumbria I would enrol in a beginner’s Italian class; which I duly did. But it was too sloooow. So I thought ‘stuff this for a game of soldiers’ and found a personal Italian tutor - quite costly and he had a habit of not addressing the subjects I was most interested in.

Enter - Michel Thomas.

I listened to the CDs in the car on the way to work and back every day. Must admit, I don't remember hearing any dental type sounds though. Anyway, his method was certainly the breakthrough I was looking for.

In 2004 my wife and I sold-up everything, bought a camper and a one-way ticket and on 16th January left England’s shores heading for Norway and via a bit of meandering ultimately a language school in Le Marche. On the first day all students sat a 125 question test which ran the gamut from very easy to completely impossible questions. At the end of the test my wife was nowhere to be seen. I went out to the van (the van was parked outside the school thus saving on accommodation costs!) to find her in floods of tears because she hadn't been able to answer a single question. That was nearly the end of everything. However, there was a supermarket nearby which sold rather excellent chocolate bars for 30 centesimi each and you know how everything always seems better after a cup of tea, well after a cup of tea and a bar of chocolate.....

We would subsequently often find one or the other in the van scoffing chocolate which would invariable provoke the comment "stressful class dear?"

In my wife's case it was ultimately Michel who came to the rescue and now after living in Italy for 14 months she can speak Italian really quite well. She is certainly confident enough to jump on the bus and take our various groups of friends who come out to visit on sight seeing trips here, there and everywhere.

One thing though. At about half way through CD4 my wife said to me "I've listened to this passage again and again and I just can't understand Michel's response here". Ah said I, that's because he makes mistakes now and then.

"What?" "He makes mistakes?"

"Yes, yes, just a couple but nonetheless".

Now, if you're going to ask me what they are I can't for the life of me remember. But if you listen very carefully you'll realise that he sometimes becomes a little confused by the student's replies. However, press on. It all turns out alright in the end. The biggest hurdle after Michel’s course is when you come to try out your new-found skills on your new Italian friends. This is because he (quite reasonably) concentrates on the third person singular conjugations of verbs which are of course in the formal form. And so when you first come to try out sentence constructions you will quite naturally form them in the third person and then your Italian friends will say “hey, why are you being so formal?” To which I used to reply, “look, give me a break, the formal is all I know at the moment”. Oh well, piano piano, si fece Roma….. :)

[QUOTE=eatone]I have also spent a lot of money on Books, CD's, Tapes, Night School etc but the only thing that is working for me is the Michel Thomas CD's as long as you can get over the sound of his dentures you will enjoy the experience.

Regards

Elena[/QUOTE]
Don't know if this helps, but it worked with me. I was surfing the net last year and got into a website which had just recentely been built up (I could see that from the number of visits they had got). This was some sort of distance learning school, offering Italian courses. Considering their prices (£5 for one lesson at that time, but they've gone up a bit now), I gave it a try. It was quite good. What they actually do is give you a teacher, who records an audio cd with a lesson made as if the teacher is in front of you. He actually talks to you (a bit strange at the beginning but then I got used to it). So when you listen to the cd it's as if you were on the phone with him (so to speak, you can stop it any time). The lesson was really good, and the teacher who checked my work was a real Italian (I could tell from her English pronunciation). The good thing is that once you have finished one lesson, you can stop and go back when you want (this is their "motto actually). Indeed, I have ordered 4 lessons only and plan to order another one in September after I've finished moving). I started the General Italian course, but they have many more. Oh, and you can call your teacher on the phone if you want. Hope it helps. [url]www.learnitalian.bravehost.com[/url]