1447 Inheritance Laws and Trusts

Roman law does not have trusts. It may be possible to have a similar effect by forming a company. Could be complicated. Your Italian assets will be subject to Italian law which your will cannot override. If there are several potential claimants on your estate it could be a problem. The law is not that complicated. A good book about living in Italy should contain the information you need. Perhaps someone on this forum can recommend one.

[QUOTE=cardi]Roman law does not have trusts. [/QUOTE]

That's not the advice that we were given in this thread:
[url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=810[/url]

I suppose there may be some different consequences for English nationals and americans but it looks as if the operation of the trust ought to operate in Italy ok.

If you are going to do this, you right to sort it all out prior to buying the property. We didn't do this and would now have to take UK capital gains tax into account if we were going to transfer ownership to a trust (because it's a second home for us) so we're not entirely sure that it's worthwhile in our case.

This is part of our question. We have been told that we can, in fact, purchase our home in Italy under our trust. We have also been told that to do so will cost more because of the additional legal work that has to be done. And that is the source of our concern. Are there advantages to placing our Italian home in our trust?

The other confusion we have is that we have heard (and read) that Italian law always prevails, even if there is an Italian will that makes a different type of distribution. If that is the case, what is the benefit to having a will? In the US, it is essential to have a will or the state's rules apply. If Italian law always applies, why does anyone have a will?

On a similar note, we have heard (and read) that Italian law applies to all residents. We have also heard (and read) that as long as we are US citizens, regardless of our residence, US laws apply.

If someone has an answer to these contradictory concepts, we'd appreciate hearing it. Of course, we'd be consulting a lawyer, familiar with both US and Italian laws governing this area, before we made any final decison. Right now, we'd just like an idea as to what the laws are.

[QUOTE=Diane and Peter]This is part of our question. We have been told that we can, in fact, purchase our home in Italy under our trust. We have also been told that to do so will cost more because of the additional legal work that has to be done. And that is the source of our concern. Are there advantages to placing our Italian home in our trust?

The other confusion we have is that we have heard (and read) that Italian law always prevails, even if there is an Italian will that makes a different type of distribution. If that is the case, what is the benefit to having a will? In the US, it is essential to have a will or the state's rules apply. If Italian law always applies, why does anyone have a will?

On a similar note, we have heard (and read) that Italian law applies to all residents. We have also heard (and read) that as long as we are US citizens, regardless of our residence, US laws apply.

If someone has an answer to these contradictory concepts, we'd appreciate hearing it. Of course, we'd be consulting a lawyer, familiar with both US and Italian laws governing this area, before we made any final decison. Right now, we'd just like an idea as to what the laws are.[/QUOTE]

If you are US citizens, your hineritance is regulated by your national law.
If you are resident abroad, i.e. in Italy, you can choose, with a will, to regulate your hineritance under the law of the Country where you are residing, but if you change your residency, your choice of a foreign law is no more valid.

In other words:
Italian citizens - italian law
foreign citizen - their own law

Articles 46, 47 and 48 Legge n. 218 31.5.1995

My apologies Notaio.
I am a little bit confused with the following statement, maybe I'm a bit thick today.

'If you are resident abroad, i.e. in Italy, you can choose, with a will, to regulate your hineritance under the law of the Country where you are residing, but if you change your residency, your choice of a foreign law is no more valid.'

Does the first part of your statement mean living in Italy but not taking up offical residency, as opposed to taking Italian residency and therefor compling with Italian law.

Stribs

[QUOTE=Stribs]My apologies Notaio.
I am a little bit confused with the following statement, maybe I'm a bit thick today.

'If you are resident abroad, i.e. in Italy, you can choose, with a will, to regulate your hineritance under the law of the Country where you are residing, but if you change your residency, your choice of a foreign law is no more valid.'

Does the first part of your statement mean living in Italy but not taking up offical residency, as opposed to taking Italian residency and therefor compling with Italian law.

Stribs[/QUOTE]

I have to apologize, not you.
It was just an effort to translate, at my best, the italian law, so may be that my translation created a little bit of confusion.

The general rule is that the inheritance (succession) is regulated by the national law of the defunct.
So the succession of a uk citizen is under the english law, even if he/she has some properties in Italy

If he/she is resident (officially) in Italy, he can choose, with a formal will (but it is just a [B]choice[/B], not a duty) to comply with the italian law [B]all[/B] his inheritance.
So:
- no residency no italian law
- no choice no italian law

I am American citizen with property in Italy. My thinking had been that Italian law would dictate inheritance of my property when I die. From your postings it would seem that I was mistaken. Could you provide website of the law (Legge n. 218 31.5.1995) that you cite? Thanks!!

At some point in time I remember reading that - although the law of the country of origin would apply there would be a need to have an english (for that read written in the english language rather than written in italian) will translated at the point that it becomes of importance (ie after someones death) .
This process becomes a trial and expense at a time when it is least welcome - and so the point of having an Italian will is just so that the 'red-tape' is less onerorous at that point.

Goodness, am I making any sense? I know what I am trying to say but am not sure if I am managing to say it.... :confused:

Lesley

[QUOTE=stefanaccio]I am American citizen with property in Italy. My thinking had been that Italian law would dictate inheritance of my property when I die. From your postings it would seem that I was mistaken. Could you provide website of the law (Legge n. 218 31.5.1995) that you cite? Thanks!![/QUOTE]
Here are the articles I cited.
They are in italian, may be some bilingual could make a good translation ?

Art. 29. [B]Rapporti personali tra coniugi[/B].

1. I rapporti personali tra coniugi sono regolati dalla legge nazionale comune.
2. I rapporti personali tra coniugi aventi diverse cittadinanze o più cittadinanze comuni sono regolati dalla legge dello Stato nel quale la vita matrimoniale è prevalentemente localizzata

Art. 30. [B]Rapporti patrimoniali tra coniugi[/B].

1. I rapporti patrimoniali tra coniugi sono regolati dalla legge applicabile ai loro rapporti personali. I coniugi possono tuttavia convenire per iscritto che i loro rapporti patrimoniali sono regolati dalla legge dello Stato di cui almeno uno di essi è cittadino o nel quale almeno uno di essi risiede.

2. L'accordo dei coniugi sul diritto applicabile è valido se è considerato tale dalla legge scelta o da quella del luogo in cui l'accordo è stato stipulato.

3. Il regime dei rapporti patrimoniali fra coniugi regolato da una legge straniera è opponibile ai terzi solo se questi ne abbiano avuto conoscenza o lo abbiano ignorato per loro colpa. Relativamente ai diritti reali su beni immobili, l'opponibilità è limitata ai casi in cui siano state rispettate le forme di pubblicità prescritte dalla legge dello Stato in cui i beni si trovano

Art. 46. [B]Successione per causa di morte[/B].
1. La successione per causa di morte è regolata dalla legge nazionale del soggetto della cui eredità si tratta, al momento della morte.

2. Il soggetto della cui eredità si tratta può sottoporre, con dichiarazione espressa in forma testamentaria, l'intera successione alla legge dello Stato in cui risiede. La scelta non ha effetto se al momento della morte il dichiarante non risiedeva più in tale Stato.

Art. 48. [B]Forma del testamento[/B].

1. Il testamento è valido, quanto alla forma, se è considerato tale dalla legge dello Stato nel quale il testatore ha disposto, ovvero dalla legge dello Stato di cui il testatore, al momento del testamento o della morte, era cittadino o dalla legge dello Stato in cui aveva il domicilio o la residenza

Thank you very, very much!! Don't mean to be a scocciatura but is full text of this law/regulation available via internet?
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/film/casale[/url]

[QUOTE=stefanaccio]Thank you very, very much!! Don't mean to be a scocciatura but is full text of this law/regulation available via internet?
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/film/casale[/url][/QUOTE]

try this:
[url]www.iusreporter.it/Testi/legge218-1995.htm[/url]

Dear Notaio,

Thanks so much for such specific information. We're very glad you are on this forum!