1653 help!

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and wondered if you might give me a bit of advice.
My wife and I have recently signed a proposto d'aquisto for a beautiful house in villafranca, lunigiana. We had done months of research and found the perfect area, and a few good and helpful agents. We had limited time (5 days) to view houses, and since we fell in love with a house we wanted to secure it that same weekend, so we drew up a proposto d'aquisto with a few clauses. The most important of which was to have the floor (a more recent addition to the house) checked to insure it had been built, and still met building regulations. However we did not stipulate that the rest of the structure had to match these requirements. There are people living to one side, and above the house. the structure is over 200 years old and has withstood 2 major, and uncountable minor earthquakes. It has thick stone walls, and there are no beams supporting our roof (although I imagine there are above the people above us). There were some (what look to me like superficial) cracks in the plaster, but the windows showed no signs of movement. We were with a friend who is a painter/decorator who believed the house was structurally sound, and we both feel confident that it is too.
I know that Italians don't generally do building surveys, but the English do. Would you think us mad to sign the compremesso and pay the deposit without getting a full structural survey, or in view of the above information would you think it unnessacery? Will it make any difference, or are we legally bound to buy the property now anyway since we signed the proposta?
In any case, might the floor survey be sufficient to determine if the whole thing is ok?
Many thanks for your help, Bernard.

Category

Property Sales/Rental Advice

bernard...i think you took all reasonable precautions...and i would say a 200 year old house will most probably outlast us all here... however your own piece of mind is what counts and in reallity this i would think is a choice you will have to make..... but i would not be trying to find a surveyor if it was me... but thats me...

[QUOTE=adriatica]bernard...i think you took all reasonable precautions...and i would say a 200 year old house will most probably outlast us all here... however your own piece of mind is what counts and in reallity this i would think is a choice you will have to make..... but i would not be trying to find a surveyor if it was me... but thats me...[/QUOTE]
in agreement with this too

And quite right too!

Bernard

When buying older properties it is always best to keep things in perspective. You should avoid getting carried away by the dream.

Things to watch out for include:

The condition of the roof and existing tiles
Condition of the timbers
Any signs of damp, cracks, leaning and bulging of walls

Most buyers in my experience tend not to look at the wider picture. A professionally produced survey report goes beyond structure. It describes all major defects and faults and helps you not only prioritise what work needs to be done, it can, if used wisely, even help you reduce the asking price.

As far as the proposta d’acquisto is concerned, this offer is revocable (unless it is a proposta d’acquisto irrevocabile) at any time until the vendor accepts it, after which the principle of reciprocity kicks in and both parties enter into a legally binding contract.

The deposit you pay is called the deposito causionale (not caparra) and is refundable (although it is always wise to stipulate this in the offer). After the vendor accepts, your offer and deposit (now known as the caparra) is subject to the provisions as per articles 1351, 1385 and 1386 of the Civil Code. This makes it a little more difficult to withdraw in the event of problems, unless of course you have stipulated specific conditions that enable you to do so without incurring any penalty should any of the conditions not be fulfilled.

My suggestion to you is since you have been prudent thus far; why not just close the loop and get an independent and professional opinion anyway. You are after all, going to be parting with a few hundred thousand Euro. You owe it to yourself to get it right!

Thanks everyone...

"Things to watch out for include:
The condition of the roof and existing tiles
Condition of the timbers
Any signs of damp, cracks, leaning and bulging of walls"

The roof is the responsibility of the people above us. There are no timbers. There were certainly no signs of damp. No obvious leaning or buldging, but as i stated there were some cracks.

"Most buyers in my experience tend not to look at the wider picture. A professionally produced survey report goes beyond structure. It describes all major defects and faults and helps you not only prioritise what work needs to be done, it can, if used wisely, even help you reduce the asking price.

The vendor has already accepted our offer, so the asking price is no longer negotiable.

"You are after all, going to be parting with a few hundred thousand Euro. You owe it to yourself to get it right!"

We will only be spending 60.000 for the property...

Any further thoughts with this information?

Hi there

It seems as if we are in a very similar situation....we are signing for our house in Abruzzo at 55,000 euros in Dec. We did get a survey for 250 euros but it was not brilliant just one page and the translation was awful.Make sure you will get a better one..ask your agents if you can look at a copy of a survey 'their' geometra does to see.

I think its really important that you can be reasonably sure before the compromesso you won't have to demolish your whole house and start again as has been suggested to me on this forum! I do worry about the specail earthquake regs in Italy and all these silly rules about what diy you can do without permits.At the moment I am just crossing everything but watch this space!

Bernard…

As John previously stated, only you can weigh up the risks and make that decision.

You state that the roof is the responsibility of the people above you. I would suggest you get everything in writing so that you and your neighbours are quite clear about responsibilities and maintenance costs etc.

Now that the vendor has already accepted the offer, you have entered into a legally binding contract and unless you have lawful reason to withdraw, you may find it difficult to seek remedial action in the event of any problem arising after contracts have been signed.

60.000 euro is still around 40,000 pounds and a lot of money. I know the Lunigiana area very well and it can be bleak, damp and extremely cold during the winter months. Yes, you may find the existing patina, a few cracks or the rustic appearance interesting and romantic, but remember, these things can hide some pretty nasty defects.

Bernard ,

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