1750 piemonte protests

I shouldn’t worry too much about it at present.

The ‘Regione Piemonte’ on line website gives details of some works.

[url]http://www.regione.piemonte.it/lingue/english/pagine/infrastrutture/infrast.htm[/url]

The works are
· a high speed line from Milan to Turin – at present underway [for the Winter Olympics?]
· a proposal for a high speed connection via a 54km long tunnel to Lyons in France
· extension of the high speed line through to Eastern Europe via Venice and Trieste.

Most works [apart from the Lyons tunnel route] will most likely be on or alongside existing railway lines.

According to the website

[url]http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:hZrFwxWOf0wJ:www.regione.piemonte.it/pressway/dwd/piedmont2_05/01.pdf+torino+-+lyons+rail&hl=en[/url]

“The building of the Turin-Lyons high-speed rail link is proceeding by leaps and bounds. The Turin-Novara section will be inaugurated in 2005, the contract to build the continuation of the line to Milan has been awarded and work has already begun.

Drilling is well under way in the Alps to build the great tunnel that will connect Turin to Lyons. Next, the Turin-Milan motorway is being completely rebuilt at incredible speed, to enlarge and modernise one of the oldest road links in Italy”

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So unless you live between Lyons and Turin, I shouldn’t worry. And if you do – I still wouldn’t.

Having spent several years working on the High Speed Rail Link project from London to the Channel Tunnel [the CTRL project], I’m aware of the initial high level of opposition to such projects, but I’m sure that in the longer term [as with the CTRL], most, if not all, will come to appreciate the benefits of such schemes

living in kent when the channel rail link was being proposed,i remember the effect the uncertainty of the route had on property sales in areas which could have been affected.we decided not to proceed with the purchase of a house for this reason and the house (which was lovely and fairly priced )did not sell for over a year.once the route was certain things improved as people could make an informed decision.

in all honesty when you live here these sort of things are part of normal life...you see them on telly...you read the newspapers...sometimes you might even talk to your neighbours...its all part of life here ... much as if you live in england and the next day you go to work and talk about what you have seen or read.....

now for some reason if i post things which i think of as general interest here and pertinent to house buyers from the uk .........or anywhere else in the world.... out of being lucky enough to live here and actually watching the news programs...equivalents of watch dogs....or panoramas if that program still exists... i post on it... not out of any desire to perjure a region ...just that some0one that doesnt live here and might not consider things like it might well be interested in knowing......suddenly everyone...well not quite all... become defensive.....

i find the posting in reply to mine something other than helpful.... of course you would be worried if the nice village house you had bought suddenly had a million lorries a day(exageration) driving past to empty the contents of the proposed tunnel.... why have several thousand residents of that region blocked main railway lines and such to protest... i guess they might be worried

so nothing against buying in piemonte.... just thought people buying there might like to know whats going on.....and ninety nine times out of a hundred ...it will not affect them.....but maybe it might just be useful to know

surprisingly enough i expected more replies slating me for being anti north...usually its the southerners that have a go..... and take the proverbial... hopefully there will be some intelligent enough to realise that useful information is useful.... and take it as that... neither anti east west or south...even north.... but dont expect me to stop mentioning things that happen here..... the protests were the main stories in virtually all news progs and papers on the day....here in italy...

and if you shouldnt worry too much about it at present ...maybe you should in the future if the tunnel happens to run under your house ...

... to get off that subject... and to prove i am not anti anything apart from heads in sand.... we have new roads being built here in teramo...the tunneling has had to stop....they were bringing down half the buildings in the historic centre.... i have seen nice houses hereabouts with flyover sections of motorways... not the busiest in italy for sure...but still motorways...built within two or three metres of bedroom windows... i guess these people thought there might be not too much to worry about at present... or maybe they are just car spotters

Thank you John for posting information on different things going on that you read about. I think information is good, and we all can assess for ourselves whether or not it is useful for our needs. We're actually interested in finding out more about Teramo as the location we're looking at buying in is along the Ascoli/Teramo border. Your posts have been very informative, and we look forward to hearing more about what is going on around you.

read this topic, and thought ok they are building another tunnel, so what,
no need to worry as the replies have been informative as well.

then john you reply and give the full picture,it didn't cross my mind how this
would affect the locals, lorries, possible subsidence ect.

but then i am a southerner. lol.

[QUOTE=adriatica]i find the posting in reply to mine something other than helpful.... [/QUOTE]

Personally, I thought Alan's post was very helpful, and informative. As was yours. :confused:

Derek

derek... post was informative...but it was the bit about nothing to worry about at present that made me take the bait....as you might realise if i am nothing else i am always ready to argue...and no offence meant to allen as in general i have found his posts even more informative than mine.... ( better explain...joke)

in fact its more part of my paranoid persona ....because i have often posted about the south and been to hell and back..... thats if most had their wishes that i find myself a bit over sensitive to what i regard as peoples desire to bury the problems rather than face them and know a bit more about the process beyond the admittedley important facts of declared values and notaries versus lawyers....which in essence have been discussed and re discussed in great detail here.... and no i am not saying do not post more info on this.... i have used this forum to reccomend the law firm mentioned in the uk....

i happen to feel that there are also problems beyond the immediate worries of house purchase and repair.... long term considerations of choice....schools, pollution,crime and railway lines... to name a few.....work...restaurants... and just feeling happy after one or two years with your choice....

for many this is a massive choice to make.... italy is like no other place in europe most probably...there are things we all love.... from holidays and short stays...there are things...because we either cannot speak or read the language we have no idea of.... or just because local news here in italy does not make international news ..... but its important and relevant if we are choosing where we sink our life savings...or plan to bring our children up....

much as you read here about the diference in the law systems.... apart from buying the house it will have very little affect on your life here.... i try to talk or post about what worries italians in their normal life...or how they manage to cope with the cost of living.... the complications..... in reallity i have little interest in those planning holiday homes here...more those that plan to live here.... and the complications of that choice and where you make it....

so flippant responses to concerns over high speed rail links.... belittle in a sense all those people in the val d susa out in the rain and wind that are fighting to protect their heritage, their way of life and their homes from an intrusion they see as an imposition...

funny enough ... navan rings a big bell with me... and some of my family.... at the high school there... showing my age here... memories include... being beaten by the christian brothers in charge of the school at the time...bit of a shock after moving there from a so called normal english school and spending one term after the troubles re ignited in the north constantly worrying about being hung.... seemingly a favorite pastime ...regarded by me as quite hazadrous,.... of my irish class mates... maybe a bit of fore knowledge might well have helped my parents to have made a better choice of moves at the time

[QUOTE=adriatica]

....they were bringing down half the buildings in the historic centre.... i have seen nice houses hereabouts with flyover sections of motorways... not the busiest in italy for sure...but still motorways...built within two or three metres of bedroom windows... i guess these people thought there might be not too much to worry about at present... or maybe they are just car spotters[/QUOTE]

John, not just in Italy me thinks. I remember the first time I went on the Eurostar (it was from Waterloo Station in London to Brussels International) being amazed at how close they had built this brand new high-speed line to peoples' homes. I had always thought previously that in France and elsewhere that these projects got off the ground more quickly than in the UK because they were across green fields where green fields are in abundance.
But having ridden close enough to the sitting rooms of Belgium folk to be able to recognise their TV programmes I am wondering what the enviromental report on that particular line could have said.

Finally found a report on the incident, from Reuters

----------------------

"Train protesters block French-Italian railway
01 Nov 2005 17:41:15 GMT

Source: Reuters

ROME, Nov 1 (Reuters) - Hundreds of demonstrators blocked a railway connecting the northern Italian town of Turin to the French city of Lyon for a second day on Tuesday in protest against a planned high-speed rail link.

The protests, focused on the environmental impact of the new service, snarled trains throughout the Alpine region, a spokesman for rail company Rete Ferroviaria Italiana said.

Demonstrators also barricaded a main road near Turin, which will host the 2006 Winter Olympics.

More than 10 people were hurt on Monday when protesters fought with police trying to drag them away from the blockade.

LTF, a consortium of French and Italian rail operators, had planned to conduct geological surveys for the project this week. "

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Not surprised to see it wasn't 'thousands' as John stated, but 'hundreds'.

[flying off on a tangent - can you buy 'hundreds and thousands' in Italy?]

One purpose of the rail link is to reduce the number of lorries crossing the region. The projected figures for 2020 are 3 million lorry journeys a year in the area, and it is projected that of these, 1 million lorry journeys will transfer to rail.

By 2030 they are expecting that the tunnel route will carry 40 million tonnes of freight a year - the current route capacity is 10 million tonnes

Apparently 90% of the route is in tunnel

Assuming that the tunnel is built [one can never be sure - especially in Italy], I think the long term gains will offset what will [for some] be a painful construction period.

Hope this helps.

By the way - I always wondered when John would start having a go at 'up North' - we felt quite left out!

[QUOTE=adriatica]there have been huge protests about the new proposal for a high speed rail link which in parts will go through the mountains and on into france....when buying in that area might well be worth checking out the route in detail.... often not something people think of doing here are searches on proposed new developments..... but in this case as it will be running through several of the more beautiful mountainous areas it would be better to know it will not be near you...[/QUOTE]

Surely such information as given by Adriaitca is essential to anyone considering buying a house and so investing a large sum of money in Piemonte. It may well prove to be 'nothing to worry about', but at least having such knowledge allows them to investigate further, ask the agents etc more probing questions and to finally make an informed decision as to whether to proceed. After all who wants to buy a house anywhere and then be faced with years of heavy construction traffic passing by on a daily basis, or having a high speed rail link pass within a few yards of your front door? To say nothing of all the other environmental changes and changes to the character of the area that could ensue? Some may see it as an advantage as it will provide improved transport links to the area but presumably even they would not want it on their doorstep.
I doubt such issues are ever presented in the UK/foreign media so prospective buyers to the region are unlikely to hear of such possible future developments other than through the likes of Adriatica reporting such things on forums such as this, I am sure they will be grateful to him for taking the time to bother.
Forewarned is forearmed!
Anne2

If anyone is interested on the route of the tunnel[s] -

so they can see if it affects them - or their future plans.

go to

[url]http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.ltf-sas.com/pages/articles.php%3Fart_id%3D299&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlyon%2Bturin%2Bbudapest%2B%2Brail%26num%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D[/url]