1881 Rats - I'll have to do some work now!

I agree it really made me laugh but can't someone post on any other regions?What about Tuscany,Le Marche,Lazio give us a break from Puglia and Abruzzo!

Can't anyone else see the makings of of a Chanel 4 programme here? Any producers on the forum? It would be great coz we could all see the protagonists in the flesh so to speak!

Must get back to work

Becky

Yes some regional variation would be interesting.... particularly regarding the charming black ladies....

[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]Some party pooper's closed down the best thread in ages. What are we to do for entertainment now?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the 'pooper' had much choice - the last couple of entries seem, in my opinion, to have stepped well over the mark [which had already been severely tested by some of the previous entries]

It saddens me when 'banter' and 'ego tweaking' degenerate into what had become a vitriolic interchange that brought no credit to the Forum or the 'Threadees' involved.

Hopefully people can retain their sense of humour in future, accepting that others may hold opposing views, and manage, as my 26 year old daughter never ceases to tell me, to "keep taking the Chill Pills!"

I love it when people on high horses take tilts at others similarly mounted - but only if a sense of humour and decorum is maintained.

So ladies and gents - pontificate and argue as much as you like - but don't get personal or petulant - otherwise someone will have to keep on pooping!

As I just about to attend my 5th Italian lesson tonight I havn't got a clue what the last to posts on the scam thread was on about :confused: . Can somebody send me a pm to enlighten me. I obviously dont want it translated on the forum as I can imagine it is very insulting and I'll be here all day with my dictionary. :mad:

I'm with Wishful Thinker, I was enjoying the aforementioned thread and whilst I agree posts over the top should not be allowed, is there no way the moderators could censor/delete items and issue warnings/yellow cards to the offenders?

I must admit that in my opinion putting up posts only discussing the downside of the next region is not a useful exercise, since obviously people with business interests will react strongly.

I am slightly surprised that the lovely Puglia folk did not respond with a strong rebuttal supporting their region. Hows about some pictures etc..

I must admit to being swayed by recommends of le Marche to make our first visit, so there is a possibility of bad posts dissuading people. Personally I wouldn't be too happy if a poster seemed to be telling everyone that the region I was just buying in was without wc's. ;)

Can't understand inter-region rivallry

Dave (Cornwall - near England) :D

Also need to know:

Did Clarke survive the "hit"?

Did John & Aliena get it together?

What happened to the toilets in Abruzzo?

Who owns the Vic?

Dave (not suffering from SAD) :D

It seemed to me, and a few others I guess that the nub of the argument was a bit bazaar - that people who are not native to these Italian regions, but have taken up residence/their cause should feel so defensive of the place and offensive about the other places.

Italy is diverse culturally and geographically. Some people might prefer rolling hills, some mountains, some see views, some lakes, some wild terrain etc etc, and some go for seafood and others stew.

So go for which area has the combi of things that appeal to you. That decision is going to be based entirely on your own priorities - it stands to reason that one area cannot be "better" than another. If you don't like water, the beauties of Venice will never appeal; ditto if you like rolling lush fields Calabria won't be for you either.

But its all PERSONAL opinion.

OK?

[QUOTE=YNot]Also need to know:

Did Clarke survive the "hit"?

Did John & Aliena get it together?

What happened to the toilets in Abruzzo?

Who owns the Vic?

Dave (not suffering from SAD) :D[/QUOTE]

I too am worried about the ownership of the Vic, I mean, how can the poison dwarf simply sell the thing, where would Chrissie's share go to, and the last thing we need in the square are the Mitchels, I wonder whether they and Sharon could be persuaded to move to Puglia ????

Sharon and the black ladies, the Mitchels and the Albanians......

.....turf war! (Q: is there any turf in Puglia?)

......I gotta stop now.....

[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]It seemed to me, and a few others I guess that the nub of the argument was a bit bazaar - that people who are not native to these Italian regions, but have taken up residence/their cause should feel so defensive of the place and offensive about the other places.

Italy is diverse culturally and geographically. Some people might prefer rolling hills, some mountains, some see views, some lakes, some wild terrain etc etc, and some go for seafood and others stew.

So go for which area has the combi of things that appeal to you. That decision is going to be based entirely on your own priorities - it stands to reason that one area cannot be "better" than another. If you don't like water, the beauties of Venice will never appeal; ditto if you like rolling lush fields Calabria won't be for you either.

But its all PERSONAL opinion.

OK?[/QUOTE]

i think that this post is a very fair viewpoint.as for puglia,itself as a region
would really like some locals to tell me about this region, the history, the arts,
the scenary.
i will start. the gargano area is exceptional,but thats in the north whatabout
the rest..

giovanni

Why do you state that the "gargano area is exceptional"

[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]Some party pooper's closed down the best thread in ages. What are we to do for entertainment now?[/QUOTE]

Been out in 'Gib' all day, rushed back really looking forward to logging on and catching up on the next bit of the saga ... and it's gone :(

What am I gonna do without my daily fix of 'gut rentching' humour and sarcasm. And how will I know what happens?

Will Clarke fly some poor unsuspecting 'newbies' out to toxic Puglia to wine and dine them?

Will Aliena turn up on a street corner with her brazier going full pelt to 'scupper' the good impression Clarke is trying to create?

Where are you Aliena and Clarke. I miss you.

Come on John in Abruzzo, post something really scathing. That'll bring 'em back :eek:

We too think Gargano exceptional. It has the most wonderful coastline and a very special kind of light. The interior is the dense ancient woodland of the Forest Umbra. We love many places in Italy, but this is our favourite for a relaxing holiday - we used to drive for 36 hours with very young children - the first one went at 3 months to spend 2 weeks on the beach. We never found a better place for the children. As they got older they objected to that drive and we had to go to France or Spain but they could never compare.

We went back two years ago for our 25th wedding anniversay and still loved it as much as ever. It is far more commercialised than it used to be but still a wonderful coastline. We have now purchased a property further south in Puglia near to Ostuni but hope that when we have more time we can use it as a base to revisit Gargano.

The biggest problem with Gargano, and one of the reasons we did not purchase there is that access to the sea is difficult. The best areas are private belonging to campsites and hotels. There are long stretches of wide sand with the usual umbrellas etc, but we don't like the organised beaches, preferrng the rocky coves - we used a campsite with stunning scenery and its own private beaches.

Another reason we loved it was we rarely saw anyone else English! I think that still it is mainly visited by Italians and Germans. As with most of Puglia little English is spoken.

[QUOTE=Flyingpigs]We too think Gargano exceptional. It has the most wonderful coastline and a very special kind of light. The interior is the dense ancient woodland of the Forest Umbra. We love many places in Italy, but this is our favourite for a relaxing holiday - we used to drive for 36 hours with very young children - the first one went at 3 months to spend 2 weeks on the beach. We never found a better place for the children. As they got older they objected to that drive and we had to go to France or Spain but they could never compare.

We went back two years ago for our 25th wedding anniversay and still loved it as much as ever. It is far more commercialised than it used to be but still a wonderful coastline. We have now purchased a property further south in Puglia near to Ostuni but hope that when we have more time we can use it as a base to revisit Gargano.

The biggest problem with Gargano, and one of the reasons we did not purchase there is that access to the sea is difficult. The best areas are private belonging to campsites and hotels. There are long stretches of wide sand with the usual umbrellas etc, but we don't like the organised beaches, preferrng the rocky coves - we used a campsite with stunning scenery and its own private beaches.

Another reason we loved it was we rarely saw anyone else English! I think that still it is mainly visited by Italians and Germans. As with most of Puglia little English is spoken.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree. It has been commercialised.. Myself I have a home in Peschici. I don't know if you have been there. I try to visit every summer. 4 out of the last 5 years. The flights from Canada are expensive. If we had Ryan Air prices I'd be down every month.

They are trying to resolve the beach issue. The real problem is parking. And the problem is all over resort towns not only on the beaches. They charge for it at every opportunity. I can't even get parking in front of my own house. I keep arguing with the locals telling them that it is not good for tourism. But they are hard headed.

I'm really angry
as a pugliese (born in Bari and lived there since 1990) I had written a long post on the that silly controversy, with a lot of informations about mafia albanese, crime in Puglia, different traditions, but when I've tried to send the post I've found the thread closed and I've lost my message :mad:

Anyway, the controversy was silly, but really funny and unbeliavable for a pugliese like me: an assembly of englishmen/women (but american, canadian and finns too) fighting to assert the superiority of Puglia :eek:

I just think I'll call a friend of mine who's a journalist down there in Puglia and I'll suggest her to write an article about all this :D

[QUOTE=notaio]I'm really angry
as a pugliese (born in Bari and lived there since 1990) I had written a long post on the that silly controversy, with a lot of informations about mafia albanese, crime in Puglia, different traditions, but when I've tried to send the post I've found the thread closed and I've lost my message :mad:

Anyway, the controversy was silly, but really funny and unbeliavable for a pugliese like me: an assembly of englishmen/women (but american, canadian and finns too) fighting to assert the superiority of Puglia :eek:

I just think I'll call a friend of mine who's a journalist down there in Puglia and I'll suggest her to write an article about all this :D[/QUOTE]

I think you should call your friend Notaio, an article on Puglia is in fact well overdue. Women in black? Vegetables that glow in the dark? Clarkie that's probably having 'tiffin' with Lord McAlpine ;)

I also think you should be free to post your thoughts on this forum freely. The 'scam' thread was extremely funny and full of excitement. In fact it had a lot of people 'watching', which must have been good for the forum generally.

I hate to say it, but generally it's been bloomin' boring tonight?

Well, that's my opinion. We can always talk about IKEA again.

[QUOTE=notaio]I'm really angry
as a pugliese (born in Bari and lived there since 1990) I had written a long post on the that silly controversy, with a lot of informations about mafia albanese, crime in Puglia, different traditions, but when I've tried to send the post I've found the thread closed and I've lost my message [img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Anyway, the controversy was silly, but really funny and unbeliavable for a pugliese like me: an assembly of englishmen/women (but american, canadian and finns too) fighting to assert the superiority of Puglia

I just think I'll call a friend of mine who's a journalist down there in Puglia and I'll suggest her to write an article about all this [/QUOTE]

Notaio, Please write your post again, you can't leave us all hanging! and yes get your friend to write an article, that would be good too! [img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Georges]and the last thing we need in the square are the Mitchels, I wonder whether they and Sharon could be persuaded to move to Puglia ????[/QUOTE]
George, behave! [img]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

We cab get the Puglia party pictures in the article. I know Lynn will be delighted....

I've sent a mail message to a newspaper in Puglia and a link to the thread and asked for its comments, we'll have to wait and see ;)

As I've already said, the controversy Puglia vs Abruzzo was really silly.
Between the two regions there has NEVER been any kind of rivalry or distaste, so it was really incredible to read all that blames and defences on the thread.
Puglia and Abruzzo are quite similar, they are both southern region with common historical, economic and cultural roots: in the past the shepherds from Abruzzo used to go down periodically in the pastures of Puglia with their flocks, it was called “transumanza”.
About Puglia, you have to consider that is a region with many faces: Foggia is different from Lecce a so is Bari from Taranto etc.
Foggia area isn’t an interesting place: flat, hot in summer, without peculiar historic monuments, but with jewels like Gargano or Tremiti Islands

Bari is a city, about 350.000 people, but if we add the hinterland it reaches about 800.000.
It has all the typical urban problems: drug, bad outskirts, traffic etc, but has also all the pleasant things you can find in a city: cultural life, theatres, restaurants, night life, bars, shops (a lot of) university and so on.
The district has many big towns (35/50.000 people) some of them really beautiful: Trani, Giovinazzo, Polignano and the countryside is shaped by olive trees and vineyards.

Brindisi has nothing special, the port, big petrochemical plants, but the inner zone of the district is really nice: Valle d’Itria, Ostuni, Otranto, trulli….

Taranto is an industrial town, with one of the biggest steel plant in Europe and all the related problems: air pollution, job troubles because of steel crisis, but the northern and southern coasts are amazing, with a sea at a caribbean level even if with ugly new buildings along the seafront. And do not forget Martina Franca, which is very picturesque.

Lecce is essentially a rural town, with a sort of noble atmosphere and a lot of ancient palaces (baroque style), beautiful countryside with olive trees all around, trulli, old manor farms, wonderful coasts and seas (Adriatic and Jonio)

In Puglia dialects are different, in Foggia they are influenced by Campania, while Lecce has a dialect derived from greek language
This is evident with the greek names of some towns: Galatina, Gallipoli, Galatone, Leuca and greek are also some of the most common surnames in the Lecce area

About crime.
There isn’t a mafia in Puglia, if with mafia we mean “the criminal control of the economic and social life of a specific area”.
There has been in the eighties something similar to sicilian mafia (in a very narrow gauge) in the southern part of Puglia, but it has been overcome by police and judges.
It doesn’t mean that there isn’t crime in Puglia.
Bari has all the pickpockets, robberies, drugs as any other city (less than Naples and more than Trento), but things are getting better: when I was young Bari Vecchia (the old town) was “off limits”, now among its old stone houses recently restored, you can find a lot of restaurants, pubs, bars, shops, all very “cool”

Mafia albanese.
There isn’t it.
There are some albanesi criminals, but they are not “mafia”.
It is a fact that in the past years Puglia has been the front door of illegal immigration from Albania: after all, with a 4 hours trip, people can cross the sea and reach the lucky part of the world where we all live.
It is a fact too, that along with immigrants, came in also drugs, smuggle, weapons (during the civil war in Jugoslavia).
Well, now the illegal immigration from Albania is quite over (italian police has naval bases there) and the majority of these immigrants have now a regular job and do not live in Puglia, but in the northern regions of Italy or other european countries.
Moreover, remember that even if clandestine, they weren’t all criminals, but essentially poor people, just like the italian or irish or british people that in the past centuries went to America or Australia.

[QUOTE=Frank]giovanni

Why do you state that the "gargano area is exceptional"[/QUOTE]

might have been slightly misleading, its a national park,and as such means it
has alot to offer.
being as i only know the northern area of puglia, the question could have
taken in two ways.
1. only this area is worthy of mention.
2. i'd like to know more about, as i said the art, scenary, histoiry ect.

i'm glad to say the posts took the number 2. route.
i am also glad to see there are quite a few on here, happy for debates to take
place.
now that is italian culture...

[QUOTE=notaio]
Anyway, the controversy was silly, but really funny and unbeliavable for a pugliese like me: an assembly of englishmen/women (but american, canadian and finns too) fighting to assert the superiority of Puglia :eek: :D[/QUOTE]

Salve,

If you mean with 'finns' my Trentino posting so that was only an attempt to make a joke between the battle of the two :)

[QUOTE=Panteric]Salve,

If you mean with 'finns' my Trentino posting so that was only an attempt to make a joke between the battle of the two :)[/QUOTE]

I know you were joking and I know you are a man of peace ;)

Notaio,

Thank you for an interesting and insightful post. Most know that Puglia is not Eden, but for many, especially some lucky people on this forum, it is paradise.