In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
in all truth... i would say yes it could and does happen here.... and despite screams of foul and anti south...you will find its that area where you might well on occaision have concerns in regards to this....
however the area you are buying in dose not in general suffer from a mass of these problems and the simple solution ...and not costly is to use a firm of italian specialiast uk/italian solicitors....
in my opinion they will at least get the price of the property down by their fee for you ....to see who seems to be operting in the best way in this field see the thread on uk solicitors....or their party posting.... which as yet i havent read...... whatever for a small cost and sometimes with negotiating skills that will be recovered by them you can buy a house with a secure frame of mind....
...much like you i know things which i cannot post about estate agents,their practices and who....from the supposed governing body of the european association to various other bodies and companies... however they cannot operate beyond the law if you have independant lawyers checking them.... choosing a notaio of your own will not ensure anything much as their remit seems only to be notarising the documents regarding the sale.... in fact now because of their seemingly absurd pricing methods my suggestion would be to take up three estimates of their costs from different ones.... and if you use a uk based solicitors firm as in the point above... get them to require the estimates and go for the cheapest.... as what you will be paying for is their signature....
my points are
1 find house
2 contact uk/italian solicitors.. and fix their price...
3 let them negotiate and write the initial contract
4 let them negotiate and select notary... cheapest... funny thing is they often reduce their initial estimates if they know you are talking to two or three different ones.....
5 hand over power of attorney to the to let them sign final act.... it says you paying for an official translation....
6 you have the house you want...at an equitable price...secure that all of it is yours and if not they are leaglley actionable in an english court .... dont even think that you will get anywhere in an italian system....
following these simple steps will ensure you of a safe buy ....without having to worry much ... i would say....
and i think also that if all buyers venturing this way were to follow these steps the word might get around quickly that the english are not as stupid as most web based companies seem to like to think we are... and maybe a few of the practices might well dissapear... that make putting your life savings into a happy future something worthwhile and joyous .. not a worry...
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Bradley_uk]
Italy may be different, but I understand that the legal process of buying a house is very similar to Spain:
1) isn't the job of a notaio to pick these things up immediately?
2) could something of this scale happen in Italy too or do we have more guarantees than Spanish buyers?
3) how do we know that the notaio/geometra/estate agent/solicitor are all independent from each other? isn't it the norm in Italy that the estate agent "suggest" to the buyer to use certain notaios/geometras/solicitors? is it rude to say "I will chose my own ones"?
Bradley and Carol[/QUOTE]
Hi Bradley and Carol,
I don't know what happens in Spain, but I know how it works in Italy.
- A notay must check the building permissions and if the house has been built without permissions or differently from the authorizations, the notary is not allowed to draft the contract and if he does so, the contract is void and he undergoes disciplinary actions, legal responsabilities and the buyer can take action against him;
- There are illegal buildings in Italy (above all in the south of Italy).
They are constructions built without permissions or differently from the permissions given.
For settling this situation, thare have been 3 "condoni" (1985 - 1995 - 2002): who have made the building "abuses" regular, paying a fine (a sort of absolution law).
But remember that not all the abuses can be eliminated: i.e. if the building is in a natural park, or an historical/archeological area or the new construction is dangerous etc.
When a house is sold, the seller must give to the notary all the building permissions and (if there's one) a copy of his "condono" with the demonstration that all the fines have been payed.
- A notary is, by law, neutral. Anyway, because you're going to pay him/her, you have the right to choose the one you like and nobody can impose you a different choice
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Hi Bradley and Carol [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Buying a property overseas always carries an element of risk irrespective of where it is. The important thing is not to rush into making a decision and do what you can to mitigate the risks. If you are concerned when dealing with agents et al, don’t be afraid to make your position clear and don’t be afraid to ask questions, which has nothing to do with being rude. For me a client is rude and disrespectful when they waste our time. For example, changing a viewing appointment and not turning up without letting us know or asking us to produce project plans or 3-D images of a property, only to disappear without a trace. It happens a lot and I suppose it is part of the course. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Yes a Notary is an independent legally-trained public official, but they are not infallible and sometimes certain things can and do slip through. I also read in an international property magazine about someone who had purchased a house in Tuscany only to find that he had been inadvertently burdened with debts that came with the property. This should have been flagged up before completion but it obviously wasn’t.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]It is not all that bad however, and providing you take the necessary precautions things should go relatively smoothly. Just be careful of the following:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Unlicensed procacciatori (brokers or agents)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Consulenti immobiliari (property consultants and marketers) who are not iscritto nel ruolo[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Ex-pat and other non-Italian operators who, masquerading as agents or project managers, dabble in real estate without the proper qualifications and who only want to be paid in nero[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Any other individuals operating abusivamente (illegally) [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Where a conflict of interest may arise. For example, someone working full time in the public sector such a Geometra working full time for the local council [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Non-registered builders or immigrant “construction” workers[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]If you are not sure, ask to see their credentials and obtain a number of references. This is a good acid test. If they get hot under the collar then walk away. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]If you need any further guidance then do let me know.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Welcome to the forum, the "search" facility at the top of the page is a wonderful tool, most of the reassurances you seek will be found there. Good Luck with your plans.