1987 to dogs and puglia... and most probably half of italy

sorry puglia... today rai uno... uno matina... a disturbing profile of a dog rescue centre in the province of bari...

uno matina has improved of late...they have a very good journalist that runns the show from 6.45- 7.30... and they run weekly investigations...this week dogs.... and today puglia...tomorrow i bet somewhere else and this is only to highlight a nationwide problem...

the home ...licensed i think for 600 dogs holding around 1500... the owners claim and this is where the reason lies... e1,20 per dog per day.... maths fairly simple...they get this from the regional government for foood and care of the animals....

now the LAV visted the place claiming to want to adopt one of thes animals.... the owners said none were available ...why well its their meal ticket ...loose a dog ...loose a bit of profit... LAV people insist....smashed car eventutes...owners taking wooden clubs and basically getting rid of the bothersome people.....

this morning i watched over breakfast secret cameras filming the place ... 6 dogs in 1 metre square cages.... dogs fightingh and killing each other ...puppies lieing dead on the floors of the so called kennals....and owners kicking dogs to bits...

...its ok if the animal dies they can keep on claiming the allowance.... if they are adopted papers are filed and the allowance stops....

the tv investigative team then approached the head of the vetenary team of asl in bari to ask what was going on....he refused to answer or acknowledge the probelm.... maybe he can sue me ...but obviously he is the one paying out e 2000 or so per day to this home and obviously some of it is making a round trip....

next the visting health vet was asked about the place... she said she had visted and there were no problems....

next a regional politician... faced with the filmed eveidence he has promised that in the new year there will be a full investigation....

now can you imagine this happening in any other civilised country in the world................ well i can and of course you can.... but can you imagine any civilised country in the world once the situation was filmed and outed allowing it to continue .... well its still going on now... and there are still six dogs sitting all squashed up in a 1 metre cage while you read this .... and god knows how many one metre cages ther are in the place... and there are still fights going on and lesser dogs being ripped to bits... and dogs lying in kennels beside dead puppies and hungry enough to eat them.....

and before you tell me i moan too much or do something yourself ...we have two dogs ourselves from rescue centres... one we got as a puppy thrown out in the snow two years ago .... funny enough ... she is very small and very aggresive... but because in our house we speak english sho only bites italians that come... not any english visitors... the other one is still a puppy.... he has been in the house three weeks now and is only just beginning to come near us... still as soon as he sees another human scurrying off to his bed.... scared of the slightest raised voice or sudden move.... so god knows what had happened to him

puglia.... your newspapers would be better off publishing the disgrace on your doorstep.... because i am sure the people there would not accept what is being done in their province of bari by their officials as right... but maybe as someone once commented here on problems that come to light... " SO WHAT"

Category

General chat about Italy

what a distressing tale, sadly animal cruelty seems to exist everwhere, there is something particularly sickening about people profiting from it. Although I am probably being naive I trully hope the powers that be act on this now it has been opened up to public view via tv.
Well done in taking on the rescued dogs, it isn't easy as they need a lot of love and reassurance to feel safe, Thank god for people who care

This is a horrible story, and not the first instance of animal cruelty I've ever heard of. I think the presence of so many dog homes in the UK is testamant to the fact that perhaps we aren't all the brilliant dog lovers we profess to be. It's a pity, adriatica, that you choose this story as another opportunity to attack Puglia.

Luckily I'm not so petty as to start hunting for negative stories about Abruzzo. Or am I...

Thanks alot, John, for highlighting this problem. Perhaps local folks who read it here will spread word amongst their local friends which might help publicise the issue.

My mother and I took in a couple of rescue dogs in the past - one was a completely untrained wolf-German shepherd mix who didn't even know how to climb stairs (sadly died 8 years ago of cancer after 7 years with us) and was found wandering in the woods.

The other one was a rescued former racing greyhound who at the age of around 2 must have 'clearly' been too old for racing!! My mum's local rescue centre in Kent got him from the Welsh pounds where conditions sadly seemed similar to the ones you described in Bari! The lady who runs the rescue centre told her that in the pounds, a dozen or 20 greyhounds were kept in one large room, with only concrete floors and no baskets or blankets, and were fighting over one daily bowl of food! Only the strongest survived! She took away 3-4 dogs from there each week (!) but couldn't take any more as she wouldn't be able to re-home them all!

Pepper was indeed very sore and bleeding all over and starved, though you wouldn't believe it now ... ;) After 8 years with us, he's still a great runner but to this day runs away when he spots a man in wellies or carrying a walking stick!!! Seems clear to me what had happened to him! :mad:

I doubt people will ever stop from profiteering from the suffering of animals - I'd rather like to think that 'what goes around comes around' and bites them back somehow...

Stephanie

There are some mightily sick people about John, I would like to think that these people get into it because they care for the dogs, but I do not think that this is the case, I have seen a similar rescue centre here, which appeared to be closed last time I passed, and, it was set up like a puppy farm, presumably because they could claim more for all the puppies born there only the large females were speyed, the smaller, cuter ones were left "whole", but they didn't mention this to me when I took one of them... There were always puppies every time I visited, it was a very sad place...:mad:

When I started reading this article you would think Puglia was the only place that had strays, perhaps it would have better to talk about Italy in general rather than "Puglia Bash".

Before the Olympics Athens had a bad problem, their solution was to round up all the strays and have, I'm afraid, a mass 'put down'. This does highlight the 'is it better to put the animals out of their misery'? Certainly making strays neutered, stops the birth of unwanted wild packs of strays. The big thing is getting owners to take responsibilty for there dogs either by license or registration, and having proper RSPCA centres for those unfortunate animals that become stray or are mistreated. This would be a better aproach to the long term problem in Puglia, Abruzzo or wherever!

I`ve been following RAI Uno`s investigation too. I`m horrified but not at all surprised. Dogs here are a huge problem. The ones that don`t end up in `kennels` tend to roam around killing cats and I`ve heard of them attacking humans too. All the brits we know (including us) have loads of dogs but there`s a limit to what you can do. Thanks, once again to Alex and Lyn for taking in an extra puppy! We think Sofie is a great name!

[QUOTE=KateG]This is a horrible story, and not the first instance of animal cruelty I've ever heard of. I think the presence of so many dog homes in the UK is testamant to the fact that perhaps we aren't all the brilliant dog lovers we profess to be. It's a pity, adriatica, that you choose this story as another opportunity to attack Puglia.

Luckily I'm not so petty as to start hunting for negative stories about Abruzzo. Or am I...[/QUOTE]

please do tell.......no.. go on what do you know..........oh i see a topic on national tv is now classified as hunting for negative stories is it......

i really wouldn't go hunting for negative stories if i were you.....no really.

off to work now......

kate....to try and stop this seemingly endless stream and now tiresomely boring repetition of the message that i am anti puglia.... if you read my posts you will find that i rarerly try and compare puglia with abruzzo.. ...you will find in the main other people like to try that method....

in all honesty i get up every morning at 6.30 and watch this program...sometimes it seems to me quite boring .... the facts they report...last week it was on gaols and conditions...much the same as in england ...overcrowding and lots of old buildings....some new ones.... and do not spend my time looking for puglian stories... or for that matter any other

i think if you read my posting i have made it clear that i regard this as a national problem and that it is not my fault and i promise i am not that well thought of by the RAI that they would allow me to influence their programs to instigate a smear on puglia....

also in my post i made it clear that puglian people would most probably have been as horrified as me this morning to watch this program....

as to your point ...well it happens in the uk.... it most probably does.... my point is that in general it will be found out and something will happen.... my other point to you is that they have just broken up another paedophile ring here in italy.... they often do the same in england ....does it justify the presence or practice of anything that two countries happen to have the same problems... and is it a defence of a practice to say well they do this in england so i should be able to do it here

again if i did not make this sufficiently clear in the first part or have not done it in this part i regard this as a problem that is a blight on the whole of italy .... and george has posted in the past on the problems of the place in the marche.... i would post on this if it had been in abruzzo and would welcome from you any posts that initiated any thoughts on problems that are current and exist here in abruzzo or for that matter anyone elses postings on any subject negative or positive based on fact about the area....

i do not feel over defensive or insecure enough about where i choose to live to feel that the place is perfect.... i made a choice to live here rather than the rest of italy because unlike most that post here i have never been someone that has always regarded all of italy as somewhere i love... indeed if we had not known of abruzzo i would not have moved here most probably.... but i did do my research and as regards quality of life and crime, schools and health it always came out high as a resonable place to live....it is changing sadly for the worse.... areas around pescara and chieti and the developed adriatic strip with the increase in their wealth are becoming more of a target for organised criminality....

recently we had our own toxic waste scandal.... several old computers had been dumped in one of the national parks.... we are now famous for the hijacking of the money van on the A14 ..... and worst of all someone from abruzzo interupted the funeral of the last pope by climbing onto the roof of st peters.... as you can see we all have our problems to bear....

however with most probably the largest area of national park of any region.... the cleanest water.... the least road accidents.... the least crime...some of the best universities and schools... renowned hospitals and reasonably high employment.... one of the cleanest environments... i have little to complain about and since being here have rarely left the place... apart from trips to rome... and caserta... and even in those cases couldnt wait to get back... indeed in lazio had my passport stolen... later found and returned to the police by yes...someone from abruzzo...

so i regard my choice as fortunate for me .... but i am also not nieve... i know that the same thing will be happening here with the dogs... because it is italy and they have a way here of turning national or eu rules ...constructed to help ... into money making schemes for local politicos and private individuals who know them.... ... they often cannot believe their luck when funding is available for such stupid things as looking after animals and it does not take them long to profit from it.... but nothing happens here without political colaboration and powerful friends.... and so it always goes beyond the nasty little people selling the drugs...or abusing the animals...it always goes into the fabric of the society and the strong political/criminal associations here... to the newspaper owners who are the friends of the magistrates who are the friend of the police chiefs and so on and so forth.... it is a system without checks... which even the more powerful forms of the media are part of... maybe why the RAI produced the film from puglia rather than say rome....

John thanks for bringing this ghastly and sad situation to the attention of the forum.

..... and worst of all someone from abruzzo interupted the funeral of the last pope by climbing onto the roof of st peters.... as you can see we all have our problems to bear.... that was you Johnny wasnt it?

I would be pleased if you did tell me about horrors in Abruzzo as the last thing I want to do is go there and stick my head in the sand...if anyone dumps toxic waste on my doorstep I will be round to the comune with it pronto... literally!The same with hunters in my garden and if I catch anyone spraying organo-phosphates over my veg.Don't go there!

Italians should not have to put up with some of the crap their officials see fit to inflict on them..it's supposed to be a democracy isn't it?I certainly know there are people in Abruzzo who are pretty mad with the corruption in government local and national.

We all have a duty to our fellow human beings and animals to get involved even if its just joining amnesty international but better still find out if other people where you live are as fed up and you and organise!be really british ..write letters.

Becky

[QUOTE=KateG]profess to be. It's a pity, adriatica, that you choose this story as another opportunity to attack Puglia.

Luckily I'm not so petty as to start hunting for negative stories about Abruzzo. Or am I...[/QUOTE]

adriatiaca wrote:

to dogs and puglia... and most probably [B]half of italy[/B]

sorry puglia... today rai uno... uno matina... a disturbing profile of a dog rescue centre in the province of bari...

Where was the attack?

[QUOTE=elainecraig]When I started reading this article you would think Puglia was the only place that had strays, perhaps it would have better to talk about Italy in general rather than "Puglia Bash".
[/QUOTE]

adriatacas post started like this:

to dogs and puglia... and most probably [B]half of italy[/B]

sorry puglia... today rai uno... uno matina... a disturbing profile of a dog rescue centre in the province of bari...

I'm not very good in english but I didn't understand anything in the posting to be somehow against Puglia, it was all about dog shelters.

today in sicily .... the same sad situation ....although most probably the worst overall for stray animals....

however first off they syarted off with the head of the italian eco police... he was on site at the dog kennel mentioned in puglia ...his team was in control of the place but he wasnt prepared to comment more because of the ongoing investigation.... so at least the national ambient police are doing something.... again and i stress this because i dont want to get down in anti anything except cruelty it was stated that this is a national probelm ...and obviously they cannot visit all homes....hence the title of the thread...most probably half of italy....

the minister responsable was also interviewed today and talked about the number of dogs involved.... and what the government pays ...yesterday it was stated the homes receive e1.20 he said for each dog they pay e3.00.... which means a dogs value is e1000 per year near enough...

somewhere along the line other money is being skimmed off.... as he also says it was a good idea.... but human nature/criminality and corrupt officials in all of italy has led to massive abuse of the system....

the RAI investigation was most probably instigated by LAV... a sort of rspca here... they are active in all animal abuse cases and try to inform people of the consequences and conditions... there is most probably a representative in all areas where english concerned people inhabit in italy and they always welcome help....

The whole affair disgusts me. I've worked, voluntarily, in the UK and France already for rescue animal shelters and I will never be able to accept or understand how disgusting humans can be to these wonderful animals.

If these people don't do something what will become of these poor animals?

In France, in a simliar situation, there was an investigation and they simply put the animals down due to overcrowding and lack of standard sanitary conditions, imposed upon by their prisioners. Only to refill it a month later!

Here, my husband found a cat in the bins, left to die on a cold frosty night after a road accident. But Lolita's OK today, glad he chose this night to visit the bins!

Will the distress of these poor animals never end?

When I visit my vets, which is often, with the brood we have, we often discover other Brits or Americans trying to do their bit so come on guys, get over here, help these animals and rescue a few more.

How do we educate people to care?

today it was lazio....

was in a bit of a rush this morning... so details a bit scant...but same problems... however.... it has started a nationwide awareness.... reported on most if not all national news programs and highlighted in newspapers...

and ok i only know what happens here as regards dogs from personal experience and others will know better their own areas ...and when i talk about here i mean the province of Teramo....not abruzzo...

anyway.... a couple of months ago in the main square of Teramo there was a dog awareness day....all dogs and owners welcome...an adoption area and a fun weekend in the city centre for dog owners and dog caring charities...including the commune....

a few weeks ago a puppy adoption day was held and over 200 puppies.... microchipped and registered were adopted by locals most being italian.... code fiscales entered so owners are associated with their microchipped dogs...

the point is there are people here that do care...that do work hard and have respect.... and most probably other regions have this happening...

however.... by law the stray dogs you see are the responsability of the mayor of the commune....they have a legal and binding duty to care for these animals....and any animal that is suffering should have that situation made aware of to the mayor in the strongest possable way...if they do not respond and if they do not the police can be informed/the local magistrates or whatever to force him/her to act respond.....

although sometimes best to not upset things in certain areas...i am not saying risk your home or your family for the sake of a dog.....

:confused: John wrote a perfectly neutral story about the abuse of dogs, and yes even suggested that this problem could be nationwide. So, where is our objectivity, when some of us took offense?

I do not know if this is as a result of this programme but the chap who is painting my house tells me that when he took his little girl to school in Ostuni ,Puglia yesterday there is a big campaign for people to adopt a dog ( not sure if it is just puppies). The incentive is apparantly E200 payable to each family who adopts a dog/puppy. This is payable after one year when the home and dog are inspected and if the 'authorities' are satisfied that the dog is being well looked after , then the payment is made. I don't know the conditions to the payment yet, but hope the money is to be used to have the dog vaccinated and spayed ( is that an e or an a ???) or 'given the chop' in the case of males. My only concern is that i wish they were not doing it at Christmas ( a dog is for life not just for Christmas )
I think this goes a long way to resolving the problem...at least it is a start. Would hope this is a National Incentive and not just Puglia.
Let's hope the journalists get on board on this one to make the scheme work.

[QUOTE=alex and lyn] ( a dog is for life not just for Christmas )
[/QUOTE]

A turkey is just for Christmas and not for life :o sorry couldn't resist

[QUOTE=alex and lyn]I do not know if this is as a result of this programme but the chap who is painting my house tells me that when he took his little girl to school in Ostuni ,Puglia yesterday there is a big campaign for people to adopt a dog ( not sure if it is just puppies). The incentive is apparantly E200 payable to each family who adopts a dog/puppy. This is payable after one year when the home and dog are inspected and if the 'authorities' are satisfied that the dog is being well looked after , then the payment is made. I don't know the conditions to the payment yet, but hope the money is to be used to have the dog vaccinated and spayed ( is that an e or an a ???) or 'given the chop' in the case of males. My only concern is that i wish they were not doing it at Christmas ( a dog is for life not just for Christmas )
I think this goes a long way to resolving the problem...at least it is a start. Would hope this is a National Incentive and not just Puglia.
Let's hope the journalists get on board on this one to make the scheme work.[/QUOTE]

I have your concerns too, but I'm of the opinion that at least as you say it's a step in the right direction. I'm not far from Ostuni but haven't heard anything about it.

[I]Found another kitten, she's now sleeping by the fire with a full tummy and one eye open. Soooooo skinny![/I]

as an idea.... and most probably some of you may well know of other provinces that do this in Teramo....including and more especially that city....you find very few packs of dogs..... but as usual quite a few wandering the streets....

anyway via the commune a program was initiated to microchip and health check all the animals....some adopted off ....some in the commune dog pound.... which isnt too bad.... have visited ... and as mentioned before until the situation had been more controlled puppy adoption days....

anyway the stray dogs of teramo city...are now officially adopted by locals where they inhabit the streets.... they are fed and watered by individuals concerned over them ....but might not be able or willing to have them in their aprtments/houses... the asl vet makes tours also and the dogs are picked up....health checked and have their injections... and then let back to their wanderings...in general the animals look if anything a bit too well fed.... one of the reasons this might well be happening here is the presence in the chaamber of commerce of a member of lav... but i think when politicians ...local vets and local people get together things can be made better....

i am not saying all is wonderful... there are always idiots around.... but not all italians or italian cities ignore the problems.... and as i said before i would not regard the efforts made here as unique... i am sure others that live here in italy can provide other examples of the better side of life

Alex and Lyn, at least this scheme is a step in the right direction.

[quote=adriatica]as an idea.... and most probably some of you may well know of other provinces that do this in Teramo....including and more especially that city....you find very few packs of dogs..... but as usual quite a few wandering the streets....

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]A positive post, see the glass is not always half empty. I was beginning to get very worried about you again.[/SIZE][/FONT] ;) [/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=adriatica]as an idea.... and most probably some of you may well know of other provinces that do this in Teramo....including and more especially that city....you find very few packs of dogs..... but as usual quite a few wandering the streets....

They used a similar method in the UK to control feral cat populations, it seemed to work pretty well, the population steadily decreased over a few years.

1987 to dogs and puglia... and most probably half of italy

Puglia again?

Greek Olympics

...... ...... ..... ..... ......

in answer to Kateg

Disgusting

Where is our objectivity?

a step in the right direction