2052 speeding and fuel

[QUOTE=adriatica]...where a vehicle is spotted and through several kms is monitored and its average speed over quite a long distance is computed the identified vehicle if it does the journey too quick is then sent a fine and points lost....[/QUOTE]

Is this not an urban myth? It's something that's been floating for [b]ages[/b] but ultimately hot air................. innit?

[QUOTE=tuscanhills]Is this not an urban myth? It's something that's been floating for [b]ages[/b] but ultimately hot air................. innit?[/QUOTE]

No, not myth and coming to Britain anytime soon... in France they do it based on time from toll entrance to toll exit, which I would have thought they could do in Italy too.

[QUOTE=adriatica]two points of good news for those that travel or live here.....

in the area of lucca leclerc has opened a supemarket garage offering discount fuel.... mr leclerc comments when it was denounced as unfair was that it had been going on in france for thirty years and it was about time comeptition started in italy.... basically prices are fixed high here by the suppliers and leclerc is the first to challenge the big petrol chains.... it was also nice to see its a self serve with payments made at the exit.... i hate the italian idea of self serve where a machine seems to eat your euro note and then you have to work out which pump you should use...however for those of you that are conscious of saving a little on costs...remember where this service operates you pay slightly cheaper than if an attendant does it for you..... i think mr leclercs fuel is about 12 cents a lt cheaper than normal

the other piece of news is that the italian motorways in three areas of italy now have sensors fitted... one is the A1 ...another A14 and i think the A4 .... its a trial of a new system which will not only save fuel and lives but will add to the revenue of the italian government.... its an average speed system where a vehicle is spotted and through several kms is monitored and its average speed over quite a long distance is computed the identified vehicle if it does the journey too quick is then sent a fine and points lost.... uk vehicles will be regarded in the same light as any italian ...[/QUOTE]

John,

I thought there was no speed limit on the Superstrada's. If there is a limit what is it. I never saw any sign's.

sorry sdoj is right...not myth.... and definitely already up and running here... on those motorways i have mentioned...not the whole distance but in significant trial areas.....

cannot remember the name of the system begins with a T.... and sounds awsemly effective....

as a boring driver that finds 135-140 kmph easily comfortable to drive up and that also meets travel time requirements without killing myself i find that i happily agree with the system.... as i regard the danger of getting killed by those doing above this...certainly when sitting behind me at this speed and being able to read the designer label on their sunglasses as slightly dangerous to my own health....

boring statistics here suggest 6000 injured every year ...around 2000 permanentley disabled .... 40 or 50 young people killed most weekends...the major contributing factor to all these boring facts.... speed ...excess of....

italians seem incapable of controlling themselves behind the wheel of a motor car.... or accept rules... even to the detriment of their children.... often you see cars here with babies still carried in the front in loving mothers arms...or standing between the two front seats chatting away to parents.... and none of my sons school friends get into the back of the car and think of attaching a seat belt.... the laws are the same here as elsewhere... its the fact that no one bothers to apply them...

so i welcome enforced control.... and hopefully not too far down the line after they have eaten up all the points on their licence maybe a bit of common sense.... in fact one set of parents are being prosecuted for killing their child for not having the child wearing a seat belt.... culpable murder....

... anyway ... the speed control thing is fact.... but i know what you mean about italian hearsay and lenght of time to introduce things....

John

The only signs I have seen on the A14 have been ones for 130 apart for reduced ones near hazards. I was lead to believe that this was the max speed on these roads unlike the German autobahn. This infers you are one of the speed limit + just under 10% drivers relying on accurate speedo readings:D

The average speed systems fitted in certain areas of the UK rely on camera systems to provide evidence and I haven't as yet seen these on the part of the A14 we have driven on.

Regards

Dave

[QUOTE=tuscanhills]Is this not an urban myth? It's something that's been floating for [b]ages[/b] but ultimately hot air................. innit?[/QUOTE]

Camera systems that recognise registration numbers and calculate average speed over a stretch of road are operational in various places in the UK. The one nearest me is in Ayrshire where the system covers a 46km stretch of the A77, a road that was notorious for speeding, accidents and fatalities. Anyone who's [I]really[/I] interested can read all about it [URL="http://www.camerascutcrashes.com/news.htm"]here[/URL]. It seems there are other such systems in Nottingham, Northampton and South Yorkshire. The system is called SPECS (Speed Enforcement Camera System) in the UK.

Al

the speed is 130 kmph on motorways unless signed otherwoise...in rain it reduces to i think 100 kmph.... in fog where visabilty is restricted by i am not sure but think it is around 100 meters the speed is slowed again to i think 50 kmph.... apart from the 130 ... which i know for sure the other restrictions are open to correction but do exist

the timed distance is new here ...you will not see it...the sensors are located in the road .... as i say it is not the full stretch..... but in trial areas on those motorways mentioned.... but as they are likely to generate an awful lot of revenue from this system i would think it will not be long before the areas covered are increased... believe it or not it is an extreme worry here regarding the amount of people killed and injured on the roads.... and the huge costs involved...

i hold up my hands to speed over the limit on the motorway ... we all try to push our luck on occaision... i do however also drive under the speed limit as well.... before this system came in i always regarded the speed up to 140 kmph as negotiable....as being about 6 mph over the limit.... now i might rethink my driving habits....

... they also blanket mark areas with a general sign warning everyone everywhere here that speed cameras are operational.... that way they are covered when you are caught....

[QUOTE=adriatica]the speed is 130 kmph on motorways unless signed otherwoise...in rain it reduces to i think 100 kmph.... in fog where visabilty is restricted by i am not sure but think it is around 100 meters the speed is slowed again to i think 50 kmph.... apart from the 130 ... which i know for sure the other restrictions are open to correction but do exist

the timed distance is new here ...you will not see it...the sensors are located in the road .... as i say it is not the full stretch..... but in trial areas on those motorways mentioned.... but as they are likely to generate an awful lot of revenue from this system i would think it will not be long before the areas covered are increased... believe it or not it is an extreme worry here regarding the amount of people killed and injured on the roads.... and the huge costs involved...

i hold up my hands to speed over the limit on the motorway ... we all try to push our luck on occaision... i do however also drive under the speed limit as well.... before this system came in i always regarded the speed up to 140 kmph as negotiable....as being about 6 mph over the limit.... now i might rethink my driving habits....

... they also blanket mark areas with a general sign warning everyone everywhere here that speed cameras are operational.... that way they are covered when you are caught....[/QUOTE]

This really is bad news john if things carry on like this i'm going to take the few points left on my driving licence and buy an old 500 again....

The Panda gets a bit uppity at 98 kmh, so I guess I'll be OK, LOL, best keep the Alfa in the barn though:)

John

Looking at the technology used in parts of UK it would appear that cameras are also required for this system. The vehicle needs to be identified and summons/fine documentation sent to the owner of the vehicle. Sensors in the road may provide data, but not evidence unless the Italian system doesn't need evidence/proof for conviction. Unless the Italian authorities are using the new technologies of having chips on the car or embedded in the number plate which act as tracking devices, not only do they show speed but the show GPS style location.

Dave

cameras are still needed ...but if you locate them in all the iron mongery around toll booths they are not easy to spot....

remarkably i thought the more relevant news would be the freeing up of the fuel price fixing here.... obviously at the moment only if you live near lucca ...but hopefully in a supermarket near us all soon.... i reckon to save about ten euro a refill ..... if i was paying leclerc prices...which works out at a least 3 bottles of drinkable wine.... only when ive finished driving for the day.......

saw this

[url]http://www.floria-publications.com/italy/news_from_italy/italians_have_now_installed_spee.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=adriatica]the other piece of news is that the italian motorways in three areas of italy now have sensors fitted... one is the A1 ...another A14 and i think the A4 .... its a trial of a new system which will not only save fuel and lives but will add to the revenue of the italian government.... its an average speed system where a vehicle is spotted and through several kms is monitored and its average speed over quite a long distance is computed the identified vehicle if it does the journey too quick is then sent a fine and points lost.... uk vehicles will be regarded in the same light as any italian ...[/QUOTE]

This seems to be the usual mixture of FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Average speed systems (known as SPECS in the UK) are present on UK roads, but I haven't seen any contracts being let in Italy. There has been discussion of it in the Italian motoring press, in relation to the increasing of the speed limit to 150km/h on the A1, but so far I see no installation of the necessary equipment. Also it's difficult in Italian law for this policing by robot to work, a few challenges could see any such system rendered invalid.

The polizia stradale are busy with radar and camera traps most days on the A14. However they tend to have no interest in UK motorists because it's too difficult to chase up and an Italian court cannot put points on a UK license. They can however apply fines.

[QUOTE=YNot]Looking at the technology used in parts of UK it would appear that cameras are also required for this system. The vehicle needs to be identified and summons/fine documentation sent to the owner of the vehicle. Sensors in the road may provide data, but not evidence unless the Italian system doesn't need evidence/proof for conviction. Unless the Italian authorities are using the new technologies of having chips on the car or embedded in the number plate which act as tracking devices, not only do they show speed but the show GPS style location.[/QUOTE]

There are trials at present in Italy of automatic incident (crash) detection systems which use sensors embedded in the road surface. These are installed in the UK every 500 metres along the motorway. The Italian version is a cheap, cut-down version of the system which provides warnings by flashing lights on bollards at the road side. I work on the commissioning and installation of such systems in the UK and in Italy and I don't think much of the system chosen for use in Italy. As in the UK, installation of these systems has caused much discussion and "man in the bar" discussions about what the intent it with these systems. Hence much confusion about what they are, how they work, and what the intent of installing these systems is.

For those who can read Italian:-

[url]http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2005/12_Dicembre/20/serra.shtml[/url]

For those who can't - average speed detection systems go live on three autostrade on friday (average over 10 - 25 km distance) - with lots more to follow next year....

fieramosca... thankyou...saw the original details of this on the news here...tg2 ... but have struggled to find it in the newspapers... and until you posted had little hope of proving the fact... now in black and white... obviously a top secret contract un beknown to world famous speed trap installers ... and fines in europe can now be sent to any address.... so i think uk registration marked vehicles are as liable as italian....

i regard this as a positive step forward in the fight here against what can only be described as motorway madness ..... and the huge deathtoll every year .... italian roads are good... italian driving habits sometimes leave much to luck and the saints hanging off the rearview mirrors...

Obviously none of you have lived in France, home of the statistically worst drivers in Europe! A recent poll on French driving by Brits on the Cote d'Azur said 50% found the French driving habits "life threatening!" I find Italy relaxing! Here in France they have more speed cameras - but they warn you!
Sarah

Why not try the source - full info here.

[url]http://www.poliziadistato.it/pds/stradale/tutor/index.htm[/url]

sarahd

have lived in france.... and i think you will find that at this stage in history italy has marginally worse figures than france... but in essence more or less equal.... i think you will also find the rate for greece is the worst in what you might call the original eu area of 12 ...with spain and portugal close behind... if you go to the eastern european states ...all figures become insignificant by comparison....

so you are twice as likely to be killed on the roads here as in england but 4-5 times more likely in greece...and 10 times more likely in latvia...

the other thing with road accident statistics here is that they are more or less irrelevant apart from the death rate which they cannot diguise... most accidents are not reported..... or even investigated unles someone needs the undertaker.... what is sad about it all is the almost lemming type habits of the weekend where numerous young people get killed...a sort of 40 per weekend deathrate is about the average... and because of the habit here of avoiding wearing seatbelts or having children standing between front seats or babys in mothers arms the actual death rate for accidents here is high compared to the rate of reported accidents... so an awful lot of children and young adults never have much of a life expectancy .... once they get in a car

I think the 'Strage di sabato sera' - which should probably really be domenica matina, distorts the figures in Italy. I believe a significant proportion of road deaths are young people who are drunk/on drugs/tired driving back from discos etc - often long distances such as Rimini- Milano.

For the most part I prefer driving in the northern half of Italy to the UK (Abruzzo and all parts south are a different matter). There is a totally different style and unwritten rules to the UK but there is a far higher level of adherance to the conventions. An example is that no-one will let you out of a junction into a traffic queue with a polite 'after you' but nobody minds much if you just carefully pull out into the queue until there is no option but to let you in - it's just the way it works.

I do agree with Adriatica about the non use of seatbelts etc - particularly when children are involved. I think attitudes are slowly changing and the patente a punti will help as in many other areas such as I'm amazed how many people have given up serious speeding and are adjusting estimated journey times - someone I know frequently did Roma - Firenze at approaching 200 kph (where he could - yes he's one of those guys in an Alfa flashing in your rear view mirror when you don't move into the right hand lane quickly enough) now he claims to 'only' do around 150.

Just realiosed I'm rambling on so I'll stop there - wine etc.....