2050 Good Bye Forum

Rosie, I totally agree with your comments and myself don't bother with the forum half as much which is sad as I loved this forum to bits but feel its gone to pot :(

[QUOTE=paula hampson]Rosie, I totally agree with your comments and myself don't bother with the forum half as much which is sad as I loved this forum to bits but feel its gone to pot :([/QUOTE]

Me too! It is a great shame that a few 'contributors' have managed to completely change the character of the forum.

Thankyou Rosie for writing.
I fully agree with you and I also wish to make a stand against the direction the forum has been going.

i know i seem to upset a lot of people ..... but i would regard it as sad that anyone interested in italy and its people took serious offence about anything much that i post ..... and if they did to reply in a serious way as to why....

i think removing oneself from a situation because of other peoples inability to take things a bit more lightley is also wrong.... in a sense the bullies win... in replies to most of my postings of the more controversial nature i get either the sense that most people cannot except reallity or take it as an oportunity for personal or silly attacks.... and a few ...but it always seems to be a few are quite interested to learn more and maybe open up a discussion in more depth.... without getting personal...

i have just handed out retribution... i think to alex and lyn.... about highway robberies in abruzzo ..... and to me it is tounge in cheek.... if they were to find it unsuitable i would apologise... and hopefully they know me well enough from this forum to understand the irony involved...

so i would say instead of removing yourself... post more and post on real things and problems ...., show your knowledge of the place and show your apreciation for the good and your realisation of the bad..... support your own view of how this place should be.... and work as hard as some do to try and bring it down to open it up and to let it carry on being a place of interest...

interestingly a parellel situation in real life here developed... a black player of football in messina stopped the game the other day when he was what they called buuu...d here... . he was persuaded to continue to play by the other players ...but in matches since the players have held up the game for five minutes at the start to hold a protest against racism in football and the bully tactics of a significant few...... if nothing was said and nothing was done...would anything change... luckily that black player ...unusual for footballers is very articulate and intelligent.... he has been interviewed and spoken out with courage and clarity and hopefully something will change a little by his actions..... not a lot most probably but each little step forward is a help.....

your posting is effective and clear.... why not use that ability as he has done to make it so that any of us that abuse the place with stupidity get bored and leave

Hello,

I must admit that I too feel that this forum and some of the threads have really gone downhill since I joined a few months ago. I know that as I am not yet living in Italy, that I cannot post much in the way of answers to people's problems , but I like to read certain threads that may help me in the future.

Some of the threads now seem to me to be very negative and destructive towards fellow members, when I have read some of them I feel very sad.

I feel that this is doing the site a great disservice.

This is just my opinion and I felt that it needed to be said, so that perhaps people will think twice before they post a thread in future.

By all means, people still need to state their own opinion about matters , but please try and be a little more tactful.

Francesca

Have got so disappointed and bored with this forum that (although still try and check in every day, just in case) can't be bothered to read many posts. It's a shame. It used to be such a great and informative place.

What I find strange is that a number of people have sniped or started arguments regarding the contents of a post when it's clear to everyone else that the post has either been misread, they haven't bothered to read it fully or they've just twisted the meaning to suit their negativity.

Read the post!
Answer carefully!
CHILL!

[QUOTE=derekL]....Read the post!
Answer carefully!
CHILL![/QUOTE]
.......and remember that the forum is [b]ours[/b] and a reflects our collective will, so if you want to take it in another direction............. post, be active!!!

[QUOTE=Francesca]Hello,

I must admit that I too feel that this forum and some of the threads have really gone downhill since I joined a few months ago. I know that as I am not yet living in Italy, that I cannot post much in the way of answers to people's problems , but I like to read certain threads that may help me in the future.

Some of the threads now seem to me to be very negative and destructive towards fellow members, when I have read some of them I feel very sad.

I feel that this is doing the site a great disservice.

This is just my opinion and I felt that it needed to be said, so that perhaps people will think twice before they post a thread in future.

By all means, people still need to state their own opinion about matters , but please try and be a little more tactful.

Francesca[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Francesca and don't want to read another unfounded jibe pointed Puglia's way or another bad taste joke about concrete Clarkes so long as I live, which I hope will be a good while longer.

What I want to know is this: is Rosie reading the responses to her thread? And if so, can she be disqualified?

[quote=sdoj].... don't want to read another unfounded jibe pointed Puglia's way... [/quote]

.... or any other region, I assume??

[QUOTE=Rosie]Over the past few weeks I have followed various threads which in my opinion dont follow the general layout of what was expected from such forums. When I first joined this forum it was about people helping people who all share a common interest- Italy. Some of the recent threads bordered on verbal abuse and slander, which in my opinion is not in the best interests of the forum, nor the sponsors of the forum, being Italy Mag.

I really feel that this forum needs to go back to basics, and remember what is was created for. I dont know whether I speak for myself, maybe others feel the same, but I think Sano understands where this forum could well be going.

I wish everyone connected with the Forum the very best in achieving there own dreams, but for now we will retire gracefully to farming the land and enjoying the highs and lows of living, La Dolce Vita.

Good luck to everyone[/QUOTE]

If you don't like a specific topic don't read it. It may not be of interest to you but it is to others. It gets boring reading and discussing how somebodys house purchase or move to Italy went. Arguments about different regions of Italy are a way of life. We even argue about neighboring towns let alone regions.

Rosie,

I know what you are saying but maybe the forum administrators should just consider writing off the ones that have created the bad vibes and allow the rest of us to carry on with the valid and interesting contributions that the majority of people have to submit.

Being here on the forum is to help each other, chat, have lively discussion about Italy etc, just don't read the bits that offend you.

Please reconsider.

[quote=Frank]If you don't like a specific topic don't read it. It may not be of interest to you but it is to others. It gets boring reading and discussing how somebodys house purchase or move to Italy went. Arguments about different regions of Italy are a way of life. We even argue about neighboring towns let alone regions.[/quote]

Frank, I don't think anyone's complaining about the arguments or the heated discussions. It's the personal attacks that are putting people off.
Quite intimidating if you're a new member, I would say, and likely to have a negative affect on their participation in the forum.

I agree no direct personal attacks should be allowed.

Was there not a special area created to allow banter type threads. If they remain in there surely that's fine. More sensititive/sensible members can stay clear. I would be unamused if I looked at a recipe/legal/Property thread to find Aliena [B]still[/B] discussing Clarkes footwear however comfortable and exact size they were (surely there's a fashion thread for this).

As previously mentioned I am curious at to why posts cannot be removed by the moderators without closing/locking the whole thread and warnings given to constant offenders.

Macy "writing off " people who create bad vibes sounds a bit drastic to me.

Personally I read threads applicable to me and ignore the rest, must admit I don't read any about food at the moment.

Dave

ps Aliena if you are a rep for the above shoe firm can I get a discount on school shoes for my son?:D

[QUOTE=tuscanhills].......and remember that the forum is [b]ours[/b] and a reflects our collective will, so if you want to take it in another direction............. post, be active!!![/QUOTE]
seconded, we agree with this comment

Interesting commments! The forum is after all what the forum members choose to make of it. No need to drop out completely, just post in threads that you are interested in and ignore those that upset you.........??

This forum can be a nice playground, where people can exchange informations, experiences, puns, recipes etc.,
but this forum can also be a real [B]Forum[/B], that is a place where people can share, face or contrast opinions.
This is not a bad thing.
I often don't cope Adriatica's opinions, but, anyway, they are often thought-provoking and productive, so it's not an offense to contrast him.
So, where's the limit ?
It's not a matter of personal attacks (unless they are crude), because even a personal attack, might be accepted if useful to explain a well motivated idea.
The limit, in my opinion, is that some threads and arguments are totally unproductive: they do not lead us anywhere.
Some of the competitors are like kids horsing around and shouting, willing to demonstrate they are winning the game, even if all the other people has no real interest for their match.

notaio.... better put than most.... your command of the english language can put many of us to shame.... and the sentiments are as i wish i could have expressed myself...and as clearly..... dont hold your breath though .... ill only agree with you when i think you are right

[QUOTE=DavidandLinda]Interesting commments! The forum is after all what the forum members choose to make of it. No need to drop out completely, just post in threads that you are interested in and ignore those that upset you.........??[/QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Also, please be aware that moderators can't be everywhere, so if you see something start to slide downhill, or an inappropriate thread being posted, please report it and follow it up with a PM (checking emails is also not always possible on a busy working day but we do try and log in here a few times a day to see whats potting).

Hopefully we can get this community back on track and return to the peaceful days of yore...

[QUOTE=adriatica]notaio.... ill only agree with you when i think you are right[/QUOTE]

... Me too...

[quote=notaio]It's not a matter of personal attacks (unless they are crude), because even a personal attack, might be accepted if useful to explain a well motivated idea.
The limit, in my opinion, is that some threads and arguments are totally unproductive: they do not lead us anywhere.
Some of the competitors are like kids horsing around and shouting, willing to demonstrate they are winning the game, even if all the other people has no real interest for their match.[/quote]

I just want to re-iterate what I've already said. Personal attacks are NOT a good idea, crude or not. You Notaio, or I, might be able to handle an attack well and deal with it constructively or dismiss it as childish but some people obviously can't and it affects them more.
Why is it necessary? Quite simply, if someone has to resort to a personal attack then they're not articulate enough to continue the argument. Also, I doubt very much whether they would act like this if they were face-to-face with other members. I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that people who act like that under a veil of anonymity wouldn't, under normal circumstances, say 'boo to a goose'!

I agree on the childishness and 'horsing around' in the forum. There seems to be a lot of dwelling on the same old snipy, unimportant 'issues' and it spreads to other threads. Usually, the same people and their argument will always be 'well, it's boring everywhere else. I don't want to talk about houses, kitchens and olive trees.' If it's SO boring, LEAVE! Join a BASE-jumping forum! Pathetic.

During my short time here, 2 extremely valuable members have left due to the actions of others. First, Will, now GeorgeS. The forum will be worse without them both. But, even within minutes of GeorgeS announcing his 'retirement', a childish reaction to the announcement appeared in another thread not far away. Surprise, surprise!

I think every forum member has to use some judgment as to whether to reply to a thread or not. I don't even bother reading some that go awry because I'm just not interested in them .... I'll go to the more interesting topics and am happy with that.

It would be a loss if some members took these rantings personally and withdrew for that very reason. There are plenty of great threads out there to read... don't dwell on the negatives.

I do like a lively discussion (including all the pros & cons) ... as long as it doesn't end in personal attacks to the extent that some 'attacked' members don't want to come back at all. Perhaps a quiet PM to the offending person by the moderators would calm things down?

It would also help if everyone was more accepting of each others' views whether we like them or not. We've all got different experiences and look out for different issues in life. Just accept this simple fact & we should be getting on fine...

Stephanie

[QUOTE=derekL]I just want to re-iterate what I've already said. Personal attacks are NOT a good idea, crude or not. You Notaio, or I, might be able to handle an attack well and deal with it constructively or dismiss it as childish but some people obviously can't and it affects them more.
Why is it necessary? Quite simply, if someone has to resort to a personal attack then they're not articulate enough to continue the argument. Also, I doubt very much whether they would act like this if they were face-to-face with other members. I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that people who act like that under a veil of anonymity wouldn't, under normal circumstances, say 'boo to a goose'!

I agree on the childishness and 'horsing around' in the forum. There seems to be a lot of dwelling on the same old snipy, unimportant 'issues' and it spreads to other threads. Usually, the same people and their argument will always be 'well, it's boring everywhere else. I don't want to talk about houses, kitchens and olive trees.' If it's SO boring, LEAVE! Join a BASE-jumping forum! Pathetic.

During my short time here, 2 extremely valuable members have left due to the actions of others. First, Will, now GeorgeS. The forum will be worse without them both. But, even within minutes of GeorgeS announcing his 'retirement', a childish reaction to the announcement appeared in another thread not far away. Surprise, surprise![/QUOTE]

I think Derek has summed it up pretty well. No-one is objecting to controversial but very real issues being raised, nor to lively debate. It is when a potentially useful and interesting thread is 'hijacked' and degenerates into a series of personal and possibly deeply insulting attacks. We know nothing of the other forum members cultural/personal backgrounds nor of their personalities, so it is very easy, even with the best intentions, to have comments misunderstood and to jump to the wrong conclusions re a fellow member - this can surely be eliminated simply by a degree of tact and consideration being used. However, of late, there have been instances when the personal attacks were not accidental, were far from subtle and were clearly deliberate - this is when it becomes unacceptable. Those responsible may find it very funny, but their 'victim' may not. GeorgeS has contributed enormously to the forum and it is a great shame that he and others now feel enough is enough.

with the above postings. Some of the posts I have been reading today are really intimidating.
It will be a great shame if people start to desert the forum because they are afraid to post for fear of intimidating responses.

I dispise bullying of any kind. :mad:

Since none of us know each other perhaps tact and diplomacy are of extra importance. Oh yes, not to mention good old fashioned MANNERS!!!

None of this means we cannot have lively or witty debates and exchanges it just means we should consider the feelings of others whilst doing it. Is that SO WRONG?

Some of us like the information about the more mundane side of living in Italy!
House, Olives, Kitchens, Gardens, Traditions, Food, where to buy things, etc, etc. It is after all the little things that make the world go round!?

Echo the sentiment, these are the things that attracted me to the forum in the first place.
It's nice to share the info and learn from one another and the recipes yum, sometimes I can nearly smell them,

just talking about bread, olives, vino, gosh I almost could be there. i wish, still we are hopefully on for late Jan or late Feb completion fingers crossed and Ryanair cheap flights godwilling!! as we have to take the children this time, they are insisting and are forming a war committee if we don't!!

Please Mr powerful Ryanair man reduce those flight to Pescara down to 1 penny as with 7 of us travelling 14.99 is starting to look expensive!!!

[quote=derekL]I just want to re-iterate what I've already said. Personal attacks are NOT a good idea, crude or not. You Notaio, or I, might be able to handle an attack well and deal with it constructively or dismiss it as childish but some people obviously can't and it affects them more.
Why is it necessary? Quite simply, if someone has to resort to a personal attack then they're not articulate enough to continue the argument. Also, I doubt very much whether they would act like this if they were face-to-face with other members. I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that people who act like that under a veil of anonymity wouldn't, under normal circumstances, say 'boo to a goose'!

I agree on the childishness and 'horsing around' in the forum. There seems to be a lot of dwelling on the same old snipy, unimportant 'issues' and it spreads to other threads. Usually, the same people and their argument will always be 'well, it's boring everywhere else. I don't want to talk about houses, kitchens and olive trees.' If it's SO boring, LEAVE! Join a BASE-jumping forum! Pathetic.

During my short time here, 2 extremely valuable members have left due to the actions of others. First, Will, now GeorgeS. The forum will be worse without them both. But, even within minutes of GeorgeS announcing his 'retirement', a childish reaction to the announcement appeared in another thread not far away. Surprise, surprise![/quote]

Also agree and in fact posted a similar point in George S [URL="http://italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2061"]Ciao Tutti[/URL] thread.

Yes, Please don't quit because some people get angry or nasty. There are so many of out here in cyber space that desperately need concrete advice, help and understanding of customs and culture of Italy. In life we come across people who are negative or difficult or mean but we don't give up on life. Stay and out numbered the nasties!!! Ignore the abusive posts.
sarah

sono d'accordo

ernie

Dear Disappointed,
It is easy to condemn others on the sidelines, but to be a participant is more difficult; it exposes one to the critique of others. From the limited number of postings during a given time period, I must conclude that some of the disappointed members are mostly spectators. If one wants to change the world, one must lead by example; quitting is never the answer.

For example, I saw a need for a Chat-Room to eliminate certain postings, which should probably not be part of the forum. I did not complain or quit, I suggested the creation of a chat-room. In fact, I created a temporary Chat-Room to facilitate those who wish to chat.

I hope that all of you disappointed members will reconsider and stay on, we are only strong in numbers, as far as the collective wisdom of this forum is concerned. We are all important!

[CENTER][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]For the New Year consider the following:[/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]Ref. Andy Andrews' research[/SIZE][/FONT]

[LIST]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Select your friends carefully[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Acquire wisdom through learning and/or by selecting people smarter and better in the field of interest[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Be a person of action[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Have a decided heart[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Have a grateful heart; choose to be happy[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Practice Anger Resolution, and not control; forgive even yourself; greet each day with a forgiving heart[/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Persist without exception[/SIZE][/FONT][/LIST]

A while ago I suggested the following code of conduct for our forum; has it ever been implemented?

[URL="http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1689"]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1689[/URL]

Ignore List:

When you go to your Control Panel you can actually add names to the "Ignore List", hence there is no reason to get upset, just add them to the list, and you are done with them, whoever they are.