2067 To hunt or not to hunt

[QUOTE=Richard and Marie]We have searched on other threads but cant find anything on this particular topic on which we would appreciate advice/views.

When we bought our property earlier this year, the lawyers, estate agents etc advised us, in answer to our general question, that 'in Italy the countryside is open to all'. Thats fair enough but when we were there last week we found that it was a bit like Piccadilly Circus at times on our and our neighbour's fields with men (not women) carrying guns!

A lot of the properties in the area have 'Vietato di Caccia' signs around their borders. Ours and our neighbours (who hunt) do not.

We have no intention of hunting ourselves and are not that keen on having people hunting on our land, though we know that we have to be sensitive to local customs and practices. Our question is, if we do not want anybody hunting on our land can we just put up no hunting signs or is there a (legal) process we have to go through first? And will it make any difference anyway if we do put signs up!!!!?[/QUOTE]

Put the signs up.
Unfortunatly, the owner of a land mast accept the fact that his propersty it's open to hunt, unless he/she "closes" it or unless there are cultures that mighy be damaged.
A legal way to "close" the land, is putting up signs of "divieto di caccia" (hunt forbidden).
We had a referendum, years ago, in order to change this law, but it didn't win, not because people voted "no", but because not enough people went to vote.

[QUOTE=Richard and Marie] Our question is, if we do not want anybody hunting on our land can we just put up no hunting signs or is there a (legal) process we have to go through first? And will it make any difference anyway if we do put signs up!!!!?[/QUOTE]

I sure I read somewhere, perhaps on this forum a while back, that you have to apply to your local commune and they will issue you with whatever to put up the 'Vietato di Caccia' signs, you cannot put them up without going through this process. Also, I think I am right in saying that there is a free right to hunt on any land unless the signs are displayed and no shots should be fired within 100m of a house. There is a legal basis to the signs, some law ref. no. is quoted on them, so I would imagine they do carry some weight. Clearly in Italy hunting is a tradition, but you do see plenty of signs around so you would hardly be bucking the trend if you do choose to put some up.

[QUOTE=Richard and Marie] if we do not want anybody hunting on our land can we just put up no hunting signs or is there a (legal) process we have to go through first? And will it make any difference anyway if we do put signs up!!!!?[/QUOTE]
I'd heard that you need to post the signs & pay an (ahem!) registration fee to have them.

See P3 of this thread [url]http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=533&page=3&highlight=caccia[/url] it's a tad obscure, so I'm not surprised you missed it!

I always find it a bit disconcerting to find men with guns wandering at liberty through our garden. I'm very ambivalent about this though; on the one hand, I disapprove of the fact that hunting can be used a pretext for trespass while on the other, I enjoy the occasional [i]lepre alla papardelle[/i] and [i]cinghiale[/i] as much as the next man.

It is illegal for a hunter to discharge a gun within 150 metres of a house though it is all but impossible to enforce this. We were sitting on our terrace one day last autumn and heard a gunshot, followed by the pitter-patter of lead shot falling around our feet. I had a good rant at the hunters and they were suitably apologetic, but I was careful to end the discussion amicably. One thing you should avoid at all costs is threatening hunters; since they are effectively free to enter your property at any time, unless it is fenced like the Abu Gharib detention centre, they could come back while you're out and take their revenge in any number of ways.

Thanks for all your views. We'll have to do a bit more research into this and a bit more thinking. However, it does seem that even if we do put signs up, it will be difficult to enforce, and, bearing in mind Marc's comments, we would have to be very careful as to how we went about it!

I would just like to say how much I have appreciated this thread - it is the sort of informative, straightforward, uncomplicated discussion that this forum should be about even if it is dealing with a controversial subject.

[QUOTE=notaio]
We had a referendum, years ago, in order to change this law, but it didn't win, not because people voted "no", but because not enough people went to vote.[/QUOTE]

What was the referendum question? Was it a motion (a) to prohibit hunting on private land [B]or[/B] (b) to withdraw the right of the property owner to ban hunting on his land?

I have fairly strong feelings against hunting. Particularly the idea that chaps carrying guns will be free to wander through my garden looking for small animals to slaughter. However, I suspect my views may moderate if the local boar should decide that said garden is their new salad bar. :D

Some of the areas I'll be looking to buy a house in have large National Parks. Is hunting in the Parks limited or banned?

Al

national parks will allow hunting as a culling method and it is strictly controlled.... a balance has to be maintained ...when you restrict animals to certain areas... i find this quite acceptable...

hunting here in abruzzo is to me ...anyway in my locality.. also acceptable... there are large amounts of wild boar...foxes ...and heaps of pigeons etc... however it is not so controlled..and it would not be amiss for a hunter to down a bird of prey if the local farmer say was worried about lambs.... or to shoot a stray dog...for near enough the same reason... but there again there are always people that will do this even if hunting wasnt allowed.... generally they would use poison...so it is not a hunting problem in a sense

the hunting here is generally undertaken by locals...not rich townspeople out for a bit of shooting... its also seems to be quite a social event.... and as has been said previously it is quite easy to get them to stop coming on your land with a sign....

however you also have a social responsability to yourself ... ie you dont want to be the local pariah... or maybe your principles are more important.... its a delicate balance to try and find an answer to ... and again is one of the problems when you buy a rural property here that we maybe dont take into account ... and should...

[QUOTE=adriatica]national parks will allow hunting as a culling method and it is strictly controlled.... a balance has to be maintained ...when you restrict animals to certain areas... i find this quite acceptable...[/QUOTE]

I'm pleased to learn that. My views on hunting aren't dogmatic: I know that [I]something[/I] has to control the numbers of non-domestic animals and if it isn't predators, then it will either be disease, starvation or guys with guns.

[QUOTE=adriatica]the hunting here is generally undertaken by locals...not rich townspeople out for a bit of shooting... its also seems to be quite a social event.... and as has been said previously it is quite easy to get them to stop coming on your land with a sign....

however you also have a social responsability to yourself ... ie you dont want to be the local pariah... or maybe your principles are more important.... its a delicate balance to try and find an answer to ... and again is one of the problems when you buy a rural property here that we maybe dont take into account ... and should...[/QUOTE]

I've not been losing sleep thinking about hunting, but it is an issue I've been aware of for as long as I've been visiting Italy and one I've been pondering more seriously since I decided to buy a rural place there. I've always used campsites during visits to Italy and one of the things that I've always noticed is how few and how wary birds are on Italian sites as compared to those in the UK.

I am very conscious of the problems that incomers can cause for themselves by treading on toes and I do think one should attempt to respect local traditions. But then I also think that not all traditions are worthy of respect and not all long-standing social activities should be encouraged. I suspect my approach to the hunting issue is yet another thing that I will only be able to make decisions on once I have a place and have considered what exactly is going on around my new home. If hunters do generally respect the wishes of landowners, I suppose it might be possible to let it be known that I have no problems with them dealing with boar, foxes, pigeons and rabbits, but I want them to leave everything else alone.

Al

Do not have a problem with the hunters around us, as our garden is fully fenced and gated. Hence it has become a sanctuary for the birds which we really enjoy.

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"]I must admit despite all the guidebooks pointing out the number of wild birds to be seen in the parks of Abruzzo on a 1 hour journey from Pescara to Sulmona I only spotted one measley buzzard! Here in Cornwall I can see 2 or 3everytime I take out the dogs as well as woodpeckers,sparrowhawks,kestrels and many other birds!!

I strongly suspect that despite the legal situation in the National Parks hunter's are still shooting everything that moves as they do in other parts of Europe.

I fear that this is yet another issue that Brits moving to Italy are being mealy mouthed about for fear of 'upseting the locals'. I fully accept that in a rural commmunity there are those who will wish to continue hunting for food in the way that they have always done.But there are strict rules in The European Community about the protection of wildlife and I see no valid reason why anyone in Italy should be allowed to get away with ignoring them.After all we are exepected to jump through hoops to conform to any local regulation the comune see fit to inflict on the population!

My approach would be to be totally honest with my Italian neighbours about my feelings and also to show them that watching animals and encouraging different species into your garden csn be just as enjoyable as shooting them. As I've said before I believe that Italian rural communities resemble those in the UK 50 years ago when we were far less removed from food production.What I would wish for Italy is that they can find a way to appreciate and respect nature while remaining connected to it in a way that we simply no longer are.

Becky [/SIZE][/FONT]