1562 Palio

[QUOTE=derekL]Cracking documentary last night on Irish TV, about the Palio in Siena. Called 'The Last Victory', it concentrated on the inhabitants of a particular district, Civetta, and followed their preparations for the big race.
My god, the passion they have for their district and the importance of winning! An old man, in his 80s, had witnessed 8 Civetta victories and all he wanted was to see another before he died. I really felt for them when they lost. I'll be cheering for them from now on.
Obviously, sometime, I'd like to be there but after seeing the 'free for all' between the supporters at the end of the race, I don't think I'll be taking the kids!

Derek[/QUOTE]
To the Palio di Siena is just complete folly...going there yourself is worse.
imagine if you're talking about the main one inAugust.You arrive about two hours before the start,unless you are some big shot spending money like Euro 5.000 upwards to sit on someones balcony overlloking the piazza you are completely locked in the centre of the piazza under a temperature of between 30-40° celsis the track is around you so you cannot leave till the end,there are no toilets or rather you can't get to them,no water(better not to drink)thousands of riotous people all around you(pretty claustrophobic)fortunately it's prettyu quick (you only actually see your few yards of the event,like most horse races)it will take you minimum 1.5 hours to actually get out of the place to the car parked about two miles away at the bottom of Siena,thats if you can manage to avoid the street fighting between the various contrade which starts as the race finishes..it is not for tourists,there presence however numerous is not particularly desired and is not referred to only to foreigners if you were from Milano it's the same as being from Bristol.Once is enough.it's a dedicated internal modern day medieval fight between the contrade of Siena.interesting but avoidable i've been twice the second time regretting it....

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]Taking the kids to the Palio di Siena is just complete folly...going there yourself is worse.[/QUOTE]

I think I said I [B]WOULDN'T[/B] be taking the kids...
So you didn't enjoy it then? :rolleyes:
Surely can't be any worse than going to a Millwall match?

Couple of comments, the August Palio is not the MAIN Palio. THe two are different and are both important.

It does not cost 5000 to sit in the stands or on a terrace. Normal prices for better seats go for around €300. If you organze yourself before the Palio you can find parking etc. without a problem.

Fights can be a problem but it is not likethey are going on everywhere. Normally it is just two contrade not all of them.

For more information, I wrote an article on the Palio and the contrade for SlowTrav which you can find here [url]http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/tuscany/siena_palio.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=cristina]
For more information, I wrote an article on the Palio and the contrade for SlowTrav which you can find here [url]http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/tuscany/siena_palio.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

Cristina,
Many thanks for the link - absolutely fascinating to get an insight into what it is all about (and your personal viewpoint is a huge bonus) :)
Thanks again, L & B

Really interesting Cristina, thanks for sharing the link. Being a mother of three (now grown) boys, I know if we had something like this in our area our boys (when they were young) would have loved to play out and pretend these kinds of events. :)

Hoe do you get tickets, and is there anywhere you would recommended to stay, I've always wanted to go! :)

For tickets, there are some sources on the article I wrote. As for where to stay, the best IMO is Palazzo Ravizza. You must book for two or three days I believe and they fill up normally the year before for the days of the Palio but it is worth it. If you wanted to stay at other places (although most have a 2 or 3 day minimum during the Palio) I also like Villa Liberty. If you check out [url]www.slowtrav.com[/url] you will find loads of hotel, apartment and B&B recommendations.

during summer when i was in italy, we were driving from le marche over to tuscany, and decided to pop into siena to have a look around. turns out that the day we were there was the palio, and the place was packed. even so, we managed to find a park about 15 minute walk from the centre, get a good spot in the middle of the piazza, and enjoyed it enormously. the atmosphere was amazing, so much emotion and excitement, and not at all anti touristy in my opinion. you really have to be there to get a sense of the spectacle, and it is definately worth it. the funny part was, we were standing in the piazza wondering why siena was so much more busy than other italian places, and had to ask a very nice american couple what everyone was doing here. she almost fell over in shock that we didnt know it was THE palio!! anyway, it was a great experience.

james

Derek , what a surprise you must have had ! Summer is peak season for festivals in Italy but there are other unique ones throughout the year. Some of those in my area that are fascinating are the Wedding of the Trees held in Vetralla on May 8th for the past 700 years. You can catch a documentary about it and the Via Franchigena on the MT (Macchina del Tempo) channel of SKY TV on Dec 22 and Dec 29th .
Lots of other festivals in May such as the Barabbata in Marta (May 14th), and the huge sit down lunch (over 2500 people) in Gradoli on Lake Bolsena on Ash Wednesday . At Christmas take the kids to see the Presepe Viventi that are held throughout the northern Lazio area, the one in Vetralla (Dec 24-Jan 7) is the oldest and best. Other festivals are listed on [url]www.folclore.it[/url] and [url]www.finesettimana.it[/url] and Dan Hostetler's website.

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]imagine if you're talking about the main one inAugust[/QUOTE]

Like cristina said: there is no main one :mad:

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]You arrive about two hours before the start,unless you are some big shot spending money like Euro 5.000 upwards to sit on someones balcony overlloking the piazza[/QUOTE]

wrong ! You can get seats on bleechers for less money.

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]you are completely locked in the centre of the piazza under a temperature of between 30-40° celsis the track is around you so you cannot leave till the end,there are no toilets or rather you can't get to them,no water(better not to drink)thousands of riotous people all around you(pretty claustrophobic)fortunately it's prettyu quick (you only actually see your few yards of the event,like most horse races)it will take you minimum 1.5 hours to actually get out of the place to the car parked about two miles away at the bottom of Siena[/QUOTE],

wrong: you can buy water in the piazza-area
the view is good from most parts of the piazza
it takes you around 15 min to get out

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]thats if you can manage to avoid the street fighting between the various contrade which starts as the race finishes..it is not for tourists,there presence however numerous is not particularly desired and is not referred to only to foreigners if you were from Milano it's the same as being from Bristol.Once is enough.it's a dedicated internal modern day medieval fight between the contrade of Siena.interesting but avoidable i've been twice the second time regretting it....[/QUOTE]

there is no streetfights, why do you tell that ?
sometimes something can happen between rival-contrada's but that's it.

:mad:

it makes me angry to read this negative stuff about the sienese tradition.

[quote=elefante]it makes me angry to read this negative stuff about our tradition.[/quote]

Well I, for one, would love to see the race...!

A couple of years ago we were on holiday about 20km south of Siena and happened upon a superb ancient parade of colour and energy. We went into the piazza and although it was hot we were OK as we happened to have drinks with us. We stood at the top of the slope and could see the whole race. The atmosphere, excitement, singing, colourful crush reminded me of a great rock concert. We loved it, the kids loved it and..................

It was only a practice!!!

Same here derekL the real thing must be amazing:cool:

p.s. Tight Yorkshireman didn't pay a thing:D

[QUOTE=YNot]The atmosphere, excitement, singing, colourful crush reminded me of a great rock concert[/QUOTE]

> See !?

If people from Siena read this, it's not nice. Like all the stuff 'Sebastiano' wrote, is not true !
Palio is not made for tourists. Palio always existed (at least in the last 500 years). So nobody should complain about hot temperature, no toilets, to many people, fights and whatever. It is like it is ! Everybody is invited to come and see but don't complain. And don't expect that you can understand. It's impossible. The contrada-people are born in the contrada. They grow up with this tradition.
And please, don't compair the Palio with a great rock-concert :mad:
Siena has nothing against people from outside, but you should walk in slowly, try to understand and inform yourself about some rules you have to respect. Otherwise you think about the Palio like Sebastiano and that's the wrong way.
Grazie.

elefante

I did not wish to demean your solemn historic event:o

What I wrote was that the [B]atmosphere reminded me[/B] of a concert.

Thousands of people colourfully dressed cheering, singing and thoroughly enjoying themselves.

Without any trouble!!!

I was going to liken it to a sporting event like soccer, but didn't due to the trouble aspects (of soccer).

Standing in a crowd watching your heroes perform was my feeling anyway.

Groups of men jumping up and down singing at/to opposing groups around the square and cheering was obviously misconstrued by us as fun. Our lack of Italian language obviously meant we missed the point. Maybe they were like soccer crowds and were chanting "Yore gonna get yore flippin heads kicked in!!".

Obviously we got the wrong end of the stick and should have kept our fun-loving selves away from this sombre event.

Dave (watching his family and himself with Green Day at Milton Keynes Bowl):cool:

[QUOTE=YNot]elefante

I did not wish to demean your solemn historic event:o

[/QUOTE]

I understand. It isn't right to compair the traditional Palio to other events like soccer games or rock-concerts. It's also not a replica of a medieval horse race which is organised to entertain the tourists and to take advantage out of it.
The Palio always existed and it will always exist. Of course since TV started to broadcast it it became kind of 'public'. So tourists came to the city and became part of the event. In the last years the Palio growed to a tourist-magnet and sure it's good for the economy and the region in general. We know that. But unless, the Palio stay's for the sienes people wich are living the contrada-life. And nothing will change that.
So I would say to all them who are interested to come and see:
Inform yourself. Read about the Palio. Read some rules and you will have a lot of fun and enjoy the whole thing around the Palio. If tourists just show up to get drunk, to buy a Contrada-flag because it looks similar to the flag of there favorit football-team, and dont treat it with respect, well then better stay home. Or in the wearst case they buy a flag from a Contrada wich is not even running and then they walk trough the rival contrada-district. That's happening every year and that's the kind of stuff alot don't like. But like I said before; everybody is welcome to come and see, but don't compare it to anything else. Palio is unique and nothing else can be the same.
Ciao a tutti.

Welcome to the forum elefante. Found your posting about the Palio very interesting as you speak as a local of Siena. We have never been but now we live in Italy, it is certainly something we would like to experience first hand one day.

Thank you for your welcome. It will be a nice experience to come to Siena and watch the Palio. But like I said. You need to inform yourself about some 'rules' you need to respect, and it would be also easyier to understand the whole race if you know what's going on. And please don't buy a contrada flag from the cheap stands. Especially if tourists walk around with the flags on there heads it's terrible.
Take care and have fun in Siena. The Palio di Provenzano 2006 is only 6 months away.....
Ciao !

[QUOTE=elefante]> See !?

If people from Siena read this, it's not nice. Like all the stuff 'Sebastiano' wrote, is not true !
Palio is not made for tourists. Palio always existed (at least in the last 500 years). So nobody should complain about hot temperature, no toilets, to many people, fights and whatever. It is like it is ! Everybody is invited to come and see but don't complain. And don't expect that you can understand. It's impossible. The contrada-people are born in the contrada. They grow up with this tradition.
And please, don't compair the Palio with a great rock-concert :mad:
We have nothing against people from outside, but you should walk in slowly, try to understand and inform yourself about the some rules you have to respect. Otherwise you think about the Palio like Sebastiano and that's the wrong way.
Grazie.[/QUOTE]
Certo,Elephant you didn't understand a word i said.The Palio of Siena has no need whatsoever to be defended by you and i never attacked one of the greatest medieval enactments surviving in Europe.The whole point is that i have seen on the occasions i've been there and had to help (unwillingly on two) tourists unable (too stupid or old or infirm or demented) who thought the Palio was something you just popped to whereas it's something if you're coming from outside takes a good part of the day for people who don't know or understand what they're getting into it's decidedly better they don't go
you answered this yourself in your post so i don't understand why you're suprised if qualcuno fuori Siena lo dice..pace e bene

elefante, can you please tell everyone about the last Palio and your contrada? I think everyone will be very interested.

Cheers, Derek

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]...i never attacked one of the greatest medieval enactments surviving in Europe.[/QUOTE]

You wrote in your post wrong info's. Sorry. And believe me, the Palio need's to be defended !!!
I think that your post is not really positive. It's immoderate and not nice to read. Sorry but that's my personal impression. And believe me, the Palio is not something to come and see in one day. Because you need a little bit of knowledge.
And by the way: the Palio starts 4 days before the race.
So if you want to get the 'whole' excitment (at least reach the max. level you can as a person from outside), then you better be there when the horses get given to the contrada by draw.

And Sebastiano ? You did not write your post in the way that everybody can understand that you 'helped' toursits. You wrote it in a offending way, by telling only negative things....

Allora? Scusa ma io la vedo cosi, anche se il mio inglese non è ai tuoi livelli....

[QUOTE=derekL]elefante, can you please tell everyone about the last Palio and your contrada?[/QUOTE]

Dear Derek,
it's not possible to find words for what happend this August at the Palio del'Assunta.
You know, if you are from a contrada who did not win for so long, it's almost impossible to find a way to express what happend.
First of all you are in an other world and you cannot believe it.
And then, slowly you start to realize that your contrada won and the happiness has no limits.
All the years the contrada lost, it made the people stronger. They stepped together and every year there was new hope, also with bad horses. You try to see the positive, also if you know that with a bad horse and one or both rivals on the track it will be difficult, but you just believe it. And then ? It never happend.
Many times we were close, but the luck was not on our side. To many years.
Like the older man in the movie 'the last victory' said: 'Every contrada should win one Palio every 10 years' - 'then everybody would be happy'. But that's not how it is. Bruco did not win for 41 years, then finally in '96 they won. Civetta is not winning since '79. So for 26 years they are hoping. We did not win since '61 ! Almost 2 generations never had the feeling of celebration and jubilate.
The rivals do everything they can to make you loose. So it's hard if you have 2 rivals and almost every time you get the chance to be part of the race you get bad horses.
But this year all changed. In the drawing we got the best horse from the past 3 years. And then our palio-staff got the jockey who allready won twice on that horse and who won the last 2 Palios. The people in our contrada were going crazy for the whole 4 days.
The jockey made a tremendous race also if he got whipped several times by the rival contrada during the race. So finally we won, and for what happend after the race there is no words. Sorry. People from every age huging eachother, crying, tremble for the excitment. Just unbelievable.
It was time. It's hard if every year you walk in you district dissapointed and crying after the race. But the hope dies last and so we got the Palio this year and we will pass a great wintertime. After 44 cold winter now we will pass a hot one....
:)
Ciao !

Thanks for sharing that with us elefante. Hope you don't have to wait another 44 years!

Here is a review of the movie...

[URL="http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=13337"]http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=13337[/URL]

Here you can find info's in english:

[url]http://www.ilpalio.org/palioenglish.htm[/url]

and here, watch yourself:

[url]http://www.ilpalio.org/palio_assunta_2005.wmv[/url]

what a race !!!! :)

un saluto a tutti voi....

[quote=elefante]Here you can find info's in english:

[URL="http://www.ilpalio.org/palioenglish.htm"]http://www.ilpalio.org/palioenglish.htm[/URL][/quote]

Now I know why you call yourself elefante! :)

[QUOTE=derekL]Now I know why you call yourself elefante! :)[/QUOTE]

I guess I know why you know now ! :p

[IMG]http://www.ilpaliodisiena.com/foto/2005/agosto/cencioago05a_small1.jpg[/IMG]

[COLOR="Red"][COLOR="red"]Buon natale a tutti voi e un saluto ![/COLOR][/COLOR]

... and a very merry Christmas to you too, elefante!

Cheers, Derek

We went to the palio about 4 years ago - arrived found an hotel and stayed for about 4 days. It was great and cost nothing for we stood in the centre of the Palio to watch - then followed the winning horse and rider etc along the streets to their contrada and then to the Cathedral where a service was held. Firstly the horses were taken to their local churches and asked to enter... it was great and very exciting. I would not have missed it for worlds.

Automatic entries for the Palio di Provenzano, july 2nd 2006:

[B]Pantera, Drago, Giraffa, Valdimontone, Oca, Selva, Istrice[/B]

3 need to get elected by draw on may 28th:

Remaining contradas for draw:

Aquila, Bruco, Chiocciola, Civetta, Leocorno, Lupa, Nicchio, Onda, Tartuca, Torre

> this are the contradas wich did run in july 2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Automatic entries for the Palio dell'Assunta, august 16th 2006:

[B]Pantera, Tartuca, Aquila, Drago, Bruco, Nicchio, Oca[/B]

Remaining contradas for draw on july 9th:

Chiocciola, Civetta, Giraffa, Istrice, Leocorno, Lupa, Onda, Selva, Torre, Valdimontone

> this are the contradas wich did run in august 2005

See and feel the way DerekL did, is only possible if you come to the Palio prepared and informed. A regular 'one day tourist' would never notice what DerekL did. In wearst case a regular tourist would laugh about the sienese crying for a normal horse race (from there point of view).
Palio is life for the sienese people and it's run all year long.
May be also this thread helped DerekL to get some info's before he came to Siena.
Now we wait for sunday and if Torre get's selected I'll be a bit in the better mood. Because hope is the last thing you loose.

Hi Phil

Glad you had a great time. Can you post some of the best photos here, within the thread.. just a few that capture the spirit of the Palio with maybe a short description of what was going on at the time it was taken?

I'd love to see a couple here.. as well as all the others on the website! :D :D

You know Pippo? He was my paggio when I got married 10 years ago. Luckily he came home from the hospital yesterday and will be okay although he has a lot of bruises and a few bad cuts (lip and leg).

Salasso said he couldn't stop (the horse had a mind of its own) but as I never saw the end of the race I can't really confirm. All I know is that horse wanted to run.

Mi dispiace per la Torre. I too am happy Oca didn't win but more imprtantly, happy that Gigi fell on his face!

Did somebody check out the movie's on the link I posted ?

[url]http://speciali.rossoalice.virgilio....ena/video.html[/url]

Would like to read some opinions.

Hopefully one or the other can make it down to Siena to watch the Palio.

This 10 contrada's never compete against eachother in this constellation.

Interesting.

Ciao.

[QUOTE=derekL][LEFT]

Thanks for keeping it going elefante!
Thats interesting. Wonder what kind of money they're paying the jockeys to make those deals? Will your contrada do the same?

[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

No, they will not. There goal is another.
1st of all Torre doesn't even know if they run in '07. And they have a rival to keep an eye on. So they need to be open for different kind of solution's.

Ah by the way....
Siena got elected as the city with the highest quality of life in Italy....
well we knew that allready....:)

Ciao.

[quote=elefante;61675]Drago (by Nicchio), Valdimontone (by Lupa) and Oca (by Valdimontone) :confused: got selected to complete the 10 partecipating Contrada's for the Palio di Provenzano on july 2nd 2007.[/quote]

Does that mean you're getting out of the city for this one?

[QUOTE=derekL;61717]Does that mean you're getting out of the city for this one?[/QUOTE]

It means that I wait for the horse draw...then I wait to see who will ride on Oca and take a look how they do in the first few practice's.
After that I'll decide if I stay in Siena for the Palio....

Sat.-Mon. Medicine check horses

Wed. Palio presentation

Thu. Night practice runs

Fri. Tratta

Fri.-Sun. Practice

Mon. Palio

[LEFT][quote=elefante]
PS: DerekL ? See you in Siena in august ok ? Also if I don't have much time during the Palio for sure we can meet during a morning practice and have a coffee after, okay ?[/quote]

Absolutely. I'll look forward to it. I'll let you know.

Cheers,

PS. Congratulations on being selected again.
[/LEFT]

The practices are over now.
1st pratice won by Onda (Chaos at the start with 3 horses down, and Chiocciola out of the Palio)
2nd practice won by Oca
3th practice won by Drago
4th practice won by Valdimontone
5th practice won by Drago
6th practice won by Valdimontone

Tonight at 7.30 the Palio (if the weather will be ok)

Lets wait and see, but Giraffa is my choice all the way. If contrada Giraffa do not qualify on the 27th of May, then I will choose Giraffa again for August.

111 horses are signed for the veterinary tests.
76 would be able to run because of there age.
16 allready did run in the past years.

I understand your natural "concern for humanity", and that you would (perhaps in a war situation) choose to help the victim rather than to take the photograph. It is a difficult line to walk, but consider some of the iconic visual images from Vietnam and later wars: the fact that the photographer bit the bullet and kept shooting influenced (and I don't think I am exaggerating here) international opinion - and indirectly rescued a whole load more victims than the few who that individual photographer could have helped.
I know that often the same press who publish these sort of photographs will turn on the guy behind the lens and accuse the photographer of callousness. I can understand the distress of the photographer being put into this position, but I believe that it is important to have confidence in your own professionality (as far as this sort of difficult conflict creates a problem with the commission which you have accepted), and centre on the fact that you are there to record what happens. Not to intervene or judge - that is stuff for the editorial pages, not for the hard news pages - but, nowadays, who can tell the difference :) But that's another whole can of worms...

[QUOTE=Anastasia]In bocca al lupo per tutti!

Va bene cosi? :D :D[/QUOTE]

No, non va bene !
In bocca al lupe per tutti, tramite una.... !!!!

Cosi va bene, e ci posso vivere ! :)

Ti saluto Anastasia.

elefante

[LEFT][quote=elefante]Did somebody check out the movie's on the link I posted ?

[URL="http://speciali.rossoalice.virgilio....ena/video.html"]http://speciali.rossoalice.virgilio....ena/video.html[/URL]

Would like to read some opinions.

Hopefully one or the other can make it down to Siena to watch the Palio.

This 10 contrada's never compete against eachother in this constellation.

Interesting.

Ciao.[/quote]

Of course, I did. I watched them all! Excellent, thanks!
Your link, above doesn't work. But here it is from your previous post.
[URL="http://speciali.rossoalice.virgilio.it/speciali/paliosiena/video.html"]http://speciali.rossoalice.virgilio.it/speciali/paliosiena/video.html[/URL]

One thing I'm interested in... At the start of the race, there is always one horse & jockey who hangs back a little from the others at the starting line and the other jockeys watch him very carefully. Is this intentional? Is this the favourite to win the race?

I can't be there in July but I'm hoping to come to Siena in August.

Cheers,
[/LEFT]

Draw for the partecipating Contrada's for the august palio will be hold on sunday july 9th, 7 pm:

Automatic entries for the Palio dell'Assunta, august 16th 2006:

Pantera, Tartuca, Aquila, Drago, Bruco, Nicchio, Oca

Remaining contradas for draw on july 9th:

Chiocciola, Civetta, Giraffa, Istrice, Leocorno, Lupa, Onda, Selva, Torre, Valdimontone

Okay Scrapspal
I got it. Giraffa wil run for sure on August.
But that wasn't the idea. The question in the contest was who out of the 9 will get selected ? So the idea was to choose 3 contrade. It's just a funny game to keep the thread running.
But if you are fixed with the Giraffa, ok. But I can tell you that Giraffa will not have a easy year.

The contrada-members always cared for the horse. The horse is given to the contrada 3 day's before the race and it is the most important thing. Until around 10 years ago more 'accident' happend, because the horses used for the palio were thoroughbred horses. they had to much strenght for the trial.
Now they only use halfbred horses with anglo and arab blood. So it's safer and also the protection's on the track became better.
The horse is adored by the contradaioli. The jockey is not that important. It's all about the horse. Because the horse can also win without a jockey. If that happen the victory is a vittoria scossa.
Ciao.
elefante

[LEFT]
Elefante, great to see that Torre have been chosen. Congratulations!! 2 wins in a row, I'm sure, would be good!! Hope the celebration dinner went well.
Were the 3 pictures taken when each Contrada was chosen? Is this how everybody finds out - i.e the chosen Contrada's flag is waved from the window?

Cheers!
[/LEFT]

Caro elefante.. mi dispiace, ma io la penso ugale per tutti tramite...!!! :p

Non vedo l'ora 2 luglio perche' sai bene che vinca la meravigliosa pantera! :D

Ad ogni modo.. vedremo.

Saluti

:) :)

I can't believe that he (Salasso) couldn't stop the horse. Everybody is able to do it. He is a good jockey and made a great race. So latest between Fonte Gaia and San Martino he should be able to stop. He hit the guy from Torre after the San Martino with almost full speed. I saw it. It was a nightmare.
But like I said he made a great race as rincorso.
Gigi ? Well I guess he made a good race. He was injured but showed that he has the willing to win. Also if he had less pressure in the Tartuca this year. He just gave up before the last Casato.
Salasso was to good. Caro Amico was to good. I guess Elisir is not the horse everybody thought.
Unfortunately we were out. We still don't know why. It's incredible.
Auguri ancora, Cristina. Sono contento per voi della Selva. Ciao.