2143 No More Underdeclaring!!

Can you post any more information or perhaps a link? When do these new rules come in?

These are some extracts from today’s il sole 24 ore newspaper

Notai. Taglio del 20% alla parcella dei notai. Inoltre il valore dell'immobile sul quale si applicheranno le imposte sulla compravendita sarà quello catastale e non quello definito fra le parti. Le due disposizioni sono applicabili solo per gli acquisti di immobili destinati ad abitazione, realizzati fra persone fisiche, senza interessi commerciali.

… roughly translated, it says… 20% cuts on notary fees. Moreover, the value of the property on which the taxes are to be levied will be based on the land registry and not that defined between the parties. This will be applicable only to dwelling-use properties between individuals without commercial interests.

The 20% discount on notary fees may be a false friend in that the real value of the transaction gets written in the contract with any fiscal consequences. However the notary fee in theory would rise based on this commercial value and thus gets balanced by the mentioned discount to compensate.

In another article I’ve seen….

l'applicazione di questa nuova procedura non sarà automatica, ma subordinata ad una richiesta che l'acquirente dovrà rivolgere, in tal senso, al notaio.

Which says that the application of this new procedure will not be automatic but subordinated to an application request that the buyer will make to out the notary.

David
[url]www.tuscanydoc.com[/url]

[quote=David]an application request that the buyer will make to out the notary.[/quote]

Notaio - how will you feel about being 'outed'?:D

[QUOTE=brendangfc]Notaio - how will you feel about being 'outed'?:D[/QUOTE]

It's something that the National Council of Notaries was asking since at least 15 years, so I'm really glad of this new law,:)
Remember that it is still "in coming": it should be approved within the end of this year and and will be valid for the next years.
Because it can still be changed, I'll inform the forum when it will pass definetly.

Maybe its the way I'm reading it, but there seems to be a conflict between the title the post - [b]No more underdeclaring[/b] - and what David goes on to say. I've tried making sense of it, both before and after my evening thimble-full of Sangiovese, and I still can't reconcile the two.

Is what you're saying David, that the practice of 'under-declaring' will become the normal and legal procedure after the new law is passed?

Mark,
"Underdeclaring" the price as we know it today will no longer exist as the land registry will be used for determining the taxes payable (as was its original purpose) and the actual sale amount will appear on the deed without any tax implications. If you were to do the same, say this year, then you might have the taxman after you although tax assessments are generally not triggered if you stay above the notional rental income (rendita catastale) x 115.

David
[url]www.tuscanydoc.com[/url]

Thanks David!

Just an update on this thread. We were due to complete on 30th December but were contacted by our solicitors yesterday to say that the new law was coming in to effect on 1st January and it would be better for us to wait until after this date. We were going to declare a value at just over 50% of the price but the solicitors reckon that our taxes will be much lower under the new law.

However, they also said that the next stage of the new law will be for cadastral values to be reassessed meaning that tax take for the government will not ultimately be affected. There appears therefore to be a window for buyers after January 1st but before cadastral values are reassessed. The view of our solicitors is that if you are going to buy do it in the next six months when the taxes you will pay will be at their lowest!

It's also made it alot easier for us as we weren't going to be present for the completion and organising bundles of cash/bankers drafts was proving a bit of a nightmare. Now we can just pay the whole amount by bank transfer!

Excellent news brendangfc, thanks for the update.:)

John and Dee

The land registry values have become incredibly complex over the years and many attempts have been made to update them without much success. Apparently, the inland revenue is looking at starting with the low hanging fruit where the categories and classes assigned are way out... ie houses that are classed as officially sharing toilets with other houses etc etc. From what I read in the papers and see on geometra forums etc the task is daunting, making 6 months look very very optimistic. Having said that, the comune benefits big time for updating such values through local ICI taxes. The central government is constantly cutting back on funds for the comune (2006 even more so) and the latter are obviously going to take a very "aggressive" approach in the near future.

David
[url]www.tuscanydoc.com[/url]

This has now become law following approval in the Senate on December 22.

David
[url]www.tuscanydoc.com[/url]

legally it has always been safer to declare on the catastal values.... and indeed the notary should have made sure that this was in effect true... and now that its law...have seen recent new contracts and have talked to agents and they now hesitate to give an off the cuff estimate... they say it will be based on the communes valuation....

however the communes would love to have these values reassesed... generally upwards i would think... but i think this will not happen for a while now.... it would be bad politics with an election coming up to introduce a new rateable value for houses...dont forget italians also have to pay this tax.... with a new electoral system coming into affect its going to be a bit touch and go for berlusconi... and he will not want even rumours of this new tax increase to get around... so i think the re rating of italian property will be coming in within the next two years... at least the law... and it will take a fair while to complete... but i could be wrong

so for now rateable values are quite low compared to market values.... it will change... the communes and regions are desperate for new funds...as has been said....

in a way its funny living here at the moment .... the pain of change which we all saw in the uk a fair while back now has arrived on the italian shores.... and its a bit like watching history repeat itself all over again...