2186 Notary versus Lawyer?

This is a topic that has been covered a number of times on the forum and there is a definite split between those favouring using a solicitor and those against it. We are just about to complete the buying process and can say we definitely have benefited from using an Italian solicitor based in London.

If you do a search on 'solicitors' or look for threads in the 'Legal' section of the forum you will find much more detailed discussion of the pro's and con's.

Good luck with your purchase!

... i would regard a solicitor as almost essential with some companies operating here in abruzzo.... apart from the fact they check the price level of the property they also know a lot about which companies cause problems by non conformist practices.... concur with previous post ...look around and i think for around e2000 you can get all things checked... and from what has been said they also negotiate notary fees and virtually everything else...

[quote=marco mando]Hi,

I'm buying a place in Abruzzo and my agent says the Notary does all the necessary checking on title, searches etc. therefore I don't really need a lawyer.

I understand a lot of purchases do go through in Italy without using a lawyer - what do you much more experienced folk think?

Grazie,
Marco[/quote]

Marco...

If you would like to contact me via a pm, I will be more than happy to provide you with a set of practical guidelines.

[QUOTE=brendangfc]This is a topic that has been covered a number of times on the forum and there is a definite split between those favouring using a solicitor and those against it. We are just about to complete the buying process and can say we definitely have benefited from using an Italian solicitor based in London[/QUOTE]

We are also due to complete in January and would recommend the use of a solicitor in any event: we are using the same lawyers mentioned by other users in this forum and by brendanfg (Giambrone Law; [url]www.giambronelaw.co.uk[/url]) and I also agree with adriatica that the cost of appointing an independent legal adviser is so minimal that it is definitely cheaper than the notary's fees or the estate agent's fees. They are also in a position to negotiate a reduction of the asking price if they feel that you are being ripped off, and this saving in itself is more than enough to cover their fees.

Our solicitors offer legal advice about the entire process, from start to finish, for a fixed fee (they also draft the contracts the power of attorneys liaise with the notaio and so on) and, in our case, we had to pull out of a previous purchase in Abruzzo before summer because we were not aware that the house which we had chosen was built illegally! The estate agent did not know anything about that and we were lucky that our lawyers found that our before signing the preliminary contract.

If you are buying in Abruzzo, in particular, listen to adriatica's word of wisdom: THERE ARE SO MANY COWBOYS AGENTS THERE THAT YOU [B]HAVE TO [/B]HIRE AN INDEPENDENT LAWYER!:D

Just to put the other point of view -

I bought my place using a Notary - No problems - all went smoothly

Thanks to all who've responded, the concensus seems to be use a lawyer!
However I'm curious as to why the comment to use a lawyer 'particularly in Abruzzo' - are there more cowboys there than elsewhere?! Any dodgy agents I should watch out for (best to send me a pm to answer this...)? I'm interested to hear any stories/experiences re the process in that area - specifically around Serramonacesca/ Manopello...
Many thanks, best wishes and happy Christmas everyone
Marco

I don't think that Abruzzo has more cowboy agents than anywhere else in Italy. We are buying in Puglia and there are just as many cowboys down there too.
What you have to think about is your own understanding of Italian property purchase and if you can speak Italian. The trouble is if you don't do either then there are many agents out there that will take advantage of the situation and pull the wool over your eyes and will do as little as possible to ensure your sale goes through safely because all they want is your money. They will tell you that everything is fine, no problem but check and double check. They don't like it if you start asking questions unless of course they are genuine. The Notary also varies some very good some not so good and will just go by the infomation provided by the agent.

If you know what your doing, the property is not a complicated buy or you can trust your agent completley than Notary alone but otherwise you need a lawyer. One that has been recomended cos they could be dodgy too or charge you the earth like some of the big international ones.

basically i menioned the difficulties in abruzzo because have heard a lot of stories since living here and that is where you are buying.... however i agree with the previous comments...its necessary to beware or aware wherever you choose to buy.... and as usual there are good and bad.... a notry does not work for you or in your interest alone...nor does the agent.... and believe me i have seen some astounding bills for italian lawyers operating in italy... what i like about the sound of the alternative...ie italian law firms that opearte from the uk and have been reccomended by members of the forum that it is a fixed fee...uk regulated contract you sign with them...

... despite casual put downs about the operating practices here and some of the problems that arise.... for someone from outside to come and buy here safely...in respect of knowing they are paying the right amount and that the property is secure can be difficult.... there is a systematic and often used method of agreeing that everything is fine for you the buyer...backed up by agents...geometras.. architects.. builders ... notaries and even local politicians.... all of these will earn substantial sums from house deals over a year.... from often un aware buyers who do not realise the depths of collusion that exist here and are often not exactly correctley informed of the contracts that when signed involve no protection for them and indeed often contain penalties if the contracts are not honoured....

so its a real minefield... and you will be at the receiving end of promises that all things are poss at hardly any cost...eg renovation projects which suddenly when you have bought the property triple in price.... or incorrect information to all you diy experts...you can do most of the work yourself.... not very likely here.... there are rules upon rules... and then more rules... and you will sometimes find yourself at the wrong end of fines for doing things you didnt know you shouldnt have done...

... so for most buying a property here is a huge investment....it seems to me to be best at the very start to make sure you have got things right...

... after all that i also bought my property without anyone beyond a notary and an agent.... i have the advantage of an italian wife and a father in law who is a geometra.... and i know others here that have also bought quite happily with an agent and notary... but thats always been with small local agencies... or some of the better known italian national agencies... and from that i re iterate that not all agents or notaries are without scruples... but until you live here how can you know who is or isnt...

Exactly!
Its just not worth risking your hard earned cash or giving yourself a minefield of problems to resolve in the future. Talk to Charles, he is totally honest and can be trusted completely.

Good luck, it will be worth it in the end!

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]Exactly!
Its just not worth risking your hard earned cash or giving yourself a minefield of problems to resolve in the future. Talk to Charles, he is totally honest and can be trusted completely.

Good luck, it will be worth it in the end![/QUOTE]

I agree to everyhing that has been said so far; consensus is generally versus hiring a lawyer, because at least you know that they are regulated by the law society (whether Italian or English) and they are independent from the vendor and the estate agent, therefore they ONLY look after your interest. When we first obtain quotes about Italian/international property lawyers, prices seemed to vary considerably: an Italian lawyer near Pescara asked for €4,500 just to review the preliminary contract, then we contacted various italian lawyers in the UK and their services varied from fixed fee of 1% of the purchase price for a basic service (read the compromesso and translate it) to a fixed fee (usually between £1.500 and £2000, depending on the value of the house) for the complete conveyancing transaction, from negotiating the price till you get the keys to the house: clearly, we chose the last ones, also because they were highly recommended by other users in the forum.

The question should not be "lawyer vs notary" because any buyer has to have a notary in any event, this is the law in Italy: the question should be "what advantages do I get from hiring a lawyer alongside the notaio?" and the answer is simple (as TMF said): if you know what you are doing and speak Italian, then go solo, otherwise it is worth spending the extra bit of money to ensure that you are not being ripped off.

Finally, it seems as if all the efforts put in by Charles J about being cautious, be wary of cowboys, seeking independent legal advice and so on is now paying back!
:)

buon natalle to everyone