2225 Notary Valuations of Property

[QUOTE=Moffy]We are in the process of buying a small property in Puglia, due to complete in a couple of weeks. I have seen much on this website to do with underdeclaring prices, but does anyone have any experience of a Notary placing a higher value on a property than what you are paying for it, therefore, you pay much higher on the 10% tax? Appreciate any advice.

Jo[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're meaning.
Anyway, all the underdeclaing problem is over.
starting from the next year, the purchases taxes are payed on the cadastrial value (valore catastale) only, even if the declared price is higher.
[B]I.e.:[/B]
price declared [B]€. 200.000[/B]
valore catastale [B]€. 50.000[/B]
taxes (10%) [B]€. 5.000[/B], while today it should be [B]€. 20.000[/B]

This is only for houses and garages which are not sold by entrepreuners.
So for plots of land and other kind of buildings nothing is changed.

Hi Notaio

Thanks for your reply. I will try to give more detail.

We are buying the small villa for 35,000 euros.

The Notary has quoted 9,100 euros for the 10% non residency tax and his fees.

It breaksdown like this: The notary says the property is category A7 and has a value for tax purposes of 65,000 euros, therefore we have to pay 6500 euros 10% tax and the additional 2600 euro's is his fee!

Although we still only pay 35,000 euros for the villa which is its value.

We are very confused and wonder if this is normal and we just haven't come across it so far.

Many thanks.

Jo

It's a very modest little villa that needs some tlc, near to San Vito. The A7 category I don't understand either, something to do with how they rate a property for tax purposes. Which is why we wondered if this is normal and we are just being paranoid. Although thought the notary fees of 2600 euros itself seemed steep.

Jo

[QUOTE=Moffy]Hi Notaio

Thanks for your reply. I will try to give more detail.

We are buying the small villa for 35,000 euros.

The Notary has quoted 9,100 euros for the 10% non residency tax and his fees.

It breaksdown like this: The notary says the property is category A7 and has a value for tax purposes of 65,000 euros, therefore we have to pay 6500 euros 10% tax and the additional 2600 euro's is his fee!

Although we still only pay 35,000 euros for the villa which is its value.

We are very confused and wonder if this is normal and we just haven't come across it so far.

Many thanks.

Jo[/QUOTE]

So, if I understand correctly, you're buying a villa that has a price (€. 35.000) lower than its valore catastale (€. 65.000): even if rarely, this happens sometime.
[B]May be[/B] the notary suggested you to declare an higher price in order to avoid prblems with the tax office (ufficio del registro).
I try to explain you how it works:
under the rules that are now partially going to change, the tax office is allowed to verify the price you declared and can ask you to pay the difference between the declared price and the real "discovered" price, BUT if you declared a price higher of the valore catastale, the tax office is not allowed to verify the price and MUST accept it.
I think that this [B][U]might[/U][/B] be the reason why the notary suggested you to overdeclare: in this way you do not need to persuade the ufficio del registro that you really payed a lower price, which is something hard to do.

Here, with such kind of situation, with a high difference between valore catastale and real price, we follow a different strategy.
The buyer gives to notary a survey, normally made by a geometra, where the technician certifies and swears the real (lower) value, the notary gives the survey to the ufficio registro when he pays the puchases taxes and usualli the office accepts it and no controls are made.
The survey normally costs about €. 600,00 and so it's opportune to follow this way when the avoided tax is higher.

About notary's fee.
First of all consider taxes.
There isn't only the 10% for ufficio registro.
there are other minor taxes too (stamps etc) for a total of about €. 400/500 plus IVA (VAT).

Anyway, even considering these minor taxes, it seems to me that the fee is still high.
I suggest you to ask the notary where this fee comes form, if it is consistent with the fee fixed by the local "Consiglio Notarile" and, if there is a difference, he should explain why there's the difference.
I also suggest you to ask to the consiglio notarile how much it would be the fee for a purchase with a price of €. 35.000: this is an answer they MUST give you.

A7 = abitazione in villini...ie a small villa all dwellings/buildings have a designation.....

i had thought that maybe the building was something that should have been grander.... i seem to remember reading somewhere that if you build on a plot which should have had a large dwelling on ...ie the building consent was for a much larger area than the building that has been constructed .... that the valuation could be higher.... but if it is declared at A7 then that is a small villa....

the other thing might be whoever built it has run out of money...and needs to pay it off quickly.... or indeed that it has already been confiscated and is being sold to pay debts....

surely the agent will be able to help you on this question.... if not ... i would suggest because the situation is abnormal that you contact the uk solicitors mentioned in various legal threads.... and get them to run the checks for you

as to notary fees they seem to differ from area to area.... and also seem to depend upon the complexity of the sale.... i have known people pay notaries 3000 euro as a fee and others 1500 for properties of the same value....when you ask why the answer is that it was a more difficult and complex sale....

..... i still find the notarial system strange.... and suggest either the use of the uk solicitors to guarantee you are not overcharged or if you want to forget their help.... getting a quote from two or three different notaries... in reallity i think the former option is the better one...

as regards taxs these are based on catastal values .... ie on the 50,000 euro

however its ok asking questions here...but all the advice you receive are opinions only.... and maybe can be used as a form of guidance... the problem is that there are mountains of documents associated with any property here.... you obviously cannot submit them all for scrutiny.... so no definitive answer can be made.... unless these have all been read...

sorry not to be able to give you a clearer response....

[quote=notaio]I'm afraid I don't understand what you're meaning.
Anyway, all the underdeclaing problem is over.
starting from the next year, the purchases taxes are payed on the cadastrial value (valore catastale) only, even if the declared price is higher.
[B]I.e.:[/B]
price declared [B]€. 200.000[/B]
valore catastale [B]€. 50.000[/B]
taxes (10%) [B]€. 5.000[/B], while today it should be [B]€. 20.000[/B]

This is only for houses and garages which are not sold by entrepreuners.
So for plots of land and other kind of buildings nothing is changed.[/quote]

You say this applies to houses and garages so does this apply to Fabbricato Rurale or does this come under land and other kind of building? What does Semin Arbor mean?

[QUOTE=Aliena]...how much would someone have to pay in TOTAL to buy this house including all taxes and fees for EVERYTHING.. Can you give the totals for RESIDENT and also for NON RESIDENT please..[/QUOTE]

There's an online calculator on my web site that you can use to get a reasonably accurate answer to this question, Aliena....
[URL]http://www.itili.com/calculator.htm[/URL]

Hope this helps.

As you'll see, agents fees are subject to IVA (=VAT), which bumps them up by a further 20%.