2296 useless facts

[QUOTE=adriatica]over the holiday ... 80 million bottles of spumanti and a hundred million of those pandoro type cakes... were drunk or eaten... doctors are reccomending people go onto a fruit and veg diet....

of all the pasta bought... several million tons 40 per cent is binned...the fish about 30 per cent.... how do they work out these things[/QUOTE]

No offence intended John but I was reading another posting of yours (below) on a different thread and couldn't help wondering how the above fits into the category of what's acceptable for this forum as outlined in detail by yourself :confused:

no offence meant to george...but a recent thread started has very little to do with general chat about italy and very much to do with chat.... and as it now seems to be turning into rubbish about race and religion.... i would suggest a chat room would be the best place to throw it....

i think ronald did his best with alienas home page...but no one that likes to get upset about others opinions here seemed to bother... or people deciding to use it as a private address book

at the risk of upsetting half the forum who have a holiday home in puglia...things like compiling a list of puglian or apulian members could well be regarded as something that might well be consigned off to a chat room.... does anyone else get fed up opening posts with names and numbers .... and wondering what on earth they learn from it.... i have a fear that once i get to the 750 th name maybe i will have decided that this forum is not very interesting after all.... unless you happen to be waiting to get on the list...

as has been rightly pointed out there are 1500 members now ... and i often see heaps of non members listed as viewing.... remember that if the place turns into some sort of private club with no interest for the magasine owners to keep running it then maybe it will all stop....

so if you want to have private discussions...set up little england groups ...then vote for a chat room...if you want to tell people what the food is like ...why you chose italy...what life is like here in italy...your experiences of the place...comments on italian life...even italian religion health corruption or crime.... of the wonderful agriturismo next door to you ...or the best beach...or the worst in your area thats about italy.... and it seems to me thats of interest to those viewing this forum...if you can help others that are just starting and need to catch up on the knowledge you have gained thats of interest...if your a proffesional that knows all things thats a help... or have bought a house and are having no probs or lots of them... it all helps... but parties and webcams... i think are prime chat room subjects... and thats about it....
__________________
john in abruzzo

susan p.... this is italian news... and also gives a fair example of what is part of the festive traditions of xmas and new year.... ie you should drink at least one and a half bottles per person of italian bubbly wine and consume two of those large cakes....

before christmas day you should have bought large stocks of pasta and fresh fish sea food.... and if you invite anyone italian for dinner you should cook twice as much as you think they will consume....

after the 6th...anyone you invite should be faced with a light meal of healthy food.... as everyone here is now in the recovery stage

even useless facts have a certain use... it can teach you a lot about how to fit in here .... their traditions....

now if i had posted on turkey and cranberry source...even port and stilton ...that would have deserved your comment.... well more so anyway... of little or no general interest to most of italy or italian life is i am sorry to say georges dogs...this is of interest to georges friends...he has a lot.... i apreciate his posts on life in italy..... but ronald set up a private area for forum members to have chatty postings .... and its not that i think the post should not be made.... its just that its chit chat ...which seems to have also degenerated into a sort of race war....

i feel that george when seeing what his originally inoffensive and quite friendly post has turned into might well think ...why did i bother...

however its a discussion forum.... and what i posted is open to discussion as is anything on here... so i dont expect all to agree or even anyone to stop compiling lists.... its only my opinion... and god help me now ... anything i write will have to be defended i guess

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]John…[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I can see your point, but think that where GeorgeS’s posting should go on this occasion is irrelevant. The point is that he has returned to Forum![/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]You must be getting a little over-sensitive in your old age! You should expect to be challenged, albeit in a positive and constructive manner. With the exception of adding a bit of humour, it would be nice to see more of the open and incisive debate on matters pertaining to contemporary Italy. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Apart from the fact that such “useless facts” serve a purpose in that they can provide some insight into traditions etc, I think the underlying message is that Christmas seems to be associated with more and more excesses. A huge amount of consumer waste is generated during the festive season.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Perhaps the question should really be: what are Italians doing to address the problem?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[COLOR=black]Have moved our chit chat to this thread as it appears more relevant:[/COLOR]
[quote=trullomartinafranca]
Oh by the way, don't get so wound up about Puglia lists and web cams we have to except that we are not all interested in the same things. Like I have to except you like to talk about things in great detail and depth and the Puglia list is no different than stribs's list for Abruzzo, just helps those in a perticular area. Yes chit chat that goes on and on can be anoying, as are disputes but hey, we can take it or leave it. Thats the conclusion I have come to now, take the good with the bad, bit like buying a Trullo in Italy! [/quote]
[quote=adriatica]trullo[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]never bother getting wound up... just like to argue.... unfair on stribs.. i think...he seems to be managing his list in a slightly more discreet way.... and i despite not joining his list think it is of help when buying a house here in italy that you might have someone that knows the ropes living closeby... try searching on puglia now though and the first ten million posts hold lists of names and numbers.... and chit chat is fine...in fact thats what this is... but there is a conversation area for members that few seem to post in when they do want to have a chit chat...... friendly banter and adjournments to posts make the place friendly in general... but you know me and puglia[/quote][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Yes, you like to argue but mostly the same point just taken to the extreme. I'm not being unfair to strbs at all I think he's doing a grand job and I like to see who's going or living around Italy. As for discreet well, not sure what you mean, the number of people buying in Puglia is growing, was predicted to do so years ago, so therefore higher percentage on the forum = more posts on the subject. Paula's list is a list nothing more. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]As for people posting the correct things in the correct place it will always go to pot because new peeps are still finding there way around forum, people see something and just reply on the spur of the moment without much thought into where it should go or how relevant, some just like to post for the sake of posting, some are gobby and have too much to say and the search facility is hard going! You will never tame this forum to being just what you want it to be because people are diverse. No I don't know you and Puglia....I have asked you before....so what does this mean.....that I was right you are anti??? [/COLOR]

trullo not anti puglia.... not anti anything much apart from established religions and extreme politics...

i sort of got on the puglia thing because i dont regard buying in an area because of price differences ... ie its cheaper because no one knows it.... as a sufficient reason... and when you look behind the truth of the price differences there are often significant and varied reasons...

in an attempt to point these out... it became a matter of opinion that i was anti puglia...

great campaigns started even newspapers brought in and phantom new members...

now in what i would call value terms ... trulli...is that the plural ... are very overpriced and once you start looking at the actual accomodation they provide...very low sq metereage... they also come along with several problems... extremely hard to keep warm... damp ... and as they become more recognised as part of the heritage of the region and laws come into place protecting them very expensive to maintain.... so thats one example of why i think falling in love with a pointed building and buying one is not always the soundest way of investing....

the other point is the weather... often people think southern europe is warm inthe winter... it applies in spain...but not in italy... and puglia is cold and wet... in the winter... so i was in effect saying that the region has its very own microclimate ... because of the two areas of sea...and its prevalent weather coming from te east during the colder months dont expect southern clime temps there...

further to that and what seems to have upset the most is the reference to the mafia... its a fact for the whole of southern italy and effects apart from the joking everyones life in terms of public funding that wanders astray... it does not mean everyone is a criminal in the south but it does mean for every euro invested between 50 and 75 percent will not arrive at its destination.... this effects schools and hospitals ,roads and rail... airports and jobs... and depending on the area of the south you choose more or less... it happens all over italy but the percentages skimmed drops off... outside the southern area

so when i see lots of people saying move here because its great... its not that i want to disabuse anyone of their right of choice...its just that choice should be allowed... so if i say thats wrong and you say thats right then anyone reading it then has a bit more info and is actually making a much more informed choice... which is all that its about ... personal opinions ... facts and research... local knowledge... it can all come together here ...without bothering to shout or get upset ...and anyone reading a thread which contains pros and cons... and all the elements of the above can then choose...... maybe a bit more wisely... that puglia is where they want to buy

[QUOTE=adriatica]i feel that george when seeing what his originally inoffensive and quite friendly post has turned into might well think ...why did i bother...

Another good point John, and well made, Hmmmm, why did I bother :confused:

Ohh sorry, forgot, ref. the statistics, it has been estimated that 93.776% of all statistics are made up on the spot. (better add another .001% to allow for this estimate ;) )

John, The thread with my list is entitled [B][I]PUGLIA POSSE[/I][/B] so that should have given you a vague insight into the nature of its contents and the members it's aimed at. ;) knowing your valued opinion of the region I am surprised you even took time to scan through its contents. Seeing that the area I have decided to invest my hard earned cash seems to be very very popular I was interested to establish roughthy how many of the forum members had done the same. Now you might find the list boring (then like I said the thread was called Puglia Posse) so you need not had even bothered to read, and had quite a few PM's to say thanks for included me and remembeing we are here and how things for them are progressing (some who have not had input for some time.............;) so if there was a little smilie that blew a rasberry I would have chosen it here, (childish I know but that's my mood for today:p )

[QUOTE=Aliena]If 93.777% (inclusive) of statistics are made up on the spot.. where are the other 2.333% made up?

This could be interesting..

:) :)[/QUOTE]
Somerset.........

[COLOR=black][quote=adriatica]trullo not anti [/COLOR][COLOR=black]puglia[/COLOR][COLOR=black].... not anti anything much apart from established religions and extreme politics... [I]and crulity and toxic waste and the mafia, all quite rightly so but you are also anti Puglia because of the many reasons you have given that you personally would not want to buy in the region. Anti meaning: against or not in favour of.[/I][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]i sort of got on the puglia thing because i dont regard buying in an area because of price differences ... ie its cheaper because no one knows it.... as a sufficient reason... and when you look behind the truth of the price differences there are often significant and varied reasons... [I]Did anyone dispute this point? Some people looking for a place in the sun will be attracted to cheaper areas and will weigh up the pros and cons of why it is cheaper. The fact is the area is a good investment because prices have increased enormously. Can not predict the future trend but no one is likely to make a loss even if they don’t make big bucks. For many they are buying in the area purely because it is an area in [/I][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black]Italy[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black] that they like and can afford. [/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]in an attempt to point these out... it became a matter of opinion that i was anti [/COLOR][COLOR=black]puglia[/COLOR][COLOR=black]... [I]you are, as my reasons given above state, but does it really matter, I'm anti any big city.[/I][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]great campaigns started even newspapers brought in and phantom new members... [I]It was all a bit of fun in my opinion. [/I][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]now in what i would call value terms ... trulli...is that the plural ... are very overpriced and once you start looking at the actual accomodation they provide...very low sq metereage... they also come along with several problems... extremely hard to keep warm... damp ... and as they become more recognised as part of the heritage of the region and laws come into place protecting them very expensive to maintain.... so thats one example of why i think falling in love with a pointed building and buying one is not always the soundest way of investing....[I]Yes Trulli (the plural) are over priced for the living area, depending on what size Trulli of course, but so are period properties in England you pay for the beams, ingle nook fireplace etc. The same for a Trullo you pay for what you want, like. Its good that laws will protect trulli or they would be lost and who ever buys one should take this into consideration, the same as buying a listed building in [/I][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black]England[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]. As for Trulli being cold and damp, this would depend very much on the circumstances of the property, quality of renovation and what it’s being used for. We stayed in a little Trullo and because there where no modern additions and a small area to heat it didn’t take long for the fire alone to make it warm. In a good renovation once the walls have heated up and top up heat continues they do retain the heat, as long as there are no drafts. You pays ya money and takes your choice. So I agree a Trullo may not be as cheap as people think but for me that was one of the main reasons for buying in [/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]Puglia[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black], I wanted a Trullo and they don’t have them elsewhere. For us it is of little worry because ours will be no more than a summer retreat. If one day we moved permanently then maybe a nice shiny diamond encrusted villa could be the answer, I think Aliena has one but on the other hand I could invest more money in a property that I really like and has character.[/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]the other point is the weather... often people think southern europe is warm inthe winter... it applies in spain...but not in italy... and puglia is cold and wet... in the winter... so i was in effect saying that the region has its very own microclimate ... because of the two areas of sea...and its prevalent weather coming from te east during the colder months dont expect southern clime temps there... [I]Never thought for one min that [/I][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black]Puglia[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black] didn’t get cold winters BUT they do not last as long as [/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]England[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]. 8-9 months of temperatures above 10c in [/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]Puglia[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black] compared to 4-5 in [/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]England[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black], 2004 data. [/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]further to that and what seems to have upset the most is the reference to the mafia... its a fact for the whole of southern italy and effects apart from the joking everyones life in terms of public funding that wanders astray... it does not mean everyone is a criminal in the south but it does mean for every euro invested between 50 and 75 percent will not arrive at its destination.... this effects schools and hospitals ,roads and rail... airports and jobs... and depending on the area of the south you choose more or less... it happens all over italy but the percentages skimmed drops off... outside the southern area. [I]So are you saying that we should not invest in the area because it will be an economic disadvantage to [/I][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black]Italy[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]?[/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]so when i see lots of people saying move here because its great... its not that i want to disabuse anyone of their right of choice...its just that choice should be allowed... so if i say thats wrong and you say thats right then anyone reading it then has a bit more info and is actually making a much more informed choice... which is all that its about ... personal opinions ... facts and research... local knowledge... it can all come together here ...without bothering to shout or get upset ...and anyone reading a thread which contains pros and cons... and all the elements of the above can then choose...... maybe a bit more wisely... that [/COLOR][COLOR=black]puglia[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is where they want to buy.
[I]yes yes yes, you have explained this all before and I don't disagree, I'm positivley in favore of giving people choice but you said "you know me and Puglia"......I'm saying, that you are not too keen on the place or the fact that the forum has been over run with Puglia people.......is that not being a little anti? Sorry about that but I still appriciate you help with info.[/I];)

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"]Reading this thread has given me a headache but hey in a few weeks time I could have something much worse if this 'Turkey Bird flu' turns nasty..how's that for an irrelavant comment?Sorry.

Back to the thread and John's posting. I am always very interested to find out anything at alll about italy..Although I admit that speed cameras and sport leave me cold.I would love to hear more particullary about activities that interest people living in Italy.Do they take part in volunteering or join in local clubs sociteies.All that stuff!

If it gets a bit juvenile just leave that thread and look elsewhere.No need to moan!Theres room for all types of nutters here!

Becky[/SIZE][/FONT]

trullo ... i almost surrender....

but then again i think that saying the other side of things does not make me anti ...either against or not in favor of anyone buying in puglia... the same as when i say the western side of the mountains in abruzzo is a place only for eskimos... the aquila region... no estate agent will tell you this or even anyone that lives there... but it is an abnormally cold area of central italy.. so in my opinion it does not make me anti aquila... just someone that does not like cold.... and no everyone should not stop buying there but when they do take into account that their heating bills will be higher than the norm here.... and that a cheap house without heat or double glazing...even in the shorter winters will not be habitable....

so say if i was to ask alex and lyn.... did you expect to use so much heating...for it to cost so much... they most probably have not read the metre yet and had the bill... but it will be a lot... and that there would be quite as many wet days ... they might well say no... maybe yes... but i sort of trust them to give an honest answer...

i regret the you know me and puglia ....comment... if that is your main concern... it was an off the cuff comment .. a phsycoanalalyst might well look for some freudian cause to it....

however i do not feel the forum is overun by people from puglia... as far as i am aware only the notary and mr joseph can claim this ancestory... may well be others... and puglia as a holiday destination is one of the best areas and most popular in italy... and it does have the funny shaped houses.. and i will admit i like your garden..from the picture... and i did also enjoy the phantom member episode and regret the end without anyone winning the prize... the thing is in all truth is that i like to argue ...and puglia just happened along.... and i promise that if someone from abruzzo was posting threads of names and numbers... i would have made the same comment...
anyway... i enjoyed your thoughts...

Pauline ... i am willing to take the raspberries on the chin .... i will make a new years late resolution to try and be more tolerant and understanding and hopefully your day will improve

Yes I do agree with John ..:eek: .....and I complained quite loudly back in the Autumn about how cold it was and how early we had to put the heating on ...and yes it is VERY expensive. All things we hadn't realised before we came here.
I don't think I have ever said any different BUT what I do say is that today we spent about 4 hours gardening with pleasant sunshine, beautiful blue skies and a gentle breeze....something we couldn't have done in England....we also had a tremor ..but that story is on another thread !!!!!!!
And I continue to say..this is the best thing we ever did...there have been surprises both pleasant and not so pleasant but the good stuff far outweighs the bad...in our opinion .....:)
Now....... Happy New Year to One and All ..no matter where you are in Italy or are intending to buy ....and I like the suggestion about hearing more about peoples day to day lives here. :cool:

Jack in Abruzo, the names PAULA not Pauline ;) Anybody think of another list I can do..........:eek: Me thinks if all the Puglia Posse abscond to a Puglia forum there would be little activity here.

[quote=adriatica]trullo ... i almost surrender.... [/quote]

Nah, couldn't if you tried. You're contrary, even when I agree with you, you take it to another level but you were begining to flag on the last paragraph. Glad you like the pile of rubble in the garden but then as you say as it's registered it's got potential and one day may compliment our Trullo which is very warm and snug inside.(I'm sure you still think it's a funny shaped pile of rubble :D I take it you never liked oasthouses either)

trulli fabulous ;)

Thanks Paula, we think so. God, hope this is not tempting fate putting pics on forum :eek: Just 14 days to go to complete! Only taken 9 months and 22 days, not long really :D

Aliena, As long as you said Igloo and not loo thats fine ;)

We've rented apartment's in Ostuni with the same domed ceilings and shops and restaurants are the same. Absolutely wonderful and never been to a place like it in all my life and I've been to a different country for the last 20 years. Must say 9 months is a hell of a long time but so long as the paperwork is correct that's the main thing

adriatica.. as you are one of a few who is both articulate and very well informed, please, never surrender.if i want to here jokes and witt, i will watch
the tv. if on the otherhand i want to here and know what is happening in
italy, i will look forward to your post......

trullo.... i like your house.... see ... i ve agreed with you...and it didnt hurt a bit... best of luck with the completion...sure it will all be fine

Are you sure Adriatica, bet you were gritting your teeth as you typed ;)
Thanks for the wishes and info and no doubt we will find something else to discuss about Puglia again and again and again! :D

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]Nah, couldn't if you tried. You're contrary, even when I agree with you, you take it to another level but you were begining to flag on the last paragraph. Glad you like the pile of rubble in the garden but then as you say as it's registered it's got potential and one day may compliment our Trullo which is very warm and snug inside.(I'm sure you still think it's a funny shaped pile of rubble :D I take it you never liked oasthouses either)[/QUOTE]

looks like a cave...