In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=neilmcn].....predicted return on the UK property market would be over the next 10 years....[/QUOTE]
I seem to recall that the UK was about no. 14 but excluded from the figures for some reason.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=tuscanhills]I seem to recall that the UK was about no. 14 but excluded from the figures for some reason.[/QUOTE]
Probably because the program was with Amanda Lamb from A Place in the Sun who is described as a 'foreign' property expert and the UK has no sun??!
Anyway, there is a link to the relevant webpage here:
[url]http://www.channel4.com/4homes/ontv/place_in_the_sun/20_make_money.html[/url] on the UK's Channel 4 website.
I'll see you all in Portugal in 2016.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yep...also saw the programme but felt that it portrayed a very simplistic picture. A lot can happen in ten years as markets continuously change. In any case predictions of this sort are not a precise science.
Iterestingly, Finland was ranked 9th...but since it happens to be the most darkest and coldest country in Europe...would you really want to buy a property there Amanda? :rolleyes:
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I agree with Charles. I'm always really sceptical about people 'talking-up' the market, especially in places like Poland and Romania where property may be cheap, but who wants to live in a country where there is no reasonable chance of learning the language and the local culture has so little to offer?
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Marc]I agree with Charles. I'm always really sceptical about people 'talking-up' the market, especially in places like Poland and Romania where property may be cheap, but who wants to live in a country where there is no reasonable chance of learning the language and the local culture has so little to offer?[/QUOTE]
ooooh, don't tell us Chopin fans that...
...see down below in the Bitching Thread maybe...
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[QUOTE=Marc]who wants to live in a country where there is no reasonable chance of learning the language and the local culture has so little to offer?[/QUOTE]
Romanians find learning Italian to be very easy, so I would assume that learning the Romanian language is in fact no more difficult than learning Italian. Polish on the other hand is about as difficult as it gets.
Poland and Romania and the rest of Eastern Europe for that matter have plenty to offer culturally, the problem with Romania in particular is that the economy is so weak and the people are so desperate which leads to a pile of social problems. However, places such as the Little Ciclades in Greece were poverty stricken in the 70's with people close to starvation, and yet anyone buying land or property there at that time would have made their fortune. As a pure financial investment Romania has a lot of offer right now, but would you want to live there...?
Everyone planning to buy in Italy should spend a little bit more time getting to know the area in which they intend to live, learning the language, and getting to know local tradesmen. The hard cash that will save when it comes time to purchase and renovate the Italian property can then be used to buy a couple of Romanian country houses as a rainy day investment for around Euro 10-15k which in 10 years could well have increased in value by 1000% thanks to EU membership etc.
better off with EU membership
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 01/11/2006 - 06:40In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
In the past year I have had an Hungarian couple and a Slovakian couple working for me, and they all say the same thing; that since their coutries joined the EU, the living conditions in their country have got much worse.
In Slovakia (where my current people come from) having enough money left out of wages to buy food after the rent has been paid is a real struggle. Thats why they leave a place that they otherwise love to be able to save some money, and hopefully get jobs out of the factory when they go home.
I'm sure that there'll be lovely new roads etc., but otherwise things are dire.
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
[quote=neilmcn]Romanians find learning Italian to be very easy, so I would assume that learning the Romanian language is in fact no more difficult than learning Italian. Polish on the other hand is about as difficult as it gets.
Poland and Romania and the rest of Eastern Europe for that matter have plenty to offer culturally, the problem with Romania in particular is that the economy is so weak and the people are so desperate which leads to a pile of social problems. However, places such as the Little Ciclades in Greece were poverty stricken in the 70's with people close to starvation, and yet anyone buying land or property there at that time would have made their fortune. As a pure financial investment Romania has a lot of offer right now, but would you want to live there...?
Everyone planning to buy in Italy should spend a little bit more time getting to know the area in which they intend to live, learning the language, and getting to know local tradesmen. The hard cash that will save when it comes time to purchase and renovate the Italian property can then be used to buy a couple of Romanian country houses as a rainy day investment for around Euro 10-15k which in 10 years could well have increased in value by 1000% thanks to EU membership etc.[/quote]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I think that it goes without saying that the countries you mention have a rich cultural background, but in Marc’s defence, what we are dealing with, more importantly, is a legal culture and traditions which happen to be even more diverse than Italian.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Legal cultures are barely penetrable from the outside and this is one of the reasons why we run into difficulties, notwithstanding the language barriers that most people face.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]That said, I don’t believe that buyers of secondary homes select these countries for their culture. The relatively undiscovered areas of Eastern Europe and the Balkans are new territories, offering cheap properties but there are plenty of pitfalls, some of them with quite serious consequences. The other point is that since the local economy in many of these places is so poor, do you really expect to be able to sell your property to a local barely able to put food on the table, let alone buy your house for £300,000?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Moreover, some of the legislation in these countries, especially in former communist states, is in conflict with the rest of Europe and this is a problem that will not go away quickly. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The programme cited offered a far too simplistic view of the great yields expected. No mention of the risk or uncertainty involved. I know of a number of people who for example, were gearing themselves up for the SIPP’s and now are in a tight spot financially because they spent a lot of money in setting up structures to cope with the “gold rush” that never happened. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I suspect that the forecasts given by Amanda Lamb were extrapolated from mathematical regression models, but most of us who use such tools know better than to place all our trust in something that is not an exact science.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Interesting stats. Did you happen to hear what the predicted return on the UK property market would be over the next 10 years.
My calculations, based on the fact 199% return means a 100k house will be worth around 300k in 10 years time show that Italian property prices are predicted to grow by just over 11% per year (compound growth).
The reality of course is that there are many hidden (or overlooked) costs in buying and selling property in Italy and so assuming 20% costs at purchase and 10% at sale actual annual returns are only 9% - and that still does not take into account the costs of maintaining the property, taxes, utilities, and so on.
Therefore unless you intend to really use and enjoy your Italian property, do some serious renovations and improvements, and ideally rent the property out for long periods of time, purchasing a house in Italy as a medium to long term financial investment on the basis of the impressive headline 199% figure would perhaps not be very wise.