2142 A word of warning about credit card use for car hire.

Happened to us too. Apart from flights and car hire we don't use our credit care (oh and to order a back issue of Italy Mag) and back in August our card expenditure rose by an extra £450 which we knew was not our spend. When we looked at the details somebody had used our card to order £118 worth of goods at Tesco Home Shopping in Sheffield (we live near Manchester) and something from Australia to the value of £330. You can get software to stop people looking at your details on your computer and I think this is how its done, not somebody at Eurocar pinchin your details but there are computer buffs on the forum who will be able to clarify. We rang Barclaycard straight away who credited the amount to our statement and even sent out a revised statement almost immediately and a new card as the old one had to be cancelled.

Yes you may be right. I never considered that but thought it was strange that the unauthorised payment was to Europcar when it was them we used for the car hire.

[QUOTE=paula hampson]....You can get software to stop people looking at your details on your computer and I think this is how its done......[/QUOTE]

The credit cards are more likely to have been "skimmed" which means someone (who has hold of your credit card) copies the magnetic strip onto a blank card that they then use (or sell to others to use!) to buy Tescos Home shopping, things in Oz etc......

The software to stop fraudulent use of the card details is different and will stop programmes begin loaded onto your PC (either covertly or under the guise of being another programme) that loggs all your data & sends it "back to base" by someone who then interprests it to suss your bank details. This is called Spyware.

It's more likely the card was skimmed.
[list][*]Don't let the card out of your site (especially when it's usually taken away from you, like at a resturant)
[*]Keep on top of your bill (internet accounts are faster to access!)
[*]Report suspected misuse ASAP
[*]I get mine replaced by the issuing bank (I use [url]www.Smile.co.uk[/url]) every now & again as this will change the VALID TO date and so 're-baseline' your card if it has gone walkies![/list]

Happened to us in London. Once somebody charged £120 worth of goods to our credit card. Took a while to get a refund from the credit card company. Had to prove that the signature on the sales voucher was not authentic. Another time it was charges for mobile phones. This is popular in London, people search the dustbin for credit card and identity details and use them. They also hang around ATMs and get info to clone cards. Heard on the news yesterday that gangs are placing people in Call Centres where they are pulling the credit details of customers. We now shed all our unwanted receipts and waste paper with sensitive infomation and check our credit card and bank transactions regularly on the internet. We look for unsual transactions as banks make mistakes too. I am currently trying to get a council tax refund of £695.97 from Lambeth Borough. Our bank paid the Council £703 instead of £7.03p. The figures and the words on the cheque clearly matched. Although we will get our money back it is taking a while as the Council is not as prompt in making refunds as they are in taking you to court for non-payment of council tax. The Council will not talk to the bank: data protection and all that!! Another time the Water Authority took £500 out of our bank account instead of the £24, that I had agreed to. That time the bank got the money back as it was done through the Direct Debit system. Have not had any problems yet with credit card use in Italy. I think it is a matter of time!

Now that broadband is around and much more commonly used, people are leaving their computers on and permanently connected to the internet. We have been advised never to do this if the computer has been used for any banking/financial transactions. Don't know how true it is, don't really want to test it, but if the computer is left on, it can supposedly be hacked into and all your card details copied. As all the details will be exact it would be very difficult to prove it was not you and to get a refund from the card company.

Don't know about others but we found Barclaycard were excellent in our case and sent revised statements out immediately. We just had to sign a form to confirm we didn't purchase said items and the revised statement was sent straight back amended along with new cards...........very efficient we thought..

[QUOTE=anne2]Now that broadband is around and much more commonly used, people are leaving their computers on and permanently connected to the internet. We have been advised never to do this if the computer has been used for any banking/financial transactions. Don't know how true it is, don't really want to test it, but if the computer is left on, it can supposedly be hacked into and all your card details copied. As all the details will be exact it would be very difficult to prove it was not you and to get a refund from the card company.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's true. Hackers can get access to view everything you type on your screen at anytime through the spyware mentioned above. We always switch our PC off after use and when I check my bank statements etc online, I always make sure that I log off too! Many people forget to log off and this can be used as another way of getting into your details. The internet can be a very dodgy area when it comes to that.

As for ATMs - last year around this time, when I still lived in Cardiff (though could be anywhere ...), there were appeals on the local news to check ATM machines before using them to see if there are any fake parts attached to the card slot. I always use my purse to shield my hand when typing in my pin. This means that any tiny cameras attached to the machine above the slot can't give away my details either and prevents people looking over your shoulder spying.

Always be careful is my motto here - it's my hard-earned money after all & I don't want to make things easier for these 'people' (watching my language!) ...

Stephanie

I think this is quite common, We were in Rome in September once we got back home the credit card company called us to check if we were still in Italy as our card was being used, according to them Italy is one of the worst countries for this kind of thing to happen, dishonest staff taking the card details in restaurants etc.

One good thing to do is allways close that browser window you have used for banking and also immediately empty the 'cache' memory because there is everything you have done in the web, this especially when you continue working with your computer.

You can also adjust the Power Options to hibernate the computer and also hard disk after chosen period of not using the computer without actually shutting it down.

When I'm lazy I often just shut down the broadband modem.

My tried and trusted top tip for credit card fraud prevention... Have it max'd out at all times so no-one can use it, including yourself! :D

A gret too is [url=http://www.webroot.com/consumer/products/windowwasher/?rc=2180&ac=784&wt.srch=1&wt.mc_id=784]WINDOWS WASHER[/url]; it wipes all you cookies and other data that can be "useful" to others. It was also be run intermittantly to ensure (post internet banking) your system is clean (the only problem is that when cookies are wiped, you need to sign back in to websites, like this forum!)

I'd recommend that & [url=http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor]Spyware Doctor[/url] that ensures all spyware is blocked and your PC is scanned regularly. It costs as it downloads updates on new spyware.

Both are simple & effective.

[QUOTE=derekL]My tried and trusted top tip for credit card fraud prevention... Have it max'd out at all times so no-one can use it, including yourself! :D[/QUOTE]

LOL!! Sounds familiar... :D

Stephanie

I have now learned that what I thought was a theft of my credit card details is in fact Europcar attempting to charge me for existing damage to their car. They are trying to make me pay for a new windscreen to replace the already damaged one which was also clearly noted on the check out part of the rental agreement.

I have managed to get the money back via my credit card company but Europcar have written to me to say they want the payment returned and will charge my card again. Needless to say I will not be paying and have taken steps to close the credit card account to be on the safe side.

Watch this space for further developments.

[QUOTE=Flyingveepixie]I have now learned that what I thought was a theft of my credit card details is in fact Europcar attempting to charge me for existing damage to their car. They are trying to make me pay for a new windscreen to replace the already damaged one which was also clearly noted on the check out part of the rental agreement.

I have managed to get the money back via my credit card company but Europcar have written to me to say they want the payment returned and will charge my card again. Needless to say I will not be paying and have taken steps to close the credit card account to be on the safe side.

Watch this space for further developments.[/QUOTE]

I thought they could only charge you if they came out and checked the car when you returned it and damaged was spotted then?! Otherwise damage can occur to the car in the carpark after you have returned it.

I never pay the "Super Collision Damage Waiver" that they try and sell you when you hire a care. Instead I've got this: [url]http://insurance4carhire.com/[/url] - At a little over £50 for a year, it covers any excess that a car hire company may try and charge you. Defintely worth it if you are hiring a car several times a year in Europe. :D

[quote=Ric]I thought they could only charge you if they came out and checked the car when you returned it and damaged was spotted then?! Otherwise damage can occur to the car in the carpark after you have returned it.

I never pay the "Super Collision Damage Waiver" that they try and sell you when you hire a care. Instead I've got this: [URL="http://insurance4carhire.com/"]http://insurance4carhire.com/[/URL] - At a little over £50 for a year, it covers any excess that a car hire company may try and charge you. Defintely worth it if you are hiring a car several times a year in Europe. :D[/quote]

Ric, Sounds good but have you or anyone you know of had to use the policy in anger? How did that work out?

What do you mean in anger?

Just before we moved out here we had a nightmare in Kettering with my bank card .

went to draw some money and machine told me i didn't have any !!!! loads in there !!!

Fortunately this was my own Halifax account not our main joint account.

It would seems , someone had followed me to the cash point and 'cloned' my card and then systematically withdrawn everthing in there over about a week...including my overdraft facility !!!!

Was not too impressed with the Halifax attitude as I had to actually go to the Police and make a statement that I was not in London when the withdrawals were made . They did refund me but it took about a month for it to come thru while they investigated.

3 weeks later , my son had the same problem..........but with HSBC who immediateley refunded him.

Oh Please stop knocking Italy all the time ...it is sooo tiresome....and frankly getting oh so boring now.

all this crap is going on everywhere.

Not sure anyone was knocking Italy it was Europcar or have I missed something? :confused:

credit card theft goes on everywhere -even in my backwater town near Cambridge - It is no different in Italy - as for Rome the papers report that new immigrants ,particularly the Romanians, are responsible for fleecing everyone - particularly Italians with a bit of cash. Really we all have to be carefull with our bits of plastic -as for car hire, we have never had a problem with Europcar in Ciampino but it's right to check your bills and complain- don't accept anything you're not happy with. Last time I left a hire car at Ciampino the hire car park was full so I abandoned it at the entrance to the car park and hubbie jogged over to arrivals to tell them where the car was.They were happy with that. Have also picked up cars in various states of disrepair - just remember the Italian way is to argue after the problem arises (ie if we got a bill for the repair which wasn't our fault) rather than to sort it out before the situation could arise.We were once charged for a full tank of petrol by Avis when I had gone hell for leather to fill the car up - bit of arguing and posturing and bill was cancelled.

[quote=trullomartinafranca]What do you mean in anger?[/quote]

Actually had to use the policy to claim - nothing offensive:o

[QUOTE=DaveJ]Actually had to use the policy to claim - nothing offensive:o[/QUOTE]

No, I've never been angry enough to use it. :D

Actually, no one has ever come out with me to check a car when I've returned it.

A couple of months ago my husband recieved a letter from one of the credit card companys, " with regret we cannot cash your cheque for the sum of £8.000 as you would be over your limit" We were horrified:eek: some wonderful person had got hold of a credit card cheque that these credit card companys send out to their customers for balance transfers,or to use for what ever, you know the ones i mean forever comming through the post,talk about shock, just as well my husband had used some credit on this card, otherwise they would have cashed it automatically, the credit card company no longer send us cheques now since this has happened we requested them not too.

I get credit card cheques through the door every other day and they go straight in to the shredder.

Talking of credit card companies......Last time I was in Italy I had to buy a new Sofa as a rat ate my old one (shut up laughing Di !!) and when I tried to pay for it with my credit card the machine spat it out in disgust so I had to use my Halifax current account card.

The reason my credit card was refused was that I hadn't told the card issuer that I would be out of the country for a few days and their policy in such cases is to automatically refuse any attempted use.

The result was that my halifax card was overdrawn illegally and I ended up paying £70 in charges which they refused to waive when I tried to explain the situation to them, and the credit card company also told me to get lost when I challenged them about it.

I threatened to close the credit card account because of their big brother attitude and they told me to go ahead so I did. The halifax also told me the same in spite of my having had an account with them for 15 years. Their zombie in the branch actually said to me that 'loyalty counts for nothing'

So there you go........they're all just after your cash, be it Credit card companies, banks, car hire companies or whatever.

And Lyn, you are of course correct, this kind of rip off crap happens everywhere and not just in Italy........probably more so in the UK I reckon.

[quote=Flyingveepixie]I threatened to close the credit card account because of their big brother attitude and they told me to go ahead so I did. The halifax also told me the same in spite of my having had an account with them for 15 years. Their zombie in the branch actually said to me that 'loyalty counts for nothing'[/quote]

I could tell you some real horror stories involving the Halifax. I want to throw up every time I see their ads on TV.
Hope you close your account with them too!

I was refused a morgage years ago with the Halifax because my credit history said I still owed £132 to an old calalogue, eventually got a letter from catalogue saying my account was clear but went elsewhere and stuck an imaginary two fingers up at the Halifax. :mad:

Yes, I did that to the Halifax too! Had been saving with them since 16, then when I was older and wanted a mortgage they wouldn't give me one! Got one with Nationwide no problem.

I have now received 2 letters from Intrum Justitia threatening me with legal action if I don't pay for the damages europcar say I did to their car. This is in spite of the damage being clearly noted on the rental agreement when the car was issued to me. I have responded to Intrum Justitia and sent them a copy of the rental agreement but it either hasn't arrived or they have chosen to ignore it and have now sent the second letter with the threat of further action if I don't pay.

Does anyone have any ideas how I should now proceed? Should I get a solicitor involved perhaps?

[QUOTE=Flyingveepixie]....but it either hasn't arrived or they have chosen to ignore it and have now sent the second letter with the threat of further action if I don't pay.[/QUOTE]

The first step is to resend this information by Recorded Delivery. You need proof that they have received it. This will put you in an advantageous position if they take things further.

[QUOTE=Ric]The first step is to resend this information by Recorded Delivery. You need proof that they have received it. This will put you in an advantageous position if they take things further.[/QUOTE]

Last time I tried to send anything that was important to Italy [papers to Geometra] I asked the UK Post Office about recorded delivery - they said it couldn't be done to Italy.

They offered a type of delivery they said could be tracked and required signing for on delivery, [forgotten the name], but forgot to tell me you can only track it in the UK.

S0, later when I asked whether it had arrived at the delivery address, they told me that they could confirm that "it left Heathrow for Rome the day I posted it, but after that they had no idea!" Apparently they had no way of even finding out if it had been signed for.

Luckily, it was delivered safely

[quote=Flyingveepixie]Last time I was in Italy I had to buy a new Sofa as a rat ate my old one (shut up laughing Di !!) and when I tried to pay for it with my credit card the machine spat it out in disgust so I had to use my Halifax current account card. [/quote]

[LEFT]Don't worry Kenny, now that we own our own Trullo and the Topo took over our Cuccina we are jeleaous that we had to completely re-do the Cuccina, get new fridge freeze and everything! not just a sofa!
But thanks to your info at the time we knew how and where to get mouse killer stuff!!:eek: [/LEFT]

I have 2 credit cards, one English and one Italian.
I was last in England the day after the thing where you now type your pin into the machine rather than sign. I bought some petrol and the cashier accidently charged me twice, on my statement there was a note that said it must have been a mistake as the date and time were the same and they had automatically knocked the second charge off. If I try to buy electronic items in Italy with it and the cashier does not put in the correct code when asked my card is switched off to stop fraud until I ring and restart it.

Now my Italian gets duplicate charges on it every now and then, but with these I have to travel to the bank(hour each way) to fill out some forms to get a refund. Then last year when my card was refused, I rang the helpline it gave you on the card. I was told that because I had not used the card for 3 months it had been switched off, so when I was next at the bank I mentioned this, they said it was not true and that I must have put the wrong pin in the cash machine(even when I kept telling them that I never use it for cash).
In this electronic age where we keep watching films that track people by their credit cards, you are telling me that the bank/helpline can not tell you why they switched your card off?

Mark,

Bank helpline staff are unfortunately completely clueless... Whenever I phone the Halifax 'helpline' I get different answers from different people ... even during the same phone call!!

When I phoned 4 months ago about a final payment for an old loan, one told me I'd overpaid the loan and would get money back, while the next person told me I had more to pay off than I thought! Both enquiries made to the same phone number on the same day (I'm sceptical, so rather call several times lol)... turned out the answer was neither and quite simple but the helpdesk people didn't have access to the correct information!! Took me around 8 calls over one month to find out, with lots of "I'll put you through to ... dept"!! Makes me wonder what they're there for... :mad:

S :)

I'd like to tell you a nice little Italian story. I put my Italian card into an ATM in a town about ten km away, and it ate it. Luckily it was an ATM belonging to my bank, so the next day I dropped into my branch and told my tale. My nice bank chap Mauro instantly rang up Silvio at the branch with the faulty ATM, who confirmed his machine had been eating everybody's cards that weekend, and that he would drop my card in at Mauro's sister's house that evening, for Mauro to pick up on my behalf and bring into my branch the next morning!

A few million miles away from a Call Centre experience. :) :)

[QUOTE=Iona]Makes me wonder what they're there for... :mad:S :)[/QUOTE]
Ap'punto,
But it is a case of different people, different experiences Iona. Having spent the last lifetime(WELL IT SEEMS LIKE IT...OK) getting a mortgage here. Many times I have prayed that I could get one with the Halifax, in a past life :) I had two mortgages with them and did not have one problem

LOL, Mark... maybe they're better organised in mortgage admin than in the loans dept... ;)

Relaxed... lovely story... there's hope yet!!

After 9 months and several threatening letters from a debt recovery agency Europcar have now written to me admitting their mistake and have agreed to cancel the invoice for 208 euros for the damage to their vehicle.

Hi Pixies, so glad it's finally been sorted out for you!

Hello Pixie,

What fantastic news!!! Well done! Perseverance pays off, doesn't it?!!! :)

S