2715 Back to the Middle Ages

Me neither Francesco, ohhh dear it's awful.

[quote=Francesco]I'm just furious!:mad:

The Italian "Corte Suprema" decided yesterday that if a girl has had previous sexual intercourse, in case she gets raped the "damage is lighter" (sic).

No comment at all[/quote]

Let me get this straight, if my niece, who has never had intercourse gets raped, regardless of how old she gets to be in this innocent state it is a worse crime than if her mother gets raped, who obviously has had intercourse? I feel sickened by that as any person male or female who gets raped is equally damaged. How ever maybe it is religion related?:confused:

The idea refers to girls "under age". Basically, this teenager had repeatedly been raped by her step-father. The judges found out she had a boyfriend, and that she was having sexual intercourse with him. So they basically said (hope I'm not getting rude, I'll try and keep it soft) " she's been there before, she already knew what that was all about after all".:mad:

How many female judges are there ????? the reasoning is flawed methinks, the fact that the rapist was the step father should have ensured a hefty sentence at least, I remember similar judgements in GB a while back though, sad stupid decision...

Yeah, similar to that a few years ago saying that raping a woman wearing very tight jeans was not to be considered a crime: how could the rapist have taken such tight jeans off without being helped by the victim???? Simple as that!

me thinks u are trying to hard to simplyfy things.
which is worse? killing someone or rape? seriously which is worse.
ok they are both evil/bad, but surley murder is worse? some one is dead forever.
now killing someone and murder are the same thing right? well no
we have a law system that tries to destinguish the varying degrees of killing
some one. 1st degree 2nd degree manslaughter ect. still all of them are about killing someone, but to different degrees of the law.
the same thing is apllied to thieves and faudsters ects.
and now the same laws are being applied to rape.

I respect your opinion Giovanni, but don't agree on the "simplifying things" thing. I do believe that that the 2 cases I stated show that rape is still being judged from men's points of view, not women's, the victims, that is.

[QUOTE=Francesco]I respect your opinion Giovanni, but don't agree on the "simplifying things" thing. I do believe that that the 2 cases I stated show that rape is still being judged from men's points of view, not women's, the victims, that is.[/QUOTE]

i am not going to try to defend judges.
but they fall into the same catogory as police, doctors, ect.

they deal with much more how can i put it, the horrible world.
when we read about there dissisions, we do not have access to ALL the details,we only get a broad picture.
now i am not saying that they don't get it wrong, nor that they are men
with men attitudes,but u can turn that round and say that they have to deal
with these things from a uninvoled perspective,and use no emotions.

and its not just a man thing, as u would find women judges perform the same
way,if not even more so to the guidlines set by the law.....

Giovanni, the problem is that the judiciary, by making judgements like the one Francesco quoted, are actually Making the law, not, following any guidelines, that is what makes the situation dangerous.

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Giovanni, the problem is that the judiciary, by making judgements like the one Francesco quoted, are actually Making the law, not, following any guidelines, that is what makes the situation dangerous.[/QUOTE]

i should really shut up, because i am on to a hiding to nothing.[thinking out aloud]
my comments were based on the original post.
i tried to make the distinction that in all other forms of law, there are degrees
to how serious a crime is,within its on subject.
violent crimes are deemed the most serious,and to me rape is in that catogory.
but each sub catogory then has its set of rules/standards.
not all kilings are judged the same. not all violent assults are judged the same. it is therefore reasonable to believe, and therefore apply that not
all rapes are the same.so some sort of standards/rules must be applied.

its ok to attack a judgement, but assumptions are not really a good idea,
unlesss u have all the evidence in front of u, or have some sort of idea as
to how u could use a different set of standards to apply.

Giovanni, you are rationalizing this way too much. Are you trying to say that for example, if someone rich is robbed of their money it is less of a crime than if someone is poor and robbed of their last 10 euro?

If a woman is raped she is raped. Her past should not enter into the decision. Rape is also not about sex but about violence.

The judges in Italy are mainly old men who do not agree with modern society. The whole judicial system needs to be looked at on a whole. People who commit murder (Anna Maria Franzoni for example) do their time at home instead of in JAIL where they belong. That is because 1) she is Prodi's niece and 2) the judges thought it was important that a mother be with her other children. She killed one child but the backwards thinking judges think she should be with the others? Makes total sense?????????

Rape is rape whether the woman or man was a virgin or not. Punto basta!

I have just read about this in my paper this morning, and feel very sad about the outcome of the matter.
I also agree with cristina, in the fact that rape is rape and is a serious offence. The person committing this crime, should I feel not have his sentence reduced, as it is seeming to make the crime appear less serious. Also, surely it is also a crime as the girl must be under age? Is the law the same in Italy as it is here in England? That I do not know, unless anyone here can enlighten me.
Let us hope that the judges think very hard before they give sentence.

Francesca

[QUOTE=cristina]Giovanni, you are rationalizing this way too much. Are you trying to say that for example, if someone rich is robbed of their money it is less of a crime than if someone is poor and robbed of their last 10 euro?

If a woman is raped she is raped. Her past should not enter into the decision. Rape is also not about sex but about violence.

The judges in Italy are mainly old men who do not agree with modern society. The whole judicial system needs to be looked at on a whole. People who commit murder (Anna Maria Franzoni for example) do their time at home instead of in JAIL where they belong. That is because 1) she is Prodi's niece and 2) the judges thought it was important that a mother be with her other children. She killed one child but the backwards thinking judges think she should be with the others? Makes total sense?????????

Rape is rape whether the woman or man was a virgin or not. Punto basta![/QUOTE]

as to your first sentence, yes i am infact it goes without saying that if you
rob someone of ALL there belongings,then u leave them in a far worse state
than someone who has plenty left. yes it is still wrong but there is still a
difference.
using your way of thinking, u could say a driver is guilty of murder if someone
was to run in front of them, even though he was doing nothing wrong!
the outcome would still be that he killed someone,so therefore he is guilty
of murder.........
or someone punches u in the face once, would be the same as if he punched
u repeatedly and kicked u unconscious. crimes of violence,but the punishment is not the same,and rightly so....

Actually Giovanni, I believe and am sure others would agree if a driver knocked a pedestrian down and they died,and was not fault of driver it would be classed as an accident and may carry a manslaughter charge, unless of coarse it was due to drink and driving, then thats murder, however ive never heard of any one being RAPED by accident, normally rapists is with intent and probably pre meditated, and should be dealt with, its called CASTRATION

[QUOTE=FRANTIANI]Actually Giovanni, I believe and am sure others would agree if a driver knocked a pedestrian down and they died,and was not fault of driver it would be classed as an accident and may carry a manslaughter charge, unless of coarse it was due to drink and driving, then thats murder, however ive never heard of any one being RAPED by accident, normally rapists is with intent and probably pre meditated, and should be dealt with, its called CASTRATION[/QUOTE]

i am sorry ,but know little of what u are going on about,my comments are on the law. but u seem to know so much more than me on this subject,
thankfully,as i didn't know that rapists normally go out with the intent and
pre meditated.
here in england when a case hits the headline,u normally find all sorts of
reasons for why, how , and who...........

my other comments on the driver ect.was an example,to match the earlier
one given to me. it was an example of the driver killed someone,and is therefore a killer murderer{full stop} no if buts or whys and as such should
therefore be treat as such. which i agree would be ridiculess.

the topic was not so much about what rape is, but the punishment that should be handed out{prison terms} and some believe no distingsion should
be made, so i presume they believe the sentance should be the same no
matter what.
i don't, why?ask yourself this, is it really the same thing a young virgin girl,
just starting out in womenhood,having her dreams and asperations distroyed,
excactly the same as those of say a mature emosionally strong women.

who do u believe has been damaged the most,whilst it is serious,lets not
make light of it,are u saying there is no distinction between them.

When I first read this post I was going to reply in a similar vein to giovanni as having meagre knowledge of criminal sentencing I was also under the impression that guidelines were used to determine the sentence.

I imagine that all the evidence was studied and a decision reached by the judges (ancient old sexist men apparently) and certain factors must increase or decrease the sentence.

If there were only one sentence per crime personally I don't think that workable.

Deportation for theft: loaf of bread versus embezzling £10 million from your firm.

15 years for rape/sexual assault:

So 15 years for the step-father and 15 years for her boyfriend who was also sexually assaulting an under age "victim".

Life imprisonment for the battered and abused wife who stabs her hubby or hits him with an iron (poor Mo) :D

10 years for manslaughter driving the car when a drunk steps in front of you.

Obviously mitigation does not enter in to this black & white world.

I believe giovanni posted a sensible post and didn't deserve some of the hostile response he got.

Frantiani

I hope nobody gets wrongly convicted on your planet, otherwise there would a big graveyard and loads of eunuchs living there.

Dave (not a bleedin heart liberal).

Giovanni I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day rape is a evil vicious crime, no matter what age the victim is, a virgin girl or mature woman the outcome is the same, lives are shattered, mentally and physically damaging at any age it ruins whole familes lives, so no is the answer to your question in my opinion,

[QUOTE=FRANTIANI]Giovanni I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day rape is a evil vicious crime, no matter what age the victim is, a virgin girl or mature woman the outcome is the same, lives are shattered, mentally and physically damaging at any age it ruins whole familes lives, so no is the answer to your question in my opinion,[/QUOTE]

but your answer fits into, murder and violent theft as well, so the punishment
should be the same for all of them?

ynot.... wish i could have put it that way....

[quote=giovanni]ask yourself this, is it really the same thing a young virgin girl,
just starting out in womenhood,having her dreams and asperations distroyed,
excactly the same as those of say a mature emosionally strong women.

who do u believe has been damaged the most,whilst it is serious,lets not
make light of it,are u saying there is no distinction between them.[/quote]

I am finding it very difficult to get my head round this. It's a bit like saying, a child who has cancer should be given more care/treatment than anyone over say 40! Rape could destroy any persons life irrespective of age or previous experience. The lasting effect would depend very much on each individule, care and support that followed. A child may battle the consequenses of this because they are young and look to the future, where as an older person may just think their life is over.

I can not put rape into different levels.

actually i have nothing much to say in this discussion apart from the fact that all papers , politicians and normal people here find it as hard as those on the forum to understand the comments or evn condone them... i think anyone with half a brain will understand that these were stupid... and offensive..

however the law here is different ... the judges... lawyers and even notaries .. are a very powerful and influential group generally based on the left side of politics and a law unto themselves beholden and not responsible to anyone...

in fact strange to me that this has taken so long to appear on the forum... and if i was another posting here i would remind you that this is a forum for lovers of all...repeat all things italian... as has oft been commented on anything i might have to say on the more absurd parts of life here.. but anyway

giovanni has a point and i might even agree with him ... but in law and i really dont think most people would even need a law to tell them ... a young person male or female is not entirely responsible under law for their actions... ie this person 13 years old may not have the mental capacity to deal with adult manipulation and the law here should be there to protect people below the age of adulthood from people that have distorted sick and dangerous ideas on life... maybe giovanni if you can look at it this way a child under law is innocent... if an adults abuses that innocence how can it be justified by any of the childs previous actions... does a nine year old wearing lipsick and mini skirt deserve to be raped because she has kissed a class mate... or a thirteen year old who has never known a real childhood because of an abusive parent not deserve more help from a society that has left her from the age of 9 or 10 at least a recognition that what she has suffered should never have been... should never be accepted by any of us as anything else than the most serious of crimes..

the judge will go or stay... it doesnt really matter... if he leaves he will have a massive pension and another of his friends with the same distoted views will arrive....

it will all be arranged nicely... the girl will be forgotten.. they would rather talk here about the milan week of fashion coming up... i would frankly like to stick a large chinese firework up a person who is a so called judges ass and watch him talk about penetration and while exploding in the sky... but there again would that be 1 st degere or 2 nd degree assasination ... or would i have enough friends here to allow me to say it was justifiable homicide because the man was such an insufferable prat and a danger to young people of which italians take such good care of

finally and maybe more to the point... if i could or anyone else on here i guess ... i would say that a child deserves a childhood.. and that if i could or it was possible then the child in this case should have her right to this upheld and like most..thankfully... she should be allowed to grow and develop as any child... and i would apologise to her for the sad truth of what we like to call the adult world....

[quote=giovanni]i am not going to try to defend judges.
but they fall into the same catogory as police, doctors, ect.....[/quote]

My friend Giovani!
I hate to point this out, but judges, for the most part, are as corrupt as the lawyers they once were. I agree with another post, these judges very often do not follow the law, but make their own laws, to ensure their pay-off at the end of the day. Trust me, I speak from experience, where judges from the Superior court, the Appeal court, and even up to the Supreme court all ignored the law to save the case of one of their own, a very prominent and powerful attorney.

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I agree that a young child, especially if very young, may not have the mental capacity to deal with adult manipulation and this does make it more horrendous but irrespective of age or past experience the maximum sentence should be given for rape and never reduced.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[QUOTE=FrancisM]My friend Giovani!
I hate to point this out, but judges, for the most part, are as corrupt as the lawyers they once were. I agree with another post, these judges very often do not follow the law, but make their own laws, to ensure their pay-off at the end of the day. Trust me, I speak from experience, where judges from the Superior court, the Appeal court, and even up to the Supreme court all ignored the law to save the case of one of their own, a very prominent and powerful attorney.[/QUOTE]

yes, u do have a point.....

I am not familiar with the facts of this case and so shan't comment, save to say that there seems to be a strongly held opinion on this forum and in the world at large that the judges made a mistake.

This happens in England and other countries too. At the time there is a public outcry and a call for old deadbeat judges to be removed. Sex offences are amongst the most emotive crimes - often involving innocents who deserve to be better protected in the first place and as such there is understandably widespread concern at a miscariage of justice.

However, the way this has been treated by some here today one would think that the whole Italian judicial system is corrupt from top to bottom and that the senile old judges manage the akward balancing act of being left-wing subversives at the same time as being right-wing reactionaries.

What you have been talking about are extreme cases (not the norm) and I would like you all to stop a minute and read the posts again and imagine how they would come across to you if they were by Italians commenting on your country's honoured institutions.

I don't know in Italy but in England judges can and do make new law in the sense that judicial precedents are binding and can only be overturned by a higher court. What the highest court (the House of Lords) don't like is lower judges overturning their decisions as Lord Denning used to do. However, this made him popular with the people and the press not the opposite.

Perhaps the Notaio will inform us on how the judicial system really works in Italy.

i think italians would and could only agree with most of what has been said... there is very little honour and virtually no popular or even intellectual support for the judicial system here... everyone understands and knows the system ...this is not an isolated case ... it is actually nothing like the english common law system where judges actually evolve the law...the law is established here and the rules via presidential decree ...
... i think the only part of the judicial system that does have any popular support is the investigating magistrate... they are often in the front line of the fight against organised criminality... and there have been some real heroes over time which has lead to this... but even here there is often a big gap about what happens as crime and the capability of the investigators to be independant....
... i think you might also find that some of the posts have come from italians of the forum... in this thread... and if not from italians some that have lived here for quite a long time and have seen a lot happen in front of there eyes...
.. in fact i do not agree with the concept of nationality in the way you put it in any case... for the last twenty five to thirty yeears i have been more than proud to all myself a european ... and one of the happiest days for me was when my old blue passport ran out and i eventually had this confirmed on the front of my new passport... i am an eu citizen... this gives me the right to comment ...if i even thought i needed it ... to comment on my nation... europe... i like parts of english life , italian life... and any other part of life that suits me.... luckily i do not and have never had any patriotic values over anything much ...
... notaries in fact are part of the same system ... legal beauraucrats... with extreme and a prejudicial interest in maintain ing a complicated set of rules for life here... its how they keep comfortable ... and a part of that system of beauracracy that the left wishes to keep ... the right trying to free up... i think neither side here that rules do a very good job and would rather see some of the truer central parties grow and get rid of these old hat extreme sides... ie on both left and right there are much more central and well balanced leaders of smaller parts of the coalitions that would represent italy in a much better way ... in a sense one of the reasons i actually apreciate and welcome the forums notary and his comments is because despite being part of a system i do not hold in high regard he seems to me to represent a more balanced view and a progressive idea of where it should head... but i would think he is a minority and an exception... ...

Giovanni.
I don't say much on here I prefer to listen and learn and this is not a personal attack on you or any one else.
I think what you are trying to say is that we should accet the different degrees of sentence set out by the courts and that that is o.k. (Hope this makes sense as I find this very dificult and am trying to contain my anger).
I fully agree with what all the ladies on this forum are saying and trulli, except the one who says that rapists should be castrated,as I don't think that that would stop them attacking women, they should be decapitated as surely it is a mental matter to have this incredible power over a defencless female for a moment in time. (as I am sure that is what they are about )
A statement you made in one of your postings (for why how and who)
There is no reason on this earth that any human being should experience that violation of their mind and body, and who ? Who is the poor innocent person that these premeditators chose on the night.

Lets look at it from the other side from someone who has experienced and dealt with this first hand and see and try and feel the devastation it causes to all around.

A young person very close to me was held all night in a pub and raped by the landlord, she was eventualy freed with force, within a few hours she informed her father that she had been forced to submit to anything you want to think of. The police were informed , they took her to the hospital for examination, after only partly examining her the stupid foreign doctor in our wonderful English hospital told her to go home have a bath and you will feel better, oh and come back in the morning and I will do a full examination, it was 2am in the morning and the poor police doctor who was called out was tired. (forensic evidense washed away )
Next day the police intercept the father outside the pub on his way to deal with the evil B++++++d, they then arrest, him the landlord to save him any injury, but he gets bail because he is a good member of the comunity (A licencee with a pub to run )
The police then visit the father and after a lot of meaningless talk they let out that they are concerned for the landlords safety. Threatened the father they did ) but his answer was I will do what my conciense tells me and if I do what you are thinking i will not run I will wait for you.
The father is under all sorts of pressure from every one around, he is tryng to keep this from the neighbours, some members of the family, the news papers etc, His son is saying to him, dad this msn has to be dealt with, what ? are you going to do. ( you cant even begin to understand the pressure that builds up ) and it gets worse- (AIDS) what if he had it, so on top of everything else the poor child has to be informed of this and told that she will have to wait 3 months for the result. (Think about the devastation of that alone ) Next every person who suffers this type of degradation needs counciling, in England this is not alowed until after the trial for fear of somehow contaminating evidence, evidence meaning the poor childs mind which was already contaminated.
What does she do ? where does she go ? there is no where, no help, she is only a victim.
The daughter shuts herself away in her room, the father has had enough, he goes to the pub with a gun but guess what a police car is sitting in the car park, still he goes inside and there is only 2 plain clothes police inside protecting the the pillar of the comunity the innocent until proven guilty perpetrator.

Some months later the day before the trial the daughter accepts advice from a councilor who by law is not alowed to council her that it would be wise not to appear in the court as it may have immotional effects on the baby she was carrying
Again another victim deprived of their rights.
The landlord was sacked next day and the pub was shut down by the brewers,
if the father was writing this 8 years ago he would say that the perpetrator would be dealt with in time, because it never leaves your mind, it haunts you forever, it creates a no go area in what was a very happy family, strange it is undescibable.
If there is a good note to this a wonderful boy is growing up, loved by everyone, but he can't replace the loss of dignity and the memories a young person has of being violated against her will.

Appologies for the length and content of this, but unless you have been involved in it first hand you will never understand and I hope that is never.

Giovanni
Think- even a prostitute can be raped ( they too are entitled to their rights )
and don't put to your faith in the degrees of the law, even in huge cases in the old bailey the verdict is determined before the first hearing.
And this case was sorted by all the upstanding members of the comunity, ( see we even have them here in England , but they are not called the Maffia )

There surely has not been a man born who does not desire the enjoyment of a woman, it is only natural but the ones who take it by force are not humanily natural and therefore should never be treated on a scale of degrees.

Sdoj, it’s really difficult to describe the legal system of a Country in a forum like this.
All I can do is just a superficial portrait and a general information.
As said in the above posts, we aren’t (like all the continental Europe) a common law Country and therefore here the judges cannot “make new law in the sense that judicial precedents are binding and can only be overturned by a higher court”.
It’s the law, in civil and criminal affairs, that guides the judges’ decisions.
The laws, like any in other democracy, are issued by the Parliament (not “via presidential decree” Adriatica) and they must (should) follow the guiding principles of our Constitution, that is the italian supreme law (like in the USA, but not in the UK, where, as far as I know, there’s no constitution at all).
Well, once a law is issued, the judges must enforce it, but they have also the right and duty to interpret it: this is not strange, it is essentially the judge’s job everywhere in the (free) world, moreover the laws aren’t always well written and they may generate many different and confusing interpretations and this is the reason why same situations may have different decisions (like everywhere).
A first information: who are the judges?
According to my knowledge, in common law countries they are often former lawyers and are often appointed by the govern.
In Italy the selection is totally different.
There is a public national examination (concorso), very difficult and selective, where can take part all the laureates in Law. Once the candidate has won the concorso, he/she is part of the Magistratura: the judicial body of the Country, one of the three powers, along with the executive power (the Govern) and the legislative (the Parliament).
The career of a judge isn’t decided by the govern, but by Consiglio Superiore della Magistratura – a sort of mini-parliament formed predominantly by judges.
Even the investigating magistrates are part of the same “body” and come from the same concorso.
The criminal trials are based on the accusatory system, with prosecutor and defend at the same level, cross examination, presumption of innocence, the judge as neutral third party etc.
Apart from the biggest crimes (homicide etc) there is not a jury and it’s the judge that decides about the innocence and determines the punishment
There are three level of judgement: Tribunale, Corte d’Appello (appeal) and Cassazione (High Court)
Tribunale and Corte d’Appello value the facts related to the crime, while the Cassazione do not judges about the facts, but only about the right application of the law and because of this function, it gives the guidelines for the interpretation of the law, but this is not constricting outside the trial put at its attention.
An important point: the presumption of innocence is valid until the Cassazione judgement: so if a person is sentenced by the Tribunale and then the judgement is confirmed by the Corte d’Appello, he is still considered innocent.
This doesn’t mean that a person cannot go to prison before the Cassazione’s decision This may happen only if there are some conditions:
- getaway risk,
- probable repetition of the crime
- risk of proves corruption
It’s always the judge, after a request made by the prosecutor that decides, to send to jail a person, before the final judgement
The investigating magistrates have the duty to start the action if they receive the news item of a crime: they are not allowed to select the crimes to prosecute and if they want to stop an enquiry, they must ask to a judge to value the case and it’s the judge that always decides to stop the investigation or to start the trial .
Even the victim can take part in the trial, with his own lawyer and may ask or suggest further investigations.
This is a general view of the system: does it work?
It has good principles, but the trials last too long and many crimes simply do not get a final decision because the processes go over the time limit within a crime must be tried.
Moreover, there too many laws and the Parliament changes too often the rules without a coherent project, as happened with many of the laws issued in the last 5 years.
Is the system corrupt?
Obviously there are “rotten apples” as we say in italian, but generally this is not the at an high level and surely it is not the rule among the magistrates.
Well, many other things to say, but it’s late….

C-Joe, Thank you for your post, you have explained in detail what I was trying to say in my little posts and I am grateful to you for sharing this story.

You can include me in with the ladies, I am one too. :)

[quote=sdoj]I am not familiar with the facts of this case and so shan't comment, save to say that there seems to be a strongly held opinion on this forum and in the world at large that the judges made a mistake.

This happens in England and other countries too. At the time there is a public outcry and a call for old deadbeat judges to be removed. Sex offences are amongst the most emotive crimes - often involving innocents who deserve to be better protected in the first place and as such there is understandably widespread concern at a miscariage of justice.

However, the way this has been treated by some here today one would think that the whole Italian judicial system is corrupt from top to bottom and that the senile old judges manage the akward balancing act of being left-wing subversives at the same time as being right-wing reactionaries.

What you have been talking about are extreme cases (not the norm) and I would like you all to stop a minute and read the posts again and imagine how they would come across to you if they were by Italians commenting on your country's honoured institutions.

I don't know in Italy but in England judges can and do make new law in the sense that judicial precedents are binding and can only be overturned by a higher court. What the highest court (the House of Lords) don't like is lower judges overturning their decisions as Lord Denning used to do. However, this made him popular with the people and the press not the opposite.

Perhaps the Notaio will inform us on how the judicial system really works in Italy.[/quote]

Let us not for one minute think, these judges made a mistake, they did not. But, what these guys did follow their own agenda, let the victim be damned, that is their clear message.

Also, laws are made by the elected representative, and the judges must follow these laws; but, they often do not, and come up with their own version of law, as they see fit, which is really illegal.

The judicial systems of the world stink, it is not just the Italian one, far from it.

The courts and the lawyers are a major cancer on this earth, and the only reason they can feed from society is, because we are all stupid to trust in their corrupt system. Let us remember many of our elected officials used to be lawyers. Therefore, the laws are written by lawyers for lawyers, to facilitate the rich and powerful, who can afford these sharks, to get off even with murder when the need arises. Just recall O.J. Simpson, and there are many like him.

[QUOTE=FrancisM]Let us not for one minute think, this judges made a mistake, they did not. But, what this guys did follow their own agenda, let the victim be damned, that is their clear message.

Also, laws are made by the elected representative, and the judges must follow these laws; but, they often do not, and come up with their own version of law, as they see fit, which is really illegal.

The judicial systems of the world stink, it is not just the Italian one, far from it.

The courts and the lawyers are a major cancer on this earth, and the only reason they can feed from society is, because we are all stupid to trust in their corrupt system. Let us remember many of our elected officials used to be lawyers. Therefore, the laws are written by lawyers for lawyers, to facilitate the reach and powerful, who can afford these sharks, to get off even with murder when the need arises. Just recall O.J. Simpson, and there are many like him.[/QUOTE]

yes i totally agree....spot on..

just wanted to add that the equivalent of the high court has declared this sentencing as incorrect, an example of bad judging and calls everyone to freely ignore.

this does not reduce its gravity for the people involved but at least we can be pretty sure that it will not be repeated.

[quote=ronald]just wanted to add that the equivalent of the high court has declared this sentencing as incorrect, an example of bad judging and calls everyone to freely ignore.

this does not reduce its gravity for the people involved but at least we can be pretty sure that it will not be repeated.[/quote]

If the high court saw fit to disagree with this ruling, why was it not overturned, and the lower court ordered to corrrect themselves?