2747 Italians would like to move abroad

I haven`t met anyone down here in Puglia that would like to move abroad. I think that`s possibly because family ties are really strong (people don`t even want to move a few kms down the road to a different town!) and, as long as you`ve got a reasonable job, life is very good. The food is fantastic, the people are friendly, the beaches are good etc. Why would you want to live anywhere else? People want to travel but they do always want to return home. I guess if you`re unemployed you`d have a different take on it.

[QUOTE=Francesco]According to this research 1 out of 3 Italians would gladly move abroad, where life (so they say) has got more opportunities.

What do you think?:eek:[/QUOTE]

would assume these polls were taken in cities,and towns,north and central
italy? only say that because who travels south, unless delievering or on
vacation!
still interesting poll.....

it comes from research last year and was also accompanied by a poll showing that for the first time since the war italian parents think their children will be worse off than them... and both points are most probably due to the joining of the euro system... where italians havesuffered a big fall in their purchasing ability...thats the perception... accompanied by short term working contracts and outside competition.... in the short term they are most probably right to feel this way... but i think things will slowly turn around... however they see the world now as a bigger place... a lot can read or understand english ...and they see places outside of italy as growing and fun.... they also see relatives returning from foreign countries for holidays etc...who always appear more wealthy.... even the english spending lots of money on redoing houses here might well make them think ... especially when you are buying in some of the poorer remote rural areas... the real problem as in all polls is that we dont know who commisioned it and what was asked... but aside from that when you talk to younger people here i think a lot would welcome the opportunity to work away from italy...especially when they compare salaries abroad to what is payed here....

Don't forget that polls in England consistently say that most people would rather emigrate! Of course most don't, and there is a rising number of people (257,000 British people according to today's Telegraph) that own property abroad but only stay there part of the time; sort of having the best of both worlds.

I suspect that its a general phenomenon - constant glamorisation of "lifestyle" in the media - everything from being pencil thin and driving fast cars, to life in the greener grasses of the other man's land. :)

In the 19C and after the wars of course, emigration was not "desirable" but necessary for survival - those kind of factors are not writ large in Europe today, but there is a general uneasiness where people feel they aren't living up to the "opportunities" presented.

It's interesting & I'd agree with WT that it's likely to reflect a desire to explore the "greener grass".

I'd suggest that the world is starting to feel smaller; interntional travel is cheaper & *could* make international commuting easier.

.....dunno, that's my two pen-orth; or maybe just my view on my life(!)

Oh absolutely. All the Italians we know - irrespective of age or what they do for a living - envy the fact that we split the year between Italy and elsewhere. And they can't understand why we plan to be in Italy permanently when my husband retires. I'm looking forward to feeling more settled but they all have itchy feet. Those who are retired with children living overseas (America or Australia) tend to spend almost every winter with them. And the cheap flights have certainly had a massive impact of the ability to travel for Italians as with the Brits. Interestingly, we didn't notice the same wanderlust amongst the French when we lived there in the '90s.

[QUOTE=adriatica] a poll showing that for the first time since the war italian parents think their children will be worse off than them... and both points are most probably due to the joining of the euro system... [/QUOTE]

I don't think it's specifically to do with the euro, although that has prevented increased competitiveness through gradual devaluation. I think the same is the case in the UK; how many of the retirees on this board have comfortable final salary pensions, how many of today's youngsters will have the same? More pensioners and fewer workers, (although not quite as many early retirees in the UK as in Italy), expensive property prices, later retirement. Best make sure you have an inheritance and if you are at the bottom of the educational and economic pile make sure you live long enough to claim the state pension!

The grass always looks always greener!!!!

I live and work in central London and the number of young Italians working here is incredible. Cheap flights from all regions of Italy have opened the UK up in a huge way. The same is true of the Poles and other eastern european countries that have recently joined the wider EU. In virtually every coffee house, bar and restaurant in London it is a rarity to find a native Brit. But at £5.30 an hour or less, employers are exploiting the lure of a better life. In the 8 or so times a year I've visited Italy over the past 5 years, I can't say I've ever found a Brit working in the local Caffe! Why might that be I wonder?

[LEFT][quote=Russ]I can't say I've ever found a Brit working in the local Caffe! Why might that be I wonder?[/quote]

Too hard... no-one speaks English. Try Ibiza, Majorca or Corfu!
[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=Russ]In the 8 or so times a year I've visited Italy over the past 5 years, I can't say I've ever found a Brit working in the local Caffe! Why might that be I wonder?[/QUOTE]

We have a Londonderry lass working in one of ours! Mind you, she is married to the owner (an Italian!

[quote=Russ]I live and work in central London and the number of young Italians working here is incredible. Cheap flights from all regions of Italy have opened the UK up in a huge way.[/quote]

Travelling to London to work for some time in a bar or something similar is for many young Italians (at least from what I hear from friends) a combination between an adventure (I would bet that in survey of under 35s in Italy about what they consider the trendiest town London would be number one), a way to make some money and a way to learn English so that they can then return back home - a kind of gap year of sorts before entering full time employment and settling.

[QUOTE=ronald]Travelling to London to work for some time in a bar or something similar is for many young Italians (at least from what I hear from friends) a combination between an adventure (I would bet that in survey of under 35s in Italy about what they consider the trendiest town London would be number one), a way to make some money and a way to learn English so that they can then return back home - a kind of gap year of sorts before entering full time employment and settling.[/QUOTE]

Ronald is right,
it is quite common among many young italians to have a period abroad, it might be for studyind or working.
Sometimes it becomes a "all life choice", sometimes it is just a limited experience before full time employment in Italy.
A good example is "Erasmus": it is the students exchange program among the european universities.
Many students go abroad and study for 1 year in a different university: in this way they can face different ways of life, different cultures and in the end, open their minds.
It is quite natural that some of them simply prefer different realities, it happens among the italians going abroad and among the foreigners coming in Italy.
And let's not forget love, it is often the strongest force for choosing to stay abroad.;)

Hi

My partner is from Puglia and we are living in London over 3 years now. As you can imagine, we know a lot of Italians who emigrated to London and the majority are from Puglia, Calabria and Sardinia. However, the reason for this might be that Southerners and Northerners don't really mix due to their dialect etc. Most of them moved to London for economical reasons as there is no work in Italy, especially in the South and they have no wish to go back....However, we are all under 35 and Francesco and I are already planning to buy a holiday home in Puglia.

I love it now that there are so many Italians wandering the streets of London. Whenever I hear Italian being spoken, I slow down and try to see if I can understand the conversation. So if you're an Italian in London and you see this old bat lurking suspiciously behind you and your mate, don't worry, it's only me - and BTW I can't figure out what you're saying. :D

It seems to be more common allover Europe with Italians; I've met in Finland some of the ita-expats - most of them are academics under 30 both females and males - three of the guys got married last summer with a finn. Many of them like it here because everything works here (ex. climate), no queues easy bureaucracy, holding timetables etc.

As notaio mentioned, Erasmus student exchange is more and more mixing europeans - several of the couples here have met while studying. Also one fellow returned to finish his engineering studies in Italy, found no job there until his finnish mentor offered a job here.

You get part of the picture by checking [url]www.italiansonline.net[/url] connecting ita-expats online and in reality in their new location, others are also welcome and there I met these Finnitalians who I meet regurarly and can keep up the language.

[QUOTE=Panteric]- three of the guys got married last summer with a finn. [/QUOTE]

Is that legal?

There are a large number of Italian expats living in the Los Angeles area. Many southern Californian families have relatives in Italy, and when the young cousins are looking for an adventure they come to stay with them while going to school and learning english. They are very well organized. I found this website were local Italians can get together and network. Maybe there are a few aspiring actors ;)

[url]http://expatitalian.meetup.com/groups/?dbCo=us&dbOutsideUsLink=&country=us&zip=90292&submit.x=30&submit.y=11[/url]

Today I've been to the Comune where there's a showcase displaying the wedding banns.
Because I'm a curious man, I glanced at it.
There were 5 couples announcing their wedding and this is what I've discovered:
n. 1: both italians,
n. 2: groom Italy - bride Cuba
n. 3: groom Rumania - bride Tunisia
n. 4: groom Italy - bride Russia
n. 5: both Morocco
So the question is: who are becominig the italians?

[QUOTE=sdoj]Is that legal?[/QUOTE]

Yes! ................ in Utah

[QUOTE=notaio]Today I've been to the Comune where there's a showcase displaying the wedding banns.
Because I'm a curious man, I glanced at it.
There were 5 couples announcing their wedding and this is what I've discovered:
n. 1: both italians,
n. 2: groom Italy - bride Cuba
n. 3: groom Rumania - bride Tunisia
n. 4: groom Italy - bride Russia
n. 5: both Morocco
So the question is: who are becominig the Italians?[/QUOTE]
Probably not half the world Notaio.. but there sure is a lot of Aliens! :D

[I]Only the 'resident alien' benefits from a treatment legally equivalent to that of the Italian citizen and may acquire rights in Italy even in the absence of the condition of reciprocity, while the foreigner who is only 'legally resident'... etc., etc..[/I]

I'll be OK then! :D

:) :)

What I find even more interesting is that ALL the Italians I have met here say they love to travel and love London. Most have only ever spent a week in London doing the sights. None of them realise the reality of living in London and I'm sure some even think the streets are paved with gold.:p

notaio is right... the italian birth rate is no longer in decline thanks to the proliferation of the immigrant families and their obvious attention to the popes directive on producing more children... so his random poll of the marriage banns seems to be dead on... and italy and its aging population will have the support of a new young generation... in fact if mr prodi gets in the offer that berlusconi made of e1000 per child will be increased to e2500... this to be gained by state confiscation of all third houses owned here and then rented out to people without homes... second home owners will be allowed to keep their houses but at an extra taxation cost...

meanwhile the poll shows that its young people that want to leave... and in order of prference either to spain france or england... work being the main criteria... a report today showed that people leaving university with degrees can start earning around e1000 per month ...which even makes english pound wages in the various eateries look quite welcoming.... and dont mention costs... if you cannot get a job all costs are high...and if you compare london or milan to rome ...there will not be much diference...

a bit of a ramble... but there you are... enough to argue with half the forum i guess

[QUOTE=adriatica]
the italian birth rate is no longer in decline thanks to the proliferation of the immigrant families and their obvious attention to the popes directive on producing more children...
... in fact if mr prodi gets in the offer that berlusconi made of e1000 per child will be increased to e2500... this to be gained by state confiscation of all third houses owned here and then rented out to people without homes... second home owners will be allowed to keep their houses but at an extra taxation cost...
[/QUOTE]

John, it is true that the italian birth rate is no longer in decline thanks to immigrants, but considering that their majority is muslim, hindu or orthodox, i don't think they pay too much attention to the pope's directive.
About houses, mr Prodi is programming state confiscation? where can i find more informations?

[LEFT][quote=adriatica]meanwhile the poll shows that its young people that want to leave... and in order of prference either to spain france or england... work being the main criteria... [/quote]

Sounds exactly like Ireland in the 70s, 80s and some of the 90s. Look at it now.
[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=Panteric]Yes! ................ in Utah[/QUOTE]

Hardly...

Try again.

[QUOTE=adriatica] this to be gained by state confiscation of all third houses owned here and then rented out to people without homes... second home owners will be allowed to keep their houses but at an extra taxation cost...
[/QUOTE]

John, are you sure about this one? I know quite a few Italian families who have three properties: cita', montagna e mare - the total value of which would be less than a three-bedroomed-central-London-georgian-terraced house.
So these are not rich people - they have just got their priorities and investments focused on having a quality family life. Some familes of very modest means have two homes - the mountain home where they grew up and then inherited from their parents and the city apartment where they reside most of the time because no work in mountains.

Perhaps the new trusts that the Notaio was talking about will be used to shield the third homes of the very wealthy but will the comfortably-off really have their third homes confiscated if Prodi is elected?

If you have a link - I would like to read more about this.

the third house issue has come up in various political debates..... and i have no intention of reading through the unions manifesto to try and find it...even if its there... of course the right tries to scare and the left tries to hide any communist proposals.... but i have heard it come up on otto e mezza... and i think matrix.... always denied .... but then why are they even talking about it.... its most probably just a ploy to gain a bit of unification support for the left....

berlusconi plays the same game with the extreme right to hold them in the coalition and the federal/autonomous regional govenment is the card he has used to keep it all together.... if it gets past the referendum that will be quite a surprise...

second homes...there are definite plans to change the tax regime on this... and again for details you would have to wade your way through that manifesto again.... also the re evaluations of catastal values are due in both parties scheme of things.... regional spending has to be supported more by regional taxation... its oft the way.... i think this is one of those uk methods of reducing tax in the round by moving the responsability to the local taxation regimes.....

so sorry do not have a clue where to look ... though i can say if your interested in italian life/politics watch channel seven more... maybe its all just a viscious rumour started by the director of TG4 .... a famous Prodi fan....

[QUOTE=Francesco]According to this research 1 out of 3 Italians would gladly move abroad, where life (so they say) has got more opportunities.

What do you think?:eek:[/QUOTE]
Not only the young,the poor or southerners are leaving i personally know two people who have left for Brazil definitively, one has left for Kenya and i know of many others who have already left ( there are now 25.000 in Santo Domingo alone!)The people i know who left were certainly "upper middle class" professionals and entrepreneurs.It's interesting that none of these are going just" to sit in the sun on a terrace" but all are intending to work indeed invest in businesses even those who are no longer young.They are leaving also because of the impossible burocracy that the self employed and "imprenditori" have to put up with here.....

[QUOTE=Sebastiano]Not only the young,the poor or southerners are leaving i personally know two people who have left for Brazil definitively, one has left for Kenya and i know of many others who have already left ( there are now 25.000 in Santo Domingo alone!)The people i know who left were certainly "upper middle class" professionals and entrepreneurs.It's interesting that none of these are going just" to sit in the sun on a terrace" but all are intending to work indeed invest in businesses even those who are no longer young.They are leaving also because of the impossible burocracy that the self employed and "imprenditori" have to put up with here.....[/QUOTE]

Interestingly enough there has been a large influx of Italians into South Africa as well. The community there has been static almost since WW2 but of late there have been many new Italians arriving and setting up businesses there.

Sano,

Things must have changed a little in South Africa since the last time I visited.
As part of the holiday we stayed in a hotel in Franschhoek whilst riding around that area.

There was an Italian tremendously versatile pianist in his early sixties who played in the hotel restaurant. He could play eight musical instruments and speak almost as many languages - very tall and as thin as a rake - a very impressive and likeable man.

However, his story was a sad one - he had no living family in South africa but because of the devaluation of the Rand his savings were worthless in Euro terms and he felt he could never afford to retire in Italy.