2937 Gays Welcome?

Sorry John can't answer your question for you but just wanted to say good luck and wish you well for your exciting new adventure.

Paula:D

I work in the textile trade where gay men generally feel less inhibited about pronouncing their sexuality but my general experience in Italy is that out-of-the-closet gay men tend to live in the large cities: Milan, Florence, Rome etc... and away from the direct gaze of the typical extended family which is still the norm in Italy.
This is not to say that gays do not exist in smaller communities - just that their sexuality is not discussed openly. A sort of "don't ask" - "don't tell" approach.
I could be completely wrong of course and it may be that people just haven't been telling me :D and also Barga is not your typical hilltop town with its jazz club, theatre and opera house. Good luck on the move.

I guess it depends.. on many things.. mainly you and how you handle it.. but unless you are planning to conduct your sexual activities in the Piazza at midday and full view of the whole village.. I'm sure the main curiousity about you will be that you're the new kid new in town. ;)

:) :)

I don't think you have anything to worry about John. There are number of gay couples among the ex-pat population in our country area of Umbria and none of them has ever encountered any discrimination or disapproval, as far as I know. Any strange looks you get are more likely to be as a result of your being a 'straniero' or not understanding their dialect, than anything else.

Conducting sexual activities in the Piazza at midday is not be advised, regardless of your sexual oreientation - it certainly didn't go down well when I tried it. There are beaches and sunsets for that kind of thing ;-)

Well, I wasn't planning to do that, not even if it's the usual entertainment at midday in the village.....:o

As sdoj says, Barga would seem to be more cosmopolitan and "arty" than average, which is a large part of my reasoning for wanting to live there.

Thanks all for your support.

John

I don`t know about `up there` but down here I`ve found that people are very friendly and tolerant and nobody gives a monkey`s what you`re up to. I can`t imagine you`ll come across any discrimination at all - good luck and enjoy the new home.

Oh yeah Marc! Which beaches do you frequent then eh? :D

Aliena claims all the beaches.. from Silvi Marina to Termoli on the Adriatic.. and Terracina to Amalfi on the Tirrenian!

:) :)

[QUOTE=JohnR]Hi All -

I'm in the process of buying a small village house near Barga in northern Tuscany and plan to move there full-time just as soon as possible. As a gay man, I am wondering whether I will encounter homophobia in rural Italy:eek: , or whether it's not an issue:cool: . Any constructive comments would be welcome.

John[/QUOTE]
I don't think you'll find any problems at all perhaps less than in parts of the uk.
i live in rural italy and know a number who have no problems, our establishment also shows the gay friendly flag and we have always a number of gays here,i don't think these stereotypes of behaviour swing much weight here in italy or far less than you may think.Enjoy your move.

Hi John,
I can only agree with the comments made before, druing the times that my partner and I have been around the villages of Le Marche and in his home town in the North we have never come across anything other than a warm welcome and lots of hospitality.
I am sure you will not be "the only gay in the village!"
Best of luck, hope it all goes well.
David

Hi John,

I think that the comments in this post are mostly right. The impression I got of Italy is that society is much further ahead rather than institutions on these issues. For example, one of the debates for the current elections is whether to allow civil unions. The right is mostly against them while the left is supporting them - however a poll of normal people always reveals that the overwhelming majority is for them.

I think it would be wrong to say that Italian society is somehow more or less enlightened. There is still a lot of work to be done. However, there are some very promising signs and you will be suprised about how progressive some of the smaller towns in Italy can be at times - sometimes even more so than bigger towns.

You may want to have a look here - [URL="http://www.arcigay.it/"]Arci gay[/URL]. This website of the Italian Gay Association will probably give you both the good and the bad.

Cheers,

Ronald

[QUOTE=The Smiths in Puglia]I don`t know about `up there` but down here I`ve found that people are very friendly and tolerant and nobody gives a monkey`s what you`re up to. I can`t imagine you`ll come across any discrimination at all - good luck and enjoy the new home.[/QUOTE]

Down there in you also have the Puglia governor elect - Nicky Vendola - who's clearly gay, but this didn't prevent people to choose him insted of his competitor.
In my professional experience I never faced any kind of homophobia.

Gosh I guess you'll be

l'unico gay nel villaggio

Its a shame anyone is judged by their sexuality, remember your a beautiful person first and foremost. There is an undercurrent of gay activity, its discrete, you can always nip into Florence which is apparently the most gay friendly city in Italy! I agree with everyone else, dont rub people noses in it, and just get on with your life. Good luck and have fun boys!

[QUOTE=elainecraig]Gosh I guess you'll be

l'unico gay nel villaggio

Its a shame anyone is judged by their sexuality, remember your a beautiful person first and foremost. There is an undercurrent of gay activity, its discrete, you can always nip into Florence which is apparently the most gay friendly city in Italy! I agree with everyone else, dont rub people noses in it, and just get on with your life. Good luck and have fun boys![/QUOTE]

I was always under the impression that Bologna had the most active gay scene.

Welcome to the forum. It might be worth your while looking at the website for Barga if you have not already discovered it?
[url]www.barganews.com[/url]

Thanks David and Linda - I've been studying barganews closely for the last year or so. It's a great site.

John

Thanks everybody for your comments and welcomes. I'm not now anticipating hostility.

By the way, does anybody know the correct solvent for removing tar and feathers?:D

John

[LEFT][quote=JohnR]Thanks everybody for your comments and welcomes. I'm not now anticipating hostility.[/quote]

Don't you have to have a Scottish accent to live in Barga? :)
Passed by there last weekend in beautiful sunshine and snow on the mountain tops. Aaah!

[/LEFT]

Lucky you, I wish I could hurry things along and make the move!

I don't believe that a Scottish accent has been made compulsory yet, but the commune may well be working on it.

John

[LEFT][quote=JohnR]Lucky you, I wish I could hurry things along and make the move![/quote]

It'll still be there when you're done! Good luck on the move! We're buying slightly further north in Lunigiana.

As a matter of interest, there was an article in the centre of the 'Homes' section of the Sunday Times 4 or 5 months ago; about a gay couple who purchased a house in the Garfagnana valley and moved there from the UK. Can't quite remember where exactly. Did you see it?

[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=JohnR]Lucky you, I wish I could hurry things along and make the move!

I don't believe that a Scottish accent has been made compulsory yet, but the commune may well be working on it.

John[/QUOTE]

We were in a restaurant in Barga one evening last summer surrounded by three generations of Glaswegians celebrating the grand Matriarch's birthday. Hearing Italian spoken, shouted and sung in a broad Glaswegian accent was an experience I won't forget in a hurry. :) :)

[QUOTE=derekL][LEFT]

It'll still be there when you're done! Good luck on the move! We're buying slightly further north in Lunigiana.

As a matter of interest, there was an article in the centre of the 'Homes' section of the Sunday Times 4 or 5 months ago; about a gay couple who purchased a house in the Garfagnana valley and moved there from the UK. Can't quite remember where exactly. Did you see it?

[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

No, I'm in Sydney, and my local newsagent doesn't keep the Sunday Times! But it sounds interesting.

Where in Lunigiana are you buying? I looked on-line at lots of properties for sale there, but decided on Barga because of it being a fairly lively place and also the ease of access to Lucca and Florence.

Good luck for your move too!

John

Have you checked out the website

[url]www.friendlyversilia.it[/url]

I think Tuscany does a lot more than you realise!

Thanks Glen - yes, I have seen the website, and the proximity of Torre del Lago is a definite plus (although I'm not all that much into partying these days).

John

[LEFT][quote=JohnR]
Where in Lunigiana are you buying? I looked on-line at lots of properties for sale there, but decided on Barga because of it being a fairly lively place and also the ease of access to Lucca and Florence.
Good luck for your move too!
John[/quote]

Hi John. In the hills, near Bagnone. Not moving though. Holiday home only.
Don't forget, you'll also be very close to some pretty good ski-ing, if you're that way inclined.
I did the drive last weekend from Aulla, through the valley down to Lucca. Beautiful scenery but it's a real treck! Due to Lunigiana's close proximity to the A15 Parma route and the coastal A12, access to Lucca etc is also pretty easy from there; probably less than an hour.
[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=derekL][LEFT]

Hi John. In the hills, near Bagnone. Not moving though. Holiday home only.
Don't forget, you'll also be very close to some pretty good ski-ing, if you're that way inclined.
I did the drive last weekend from Aulla, through the valley down to Lucca. Beautiful scenery but it's a real treck! Due to Lunigiana's close proximity to the A15 Parma route and the coastal A12, access to Lucca etc is also pretty easy from there; probably less than an hour.
[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

Can't say I've tried skiing - it's a long way from snow here!

I noticed that properties around Bagnone appeared to be priced rather lower than most areas - I have to say I wondered why. Is it just that there are a lot of empty houses there?

John

Hi Derek & John,

I'll pick your brains later this year - if I may ;) - about which areas to visit in particular during our hols (no dates set as yet either argh!). We're not yet looking for houses but I want to get an idea of the area. We're hoping to divide our holiday between Lunigiana and Piemonte...

Good luck!! :)

A presto,
S

Bagnone is beautiful - beautiful river running through it - very nice atmosphere to it!

Properties advertised on a website are not likely to be in the town however but in the hills - hence the price is less!

Depending on how far up in the hills - there may only be a bus service twice a day each way.

Also there may not be shops in the smaller villages around Bagnone - again hence the price difference.

That said - they often have a weekly visit by a shop van selling fish and groceries - so all is not lost!

Often houses are advertised - by the Commune and not the actual village name - the immobiliare dont like you to know exactly where the house is - in case you approach the owner directly by driving to the house and knocking on the door!

They want their commission!!!

[LEFT][quote=GlenB]Bagnone is beautiful - beautiful river running through it - very nice atmosphere to it!

Properties advertised on a website are not likely to be in the town however but in the hills - hence the price is less![/quote]

Personally, I'd pay more for the wonderful views you get up there!! :)

JohnR (and Iona), I have to say I didn't really find it less expensive than a number of other areas I looked at. Cheaper, of course, than Southern or Central Tuscany but, like the Garfagnana, Abruzzo, Puglia etc, I suppose it's a new-ish, emerging market.
It was a thread on this forum that prompted me to take a look at the area (not really the prices) and I liked it immediately. Yes, it's slightly further away from Lucca, Florence etc, but the views and the small hill-top villages are amazing, the beautiful nearby coastline (the Golfo di Spezia and the Cinque Terre) are just minutes away and it's in a perfect access location for a choice of airports and exporing other areas.
[/LEFT]

Just googled the area - amazing beauty there:

[url]http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean.pellegriformentini/Photos.htm[/url]

[LEFT][quote=Sano]Just googled the area - amazing beauty there:

[URL="http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean.pellegriformentini/Photos.htm"]http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean.pellegriformentini/Photos.htm[/URL][/quote]

Thanks Sano. Better than words can describe!
I was standing on that little bridge in the Bagnone picture last week. :)
[/LEFT]

hate to put a downer on this - but isnt there a problem with buying a property in Italy if you are from Australia - another thread talks about this - but what if a company bought it?? Can you get international companies if you are based in a country?

JohnR are you Australian?

Sano,

What lovely piccies... and great website... even for my basic French!! :D

Hmmm... can't wait for our hols!!

Derek,

I think that variety of areas would fascinate me as well... the sea not too far but neither are the hills!! How warm will it get in these hillside villages in the summer? I know that Liguria gets quite hot.

S :)

Genova - is a treasure for weather - Lunigiana alas suffers from the cool mountain winds I feel -

Tho - locals - stress that it has a warm climate - as does the area around San Marcello Pistoiese (near Pistoia) -

But I am yet to be charmed.

However the locals say they hadnt had snow in the winter in Lunigiana for 25 years till last year - but snow now - 2 years running - is this just freak weather - Lusuolo - stunning borgo above the valley - had 0.5 M of snow this year!

[QUOTE=GlenB]Genova - is a treasure for weather - Lunigiana alas suffers from the cool mountain winds I feel -

Tho - locals - stress that it has a warm climate - as does the area around San Marcello Pistoiese (near Pistoia) -

But I am yet to be charmed.

However the locals say they hadnt had snow in the winter in Lunigiana for 25 years till last year - but snow now - 2 years running - is this just freak weather - Lusuolo - stunning borgo above the valley - had 0.5 M of snow this year![/QUOTE]

I have to admit - the cool/cold mountain breeze would be a drawcard for me...

[QUOTE=GlenB]Genova - is a treasure for weather - Lunigiana alas suffers from the cool mountain winds I feel -

Tho - locals - stress that it has a warm climate - as does the area around San Marcello Pistoiese (near Pistoia) -

But I am yet to be charmed.

However the locals say they hadnt had snow in the winter in Lunigiana for 25 years till last year - but snow now - 2 years running - is this just freak weather - Lusuolo - stunning borgo above the valley - had 0.5 M of snow this year![/QUOTE]

Thanks alot, Glen!

We're not necessarily sunbathers - we're beach walkers rather than lounging around there - and would probably welcome a mountain breeze ... ;)

Ahhh I love snow!! That's good news indeed...

Cheers!

[LEFT][quote=Iona]
Derek,
I think that variety of areas would fascinate me as well... the sea not too far but neither are the hills!! How warm will it get in these hillside villages in the summer? I know that Liguria gets quite hot.

S :)[/quote]

Hopefully I'll be able to tell you after this summer!
I 've been told, however, that if you spend a day by the sea there, in summer, then it's quite a relief to be in the hills in the evening.
[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=derekL][LEFT]

Hopefully I'll be able to tell you after this summer!
I 've been told, however, that if you spend a day by the sea there, in summer, then it's quite a relief to be in the hills in the evening.
[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

I know that my sister said many Italians head into the hills, or down to the sea, for relief from the summer heat - daytime in the hilltowns is warm to hot but the evenings are cool - this based on her experience travelling up from Naples to Pescocostanzo in high summer.

[QUOTE=derekL][LEFT]

Hopefully I'll be able to tell you after this summer!
I 've been told, however, that if you spend a day by the sea there, in summer, then it's quite a relief to be in the hills in the evening.
[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

I bet!! Thanks alot for keeping me posted... :)

Cheers,
S

[LEFT][quote=Iona]
Ahhh I love snow!! That's good news indeed...

Cheers![/quote]

The mountains around Lunigiana were covered last week! Wanted to head up there, but no snow-chains! :(

[/LEFT]

DerekL - did you know it is illegal not to have snow chains in snow

I am hoping that - the caribinieri - would be kind tho - as a simple stranero

Yet to find out - in the winter months - I always book snow chains - never had to use them tho!!!!

I parked illegally once - and I fell on - "sorry I dont understand - parli Inglese" - wont do it all the time - each time I get it wrong - I improve my local behaviour

I hope everyone signs in to the Caribineri - if they are in Italy for more than a week!!!!

[QUOTE=GlenB]DerekL - did you know it is illegal not to have snow chains in snow

I am hoping that - the caribinieri - would be kind tho - as a simple stranero

Yet to find out - in the winter months - I always book snow chains - never had to use them tho!!!![/QUOTE]

You 'book' snow chains? I take it that it's with a hire car company??

Si - I aint a local!!!

[LEFT][quote=GlenB]DerekL - did you know it is illegal not to have snow chains in snow ?[/quote]

I did Glen, thanks. Thats why I didn't, or couldn't, head up any higher! I turned round when I saw the first warning sign.
[/LEFT]

Huh? Talk about going off topic.. don't any one of you ever have a go at anyone else for taking a thread off topic ever again.. you naughty, naughty people! :D

At least half of this thread should be placed in the weather section.. erm.. do we have a weather section?

Where are the Mods when you need them? Oops.. they are here already!

Get your scissors out Matron Iona! :D

:) :)

Sorry Aliena - but JohnR responded to the Lunigiana comments - and I got all romantic -

[QUOTE=GlenB]hate to put a downer on this - but isnt there a problem with buying a property in Italy if you are from Australia - another thread talks about this - but what if a company bought it?? Can you get international companies if you are based in a country?

JohnR are you Australian?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm Australian, and yes, there is a problem with Australians buying property, according to advice from a London solicitor who advertises on this website. I'm overcoming it by setting up a trust in which a friend who is a New Zealand citizen is the trustee (and in the eyes of the Italian authorities will be the property owner) and I am the beneficiary and will have a life tenancy of the property. I believe you could also do it by setting up an Italian or other non-Australian company, but then there would be continuing compliance costs. I hope all you EU citizens appreciate how lucky you are!:)

John

[QUOTE=JohnR]Yes, I'm Australian, and yes, there is a problem with Australians buying property, according to advice from a London solicitor who advertises on this website. I'm overcoming it by setting up a trust in which a friend who is a New Zealand citizen is the trustee (and in the eyes of the Italian authorities will be the property owner) and I am the beneficiary and will have a life tenancy of the property. I believe you could also do it by setting up an Italian or other non-Australian company, but then there would be continuing compliance costs. I hope all you EU citizens appreciate how lucky you are!:)

John[/QUOTE]

I guess your english solicitors are talking about reciprocity (reciprocità), that is a condition providing that a foreigner can buy in Italy if an italian can buy in the country where the foreigner is coming from.
It is the italian "foreign office" (Ministero Affari esteri) that verifies the reciprocità.

Well, unless something is changed in the recent days down under in Australia, between Italy and Australia there's reciprocity: an italian can buy there and an australian can do it here.

Here's the communication realased by the italian foreign ministery:
MIN. AFF. EST.- Serv. Cont. Dipl. - Uff. I
[B]21.3.2000[/B]
PAESE: [B]AUSTRALIA[/B]
ACQUISTI IMMOBILIARI (real estate purchases):
E' verificata la condizione di reciprocità (there is reciprocity).
COSTITUZIONE DI/PARTECIPAZIONE A SOCIETA':
E' verificata la condizione di reciprocità.

In other words, you are free to buy here, to set up a company to do all you want in all civil fields.
You do not need trusts or other strange shortcuts, unless you want them for other reasons of course.

[QUOTE=Aliena]Huh? Talk about going off topic.. don't any one of you ever have a go at anyone else for taking a thread off topic ever again.. you naughty, naughty people! :D

At least half of this thread should be placed in the weather section.. erm.. do we have a weather section?

Where are the Mods when you need them? Oops.. they are here already!

Get your scissors out Matron Iona! :D

:)[/QUOTE]

Nope, Aliena - we were never off topic... still talking about Lunigiana and its wonders!!

I'm sure JohnR has learnt alot... especially about the local weather... :D

A presto,

Matron

Iona -

Yes, it's been an education. I'm quite interested to learn about the weather, as living through a cold (well, my idea of cold) winter is probably of more concern to me than, say, bringing my Italian up to speed.

notaio -

Thanks, Ive sent you a PM.

John

[LEFT]
I looked at some images on the Barga website a few months ago [ i think they have an image archive] and, one recent January, the town was covered in a heavy snowfall. The kids were out on their sledges.
Cold, but it looked beautiful. Not sure if that happens regularly.

[/LEFT]