3027 Instantaneous Gas Water Heaters

Hi All -

I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with using instantaneous mains-pressure gas hot water systems in Italy. I have one at my house in Sydney (they are very popular here) and would consider installing one in the village house which I am buying in Toscana for supplying hot water in summer. I'd be interested in knowing:

1. Are they available in Italy?
2. Are there versions which run on GPL?
3. Do they require either a flue, or a vent through the wall?
4. If they require a flue, can the flue be shared with a pellet-fired caldaia (if the flue is suitably sized)?
5. Do they require initial approval and regular inspections by the authorities, as would be the case with a gas-fired caldaia?

I understand that the village has good water pressure.

Any comments would be most welcome!

John

Category
Building/Renovation

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 03/23/2006 - 04:24

Instantaneous Gas Water Heaters" are diffuse in Italy too(Methane or GPL). If you are searching on internet You can find information as "scaldabagni" or "boiler".

Two links as example ( in English).

[url]http://www.hermann.it/VediMacro.phtml?IDMacro=12634[/url]
[url]http://www.cosmogas.it/page/caldaia_gpl.html[/url]

And here you can see various models with prices:

[url]http://www.ilclimatizzatore.net/prodotti.cfm/sottocat/6[/url]

The answers to your questions are:
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes.They require a flue and a vent to take air from outside. Only the models with "camera stagna" that do not use the inner air for the combustion but take it directly from the outside do not require an hole for vent.
4) No. They must have its independent canalization, but, if the size of the flue are good, it is possible to insert inside it (working from the roof) two separated metallic (stainless steel) canalizations.
5) Yes. Not exactly like "caldaia" but each apparate who is gas-based need authorized technical people to fix (this is usually done from people of the shop where you buy).

I think you easily can find shops in Massa or Lucca to buy and to have the service to fix it in your home in according with laws and safety norms.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 03/23/2006 - 15:30

franco,
many thanks for your links!
Do you know if these are only able to run on gas from a bombolina or could one be powered by a bombola?
We do not have town gas and, at the moment, don't have a large gas tank either but we have found the electric water heater to be very slow to heat - and the one we have currently is too small so we are looking at alternatives, possibly short term, until we sort out our ultimate heating and hot water needs.
Best wishes, Lesley & Brian

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 03/23/2006 - 23:17

franco -

Mille grazie for answering all my questions and posting the links!

Lesley & Brian -

I don't think you need to consider this type of water heater as a short-term solution, I've used mine here for several years and would not wish to change to another system. Hot water is always available straight away (or in a few seconds, anyway) and you consume fuel only while you are actually running hot water. Of course, if you want to run 2 showers at the same time, or shower while the washing machine is running, then you would need to size the heater appropriately.

John

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 03/24/2006 - 06:42

Prego! :)

Excuse me Lesley & Brian : what you mean for "bombolina"? The gas cylinder tanks I know are 10,15 or 20, 25 kilograms. All these can be used, the two bigger are better for economy but it is necessary that the room where they are placed is enough big (for emergency norms a gas tank of 20 kg needs a volume room at least of 20 cubic meters). If "bombolina" are those little tanks for "camping" use I think they are too small. Unfortunately the electric power in Italy is very expensive and the limitation to 3 kw ( standard contract for residential use) not allow to have instantaneous electrical heathers as in other countries. I agree with John that a gas heather is a definitive solution, but also to use the "bombola" and replacing it every time is empty can annoy ( I'm not a heating specialist but I think one 20 kg. tanks will be enought for one mounth or few more); I do not know how big is your electric boiler, maybe you can also change it with a bigger one to have enought water for your use but I read that your home is in Calabria... you have a lot of sun for you! Why not to think to a solar collector in order to integrate yours electrical boiler ? Its cost is greater ( or not? solar panel don't need flue or vent ) but you will have from sun warm water approximately to zero cost.
The best solution (in my opinion) will be a mixed system electric or gas + sun, something like in this scheme:
[url]http://www.sunlightsolar.com.cn/Solar/image/Solar_Heating_System__2_.jpg[/url]
or, more simple, like this:
[url]http://www.tecnosolar.net/solaretermico.asp[/url]

Solar panel are good also for you John: Tuscany is not bad for this, all Italy is good to use energy from sun and this is very curious: we are called "the country of sun" but very few houses in Italy have solar collectors installed...

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 03/24/2006 - 08:41

[QUOTE=franco c.] and this is very curious: we are called "the country of sun" but very few houses in Italy have solar collectors installed...[/QUOTE]

:) Indeed!
Ultimately we would hope to use solar but that will be part of the bigger plan which includes remodelling the ground floor and organising central heating for the whole house - thus we need something for the immediate future that will be better than what we have now.
On our last visit we realised that the present electric heater was too small and too slow, and that was for the two of us. We are expecting visitors before Easter and so the problem will be even worse - if we are all having a shower or bath to go out at dinnertime we will have to start at lunchtime!
What I was asking was whether it is possible to run one of these gas heaters from a small gas bottle (the sort that you would use to fuel a cooker or stufa) rather than the very, very larger tanks (that sit in the garden or are buried underground and hold 1200 litres of more of gas).
It seems from your reply that this is possible but obviously it will be a pain to have to keep changing the bottles (but less painful than waiting for the electric water heater, I would hope!).
I will do some more research using your excellent links,
Thanks again, Lesley