3211 Il Professore (Prodi) e Il Cavaliere (Berlusconi)

On the 9th and 10th of April Italy is voting after the longest stretch with the same Prime Minister in its history.

This is an invite for our forum members to express their opinion as well via a vote.

Who do you think should govern the country Romano Prodi or Silvio Berlusconi?

Category

General chat about Italy

But, I reckon it's time they gave Ronald a chance....;)

...but he doesn't swear as well as Berlu
;)

Mine will be a real vote:
Prodi
Yes, i must admit: sono un c*****one

notaio - would gladly join the ranks of the c******i, if it meant I could cast a vote as well. As it stands I just have to wait for Monday...

Neither ....

[QUOTE=guyparry]Neither ....[/QUOTE]

Have to agree that I would not vote for either. One's a crook, the other dull as ditchwater. So, I would exercise my democratic right not to vote. Now if it were Sophia Loren.....

......I've just realied, aren't polls banned from 2 weeks ago?

Tusk..

Everything is subject to change.. and inconsistency, even in a democracy..
:) :)

I'm abstaining.

ROFL... just saw this on the Italy Mag news section... he can't leave it eh??

... "Silvio Berlusconi arrived at the ‘Dante Alighieri’ school at 13:15 accompanied by his mother. He was reprimanded for indicating to his mother the sign of Forza Italia and asking her to place her mark there - no indications of votes are allowed with a poll station." ...

Desperate or what?? :D :eek:

[LEFT]Just out of interest, is this poll technically illegal in Italy as I heard on the news last night that exit polls and the like are illegal within 3 weeks of the election in Italy??[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=DaveJ][LEFT]Just out of interest, is this poll technically illegal in Italy as I heard on the news last night that exit polls and the like are illegal within 3 weeks of the election in Italy??[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

In Italy it is forbidden to publish polls within 2 weeks of the election day.
This is not a real poll, because it has no scientific base and.....moreover it is an english based "poll".

[QUOTE=notaio]In Italy it is forbidden to publish polls within 2 weeks of the election day. This is not a real poll, because it has no scientific base and.....moreover it is an english based "poll".[/QUOTE]

As this poll has taken soundings from real Italian voters (ie you), and it can be read by Italian voters on their way to the polling station, then I would suggest it IS illegal. It's lack of a scientific base is surely irrelevant. (The newspapers in Italy could not publish the results from this poll any more than they can publish results from any other poll.)

If this were not the case then Italian newspapers for example could simply move their web servers to a foreign country and publish what they like on their websites. Corriere delle Sera for example would then not have to wait until 3pm to publish their exit polls online ("Dalle ore 15 i primi exit poll, le proiezioni e i dati ufficiali in tempo reale") etc., they could have them online now and everyone could click on the name of their favourite candidate.

If you want to know what is happening then it is best to have a look at the betting websites to see what people who are putting money where their mouth is think. At 2pm Italian time today with one hour of polling left, the betting is 1.19 for Prodi and 6.2 for Berlusconi with £300k bet so far. Pretty conclusive.

Legal or not? Neil's later post is quite convincing (that this could be construed as a poll) so in order to prevent Silvio sueing Ronald for influencing the result, and calling a new election I propose the following defence!!

The press is not allowed to publish the results of polls: this poll has not yet resulted in anything - it is ongoing. So long as it remains in the public domain for votes to be cast until the real voting closes it cannot be considered to have been published as a "result". Clearly, the press ready with their "exit polls" have been "polling" in the run up to the vote, they are just waiting for the all clear to publish.

Cherie Blair - eat your heart out!! Can I advise your beleagured husband :)

I hear what you say, Neil, but the fact remains that this is a British site and therefore not subject to Italian law. It may be a different story if there were some dead-brained European Commission legislation covering this, but then I would still go ahead and conduct such a poll.

The fact that some Italians may log on to this site is really neither here nor there. As to whether any Italian newspaper could do as you suggest is a moot point. It would certainly be interesting to see if the Italian government would (or could) act against such an action, and would depend on how this particular law is framed.

It would also be interesting to know whether or not Italian-based forums have conducted what is really only a straw-poll over the last couple of days. It would not surprise me if one or two have done so.

(.......I've been wanted about my flipancy before)

Can a chap not post a thow away comment every now & again without it turning into the Spanish Inquisition!?!?

Whether it is illegal or not will surely depend on who wins, providing the answer is "right" of course, bound to get a judicial pardon and a penance to serve, Ronald might have to spend some time on the peninsular ..EEK.. if it all goes pear shaped ;)

I don't know if it was self-censorship or moderator-censorship, but I am intrigued by the word "C******i" getting the **** treatment on this forum, while it is printed in all its glory multiple times in one of the stories listed on the Italy Mag home page.
Can we say c******i or not? Surely if the soon to be ex-PM of Italy can say it we can.

[QUOTE=neilmcn]I don't know if it was self-censorship or moderator-censorship, but I am intrigued by the word "C******i" getting the **** treatment on this forum, while it is printed in all its glory multiple times in one of the stories listed on the Italy Mag home page.
Can we say c******i or not? Surely if the soon to be ex-PM of Italy can say it we can.[/QUOTE]
That's one of lifes great mysteries, it is self censorship though, so, I suppose you could say c******i if you wanted to, or, even type it then see if an overly zealous moderator *'s it :D ;) :confused:

I just stick to saying "[i]cogs[/i]"......much simpler :D

Well it couldn't be closer could it? It seems that the whole situation hngs on the foreign vote......

I'm surprised by the high turn out though.

Most overseas will vote prodi. I, myself voted Berlusca however I wouldnt be too dissapointed to see what Prodi can do if it wasnt for the fact that there are two communist parties within his union. Prodi on his own would get my support if he does secure the win however I cannot agree to Italia being partly ruled by communists. I hope Prodi can spread the wealth, but hope that he doesn't lose too many allies abroad and hope he gains pride for Italia around Europe.

When will the final outcome be announced..:rolleyes:

anytime really once they have counted the overseas ballots. However I have a feeling it will be more like a few months with Berlusconi contesting the decision and probably asking for a second election.

I think there is generally a high turnout, Italian people take their politics seriously, but the problem of coalitions will almost inevitably mean that Prodi will not be able to govern effectively, we had a little earth tremor last night, I like to think it was San' Silvio stamping his feet in temper....

I dont see Prodi staying in for too long. I dont see him being able to control the parliaments with such a small majority and such division within his own coalition.

It's fascinating watching this from a coutnry (the UK) who has rarely had coatition government.

Am I right in thinking that Prodi represents a party rather than a coalition? I recognise that no single party will win a majority, so will need to form a coalition, but do Italians vote for a colation that 'whoever' will lead or a party that is then part of a (known) coalition?

yes Prodi represents primarily his own party though his own party (L'unione Prodi) is also the most dominant within the olive tree collection of parties. So he is leader of both his party and the collection of parties, the same as Berlusconi is Forza Italia within Le case delle Liberta. So the votes are for an individual party however goes towards the overall result for the collection of parties. (That explanation probably doesnt make a bit of sense but saying that neither does italian politics so it is a fitting explanation really)

It seems like a recipe for disaster, the Prodi coalition runs from hard communists to the church, the balancing acts would be hard enough if they had a massive majority, absolutely impossible with a small majority, and, as has already been mentioned, the votes will have to be recounted, San Silvio will cause as much disruption as he can, then, Prodi has to decide who he puts into his "cabinet", Ohh well, Christmas will arrive first me thinks...:(

For a bit of light relieve, but still on the election theme. On Sunday we were walking round Rome after the girlfriend had voted, and I mentioned how impressed I was with the number of people supporting Prodi. When asked how I managed to work this out, I said that it seemed everyone had an olive branch (the sign of Prodi's party). It turns out that I know nothing of politic or religion, but come on! You would think they would carry palms on palm Sunday not olive branches :o :confused:

So now it's official!!! Half of Italy are c******i!!!!
Settle down for a nice long sleep folks.
Prodi is the best sleeping pill I've ever known.
Didn't have a vote but it would have gone to Fini.
Interesting to see that Provenzano was captured today!!!
Did he come back to vote Prodi knowing that he'll be out in a couple of months?
Provenzano out in a couple of months I mean!!!
Magari Prodi out too!!!

[quote=Dream Academy]Settle down for a nice long sleep folks.
Prodi is the best sleeping pill I've ever known.[/quote]

Well, I really haven't researched his policies, but have come to the conclusion that that's the best quality for a politician. As boring as possible. The rest of them love grandstanding too much. Politicians have such inflated egos that it might be nice to have one that just gets on with it.

[quote=Licciana]Well, I really haven't researched his policies, but have come to the conclusion that that's the best quality for a politician. As boring as possible. The rest of them love grandstanding too much. Politicians have such inflated egos that it might be nice to have one that just gets on with it.[/quote]

Methinks he won't be able to get on with it. Not many politicians are keen on pushing through the reforms that are necessary, especially when there is a longstanding history of political divide even among members of the same coalition. They should have all voted for Gabibbo:)

Charles Gabibbo would have got my vote too !!
What gets me is that Prodi was kicked out of government by D'alema and here he is bouncong back as premier!!!
Hope he gets a tapiro d'oro soon!!

[QUOTE=Dream Academy]So now it's official!!! Half of Italy are c******i!!!!
Settle down for a nice long sleep folks.
Prodi is the best sleeping pill I've ever known.
Didn't have a vote but it would have gone to Fini.
Interesting to see that Provenzano was captured today!!!
Did he come back to vote Prodi knowing that he'll be out in a couple of months?
Provenzano out in a couple of months I mean!!!
Magari Prodi out too!!![/QUOTE]

So really what you are saying is berlo should have been given another 5
years, to do what he promised to do 5 years ago?

Now that would have made half of Italy c******i

[QUOTE=giovanni]So really what you are saying is berlo should have been given another 5
years, to do what he promised to do 5 years ago?

Now that would have made half of Italy c******i[/QUOTE]

I'm personally a proud c*****one and realize that not much is going to change now, but at least he's out for some time:D

P.s. The "scossa di terremoto" last night here in Ancona was baaaad!

[quote=Charles Joseph]Methinks he won't be able to get on with it...[/quote]
I agree that whoever takes over will probably have a very difficult time of it. I suspect the ruling coalition will break down before too long.

I was just responding to those voices I keep coming across who claim they wouldn't vote for Prodi because he's boring. But surely that's not a valid reason on which to base a choice for voting. Look at where those politicians with "charisma" have got us.

Not only because he's boring bit also been thrown out in the past for being useless!!!
Berlo needed more time to undo the damage done by the commies .
Rome wasn't built in a day but my god did they manage to wreck a country.
I just feel that Prodi is an idiot (ok many politicians are ) but sit back and let's watch how many illegal immigrants can now breath a sigh of relief and fill our country with crime.
Let's watch prices soar.
I take heart because I'm sure he will not last.

I think it is really interesting how Mr. B is now up for a grand coalition. You would think that someone who just four days ago was likening his opponents to stalin and hitler would be a bit more hesitant in working with them... or is it that Provenzano's fate is getting him scared!

......I agree, the grand coalition seems the last gasp of a man who's mind recognises that he's lost, but his ego still can't comprehend life without it!

I got the imporession that in the dying days of the elections his actions/policies were becoming more & more desperate/ad hoc, but this seems the actions of a dying swan.

..........how long Podi will last with such a shaky seeming coalition is another matter(!)

[QUOTE=Dream Academy]Not only because he's boring bit also been thrown out in the past for being useless!!!
Berlo needed more time to undo the damage done by the commies .
Rome wasn't built in a day but my god did they manage to wreck a country.
I just feel that Prodi is an idiot (ok many politicians are ) but sit back and let's watch how many illegal immigrants can now breath a sigh of relief and fill our country with crime.
Let's watch prices soar.
I take heart because I'm sure he will not last.[/QUOTE]

Those illegal immigrants are already there, as is the crime and prices are soaring. Italy today is far more expensive than it was even 2 or 4 or 6 years ago.

Come on Sano Italy is more expensive because everyone jumped onto the Euro bandwagon and doubled their prices. It was easier and quicker to say 10.000 lire = 10 euro rather than take the long way round and divide by 1936.27 !!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Berlusconi lover but hate the way the left wing always want to defend illegal immigrants. Any move by the present government to stem this problem was met by cries of outrage by the opposition.
AN for me.
Will be interesting to see if Tony B will be so friendly with Prodi!!!!
Perhaps he will find him just a bit too red for his liking!!!

From today's paper -

Marc Ostwald, an economist at Monument Securities, said Italian bonds were now a one-way bet.

"What we're seeing is more credit discrimination within the eurozone, and there's a risk that the spreads could widen further to at least 40 basis points," he said.

"We're looking at political paralysis. I fear that Italy is not going to face up to start reform until they reach the point of genuine crisis," he said.

Rome has squandered the windfall benefits of joining the euro, which shaved 6pc of GDP off annual interest costs. It has put off reform and reverted to inflationary habits.

Italian unit labour costs have soared over 40pc since 1995, while costs have fallen in France and Germany, according to a study by HSBC.

In effect, Italy is now chronically overvalued against the rest of the eurozone, with no way out.

The result has been a collapse of Italian exports, still reliant on textiles, shoes and furniture, which compete directly with China. Growth was zero in 2005, after 12 sluggish years.

"It is hard to exaggerate the scale of economic problems. The trend growth has collapsed. If nothing is done, we suspect that the underlying growth rate could actually turn negative within 10 to 15 years," the bank said.

HSBC says Italy's plight is now so dire that it might benefit from leaving the euro, a move that would trigger a major crisis but allow the economy to find the right exchange rate.

While interest rates would spike, the effect would be cushioned by a transfer of extra income to Italian savers, who own most of the public debt. Foreign holders would nurse the big losses, since treasury bonds would probably be switched into devalued lire.

Bernard Connolly, global strategist at Banque AIG and ex-head of economic research at the European Commission, said Italy was now in a worse state than Argentina in the late 1990s before it was forced off the dollar peg.

He said booming global growth and a weaker euro had given Italy a brief reprieve since last summer, when the crisis was bad enough to prompt two Italian ministers to call for a return to the lira. But the underlying picture was still becoming grimmer by the month.

Mr Connolly said it would be almost impossible for Italy to claw back lost ground through "disinflation", since such a policy would lead to rising real interest rates, mass defaults and an upward spiral in public debt. Even if such austerity could be imposed, it would be self-defeating, he said.

He said Italy would muddle through for now but may be forced out of monetary union in coming years unless Germany offers a lifeline by tolerating higher inflation - an unlikely outcome.

"It will drag on until we see grinding recession and the sheer hopelessness of it becomes obvious. Then bond spreads will widen dramatically," he said.

[QUOTE=Dream Academy]Come on Sano Italy is more expensive because everyone jumped onto the Euro bandwagon and doubled their prices. It was easier and quicker to say 10.000 lire = 10 euro rather than take the long way round and divide by 1936.27 !!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Berlusconi lover but hate the way the left wing always want to defend illegal immigrants. Any move by the present government to stem this problem was met by cries of outrage by the opposition.
AN for me.
Will be interesting to see if Tony B will be so friendly with Prodi!!!!
Perhaps he will find him just a bit too red for his liking!!![/QUOTE]

It is not the only reason for the increase in prices. There is a rip off culture emerging in Italy that would do Ireland proud.

I think it would be worth waiting to see what Prodi can do before dismissing him. I am not comfortable with the communist element in his government either but we have lived with that spectre within the ANC government for the past 10 years and it seems to have worked (by and large).

Will be interesting to see if Tony B will be so friendly with Prodi!!!!
Perhaps he will find him just a bit too red for his liking!!![/quote]

All depends on whether Romano has a nice pad for TB to use for his Italian holidays...:D

Non vedo cosa ci sia da preoccuparsi , il governo prodi cadra'
dopo un indigestione , o un raffreddore , o un bicchierino di troppo ,
e non c'e' da dimenticare che in italia molti senatori vanno a caccia ,
tra loro sicuramente si nasconde qualche " francio tiratore " ::))

Ugo

[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]From today's paper -