3418 L'assassinio di La Sirena

I sympathise - and agree - with your post, and I have tried to get through to Aliena that she is an important, intelligent, honest, frank, useful contributor - but she has basically constructed her own noose by attempting to post (and she knew that any post she attempted wouldn't get through without prior examination by a moderator) messages which SHE KNEW would never be accepted from any contributor.
She (in my opinion) is trying to conduct a valid campaign against "nannyism", but she is doing this by effectively threatening the moderators with mega provocative stuff which they cannot let through. Her strategy is poor - and I am surprised that she is pursuing it, and not surprised that she has been banned. Unfortunately I don't think she has the personality to grovel to the administrators and say sorry - but that is her loss, as well as ours.
She has perhaps forgotten the very good things which she did - like the quiz nights, the welcoming messages to simple members who would appreciate a friendly hello, the sharp cutting genuine advice she would give - and is focussed now on shafting the mods and webmaster.
A great shame - but la Sirena was never a candidate for a diplomatic position!! I will e-mail her this - because in her banned situation she probably cannot access the circolo - which is kind of bizarre because I think she campaigned for the existence of the Circolo, and the Chatroom. But that's life.

Sadly you're spot on, Relaxed.

While I enjoyed most of her posts, being most helpful and witty, for once she's gone too far - and she was fully aware of it. It's really sad that she had to run into trouble face on ... :(

I was hoping to see more of the 'old' Aliena after her return but it wasn't to be.

Iona - I hear what you are saying - but when you say "it wasn't to be" that makes it sound a bit terminally final on your part!
Let us wait a little while, and maybe she can be persuaded to pursue her campaigns (alongside doing her more appreciated helpful tasks) with greater diplomacy. As I have said before, I do not envy you or Ronald being in the position of being "in charge" of us hooligans - but you build the playground, you can't really get away with picking the playmates!

What happened? Why was Aliena banned?

I have also had contact with Aliena and she has told me she has been banned, a message was sent to her by Ronald, I cannot understand for the life of me understand why..... Aliena has been away for two weeks, so has not been on forum, I know before that she was being moderated harshly,because of an episode in the chat room, so what has happened since she has returned to warrant a ban? as far as I can see Aliena only did one post today, nothing that could possibly upset or offend anybody, so is there going to be some sort of explanation from you guys at the top? sometimes I just dont understand why you want everybody on this forum to behave like clones, all the same, what has happened to the all the characters that use to be here, you cant honestly believe that they have left or dont post because Aliena had an answer for everything, or because she was at the centre of any dissagreement, she was good for this forum, and I think its a great loss that she is no longer here with us, SO WHY

Sue I've sent you a PM.

re poor Aliena

Hey, what's happened? what have I missed here? I'm completely "gobsmacked" to coin a phrase.

[LEFT][quote=andy s]Liar.... Having e-mailed to say hi, I can confirm that Aliena is definately under the impression she has been banned.

If this is the case you should say so. What you have done in the post above is flower this up and put it so diplamatically, it has become a blatent lie..

Hopefully you will take this post in the spirit that it is meant. Although I expect that if you do you'll ban me and then post some flowery rubbish about 'unfortunately it wasn't to be!!!'

Andy[/quote]

I'm not particularly keen on getting involved in this childish nonsense, but I feel quite strongly about the above post and have to respond. In short, I think you're totally out of order and I think an apology is required asap.
Iona is nothing but pleasant and helpful to everyone on this forum and a liar she most definitely is not. I mean, you've flowered up your own post, for god's sake! Look at Iona's original post. The word 'unfortunately' doesn't even appear there! Quite significant within the context, don't you think? Sort it out.

I feel people are jumping to conclusions here without knowing the full facts and viciously attacking certain members. I, for one, would like to know what the reasons are behind Sano now choosing to leave! Anyone?
Is this forum so important in your lives that you have to get angry and abuse [almost] complete strangers defending an [almost] complete stranger when you don't, completely, know what's happened? Illogical!

[/LEFT]

To be quite honest (yes, honest!), Andy, I don't care if you believe me or not. I am sad about seeing Aliena banned, as she was a knowledgeable & helpful forum member - but also (in her own words) somewhat opinionated. It was for something that happened behind the scenes. Hence you don't know about it. You can ask her direct what happened if you want to. I'm sure you got her details.

Can I also remind you that we're not taking sides but rather watch both sets of antagonists!

End of story!

Or, to put it another way.....

When you're feeling so important, and your ego is in bloom
When you simply take for granted you're the wisest in the room.
When you think your very absence will leave a great big hole.
Just follow these instructions. They will humble any soul.

Take a bucket filled with water.
Put your hand in to the wrist.
Pull it out; the hole remaining is how much you will be missed.

Splash wildly when you enter.
Stir a lot and splash galore.
Then stop, and in a minute it will look just like before!

The moral of this story is to do the best you can.
Be proud, but please remember, There is NO Indispensable Man (or, woman)

sorry, can't quite remember who posted it first...

oh...will you stop doing that. I realize that you have to moderate the forum, but it is really iratating when you have spent ages answering someones email to find they have been deleted. It takes me a long time to write a post, my fingers always seem to work faster than my brain and by the time that has caught up my fingers are doing something else!! I thought moderators were supposed to moderate not delete people, sounds abit like the mafia.

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"]
Hi there its me....with my old wooden spoon!

I think I may have prompted Sano to leave coz I made a joke about a hilarious thread we once had...Puglia/Abruzzo remember? everytime I logged on I laughed myself silly...sorry I must be really easy to amuse!

There are lots of people here of different 'types'...please let them express themselves in their own way! I'm so totally fed up, bored, infuriated by all the moderator's on this forum leaping in on every occasion....are they primary school teachers or even life coaches perhaps?

Aliena seems to have appeared on the expats forum.I think I'll join there too.Remeber the cement boots?

Becky[/SIZE][/FONT]

Quote: There are lots of people here of different 'types'...please let them express themselves in their own way!

Becky,

Just wondering if you'd agree to have people swearing at you indiscriminately? So far it hasn't happened to me direct, but there are several members on here who do have a go at each other.

We have to sit on the fence between them and get slagged off from both sides. You can't win... And while we can all handle a bit of criticism, I'm sure Cristina wouldn't allow swearing & accusations on her forum either.

You want my 'job' for the day?? ;)

S

No, it's just a poem, I think it was posted when Adriatica left because he was sick of the bickering and nastiness, and was posted, I think to illustrate how much the forum would change at the loss of a member.

Aliena was banned because on her return she posted what I can only describe as "violent" remarks against others members and the moderators. Her reasoning was that since the post is moderated it was OK for her to be quite liberal with swearing and with attacking another person. To give you an idea of the level of anger expressed by Aliena this is her reply to my message saying that following such a violent post she is banned.

I feel embarassed posting this but I suppose an explanation is in order.

------------------

"The following message was sent to you via the Italy Magazine Forums Contact Us form by Aliena.

--------------------------------

>Deal Aliena,
>
>I am afraid that we will have to ban you from the forum. The message you >posted regarding Lavender Field and the language you used is unnaceptable,
>
>All the moderators agree so there is little else to say.
>
>All the best,
>
>Ronald

-------------------------------

Aliena's response:

Whoop di ****ing do! A decision at last! Albeit a weak one as that message was NOT supposed to get through was it Ronni? In fact.. did I not state that within the message body?

And by the way.. exactly which part of "shut the f*ck up" is unacceptable in a message that was not meant to get through but was to draw attention to at least the Mods and you that this woman is a dangerous liar?

Come on Ronni.. you can do better than that.. even for you.. murdering Aliena for telling the truth is weak.. but the style suits you!

Whatever else you think.. however much headache you think I give you.. I know you know what I'm talking about.. and I know you know I am honest.. which is more than can be said for some here innit?

Go ahead.. do me the biggest favour.. murder Aliena.. she was fun.. and I was right.. you are afraid.. and you are a w****r!

:D :D

--------------------------------

Referring Page: index.php
IP Address: 195.93.21.7
User Name: Aliena
User ID: 1047"

So there is really little else to say.

[QUOTE=Iona]Quote: Just wondering if you'd agree to have people swearing at you indiscriminately? So far it hasn't happened to me direct, but there are several members on here who do have a go at each other.
S[/QUOTE]
Point of interest. I found out you can not actually swear on the forum, maybe you all knew, but I didn't. I wrote ...... arrgh it is not going to work is it. Right. You know what you say when you hear someone complaining? something to do with female dog? Got me? Well... I would not call that swearing exactley, but of course now I am starting to think what else would be automatically cut?:D

P.S. Don't worry I am not going to start!;)

George - I think you meant to say how little a forum would change at the loss of a member? Or I am completely misunderstanding your meaning?

I can't say that reflects very well on you Ronald. But can I say that, knowing that it won't get posted?

[QUOTE=Relaxed]George - I think you meant to say how little a forum would change at the loss of a member? Or I am completely misunderstanding your meaning?[/QUOTE]
Maybe the meaning is the same, maybe not, it could be one of lifes great imponderables, too deep for me at the moment, russian about too much...

Think predictive text mesaging, what you want to say is %&*%, but it comes out as *%&% - a real bummer :)

I'm sorrrry Ronald,
I did find it a tiny...a little..the smallest bit funny. I take the point it was not aimed at me and I know I have not be on this forum very long, also that the magazine must keep a good image. But I have seen people ranting and raving in posts and no ban, why Aliana? Swearing? As I just put in a post, swearing seems to be cut automatically(can you do something about the spelling? mine is terrible:( )
I find that if you ignore someone they will go away, it is only the people that need to have the last word, that will keep these thing going.

It really isn't meant to be funny Mark and Aliena does not want to either cool it or just go away. In the space of a couple of hours this morning she created three different accounts through which to post on the forum. Now, anyone dedicating this much time to do something like and that can express so much anger towards a person they have never seen in such a way is really best trying to find a different space to express herseld and not a forum on Italy.

Thankfully the web is full of spaces for expression.

so let me get this right, actual swearing is not allowed, but known derogartives are? ie. eye tie/eye tires!

i think you mods are using double standards....well done.

so what next?

Will this forum be one for amatuers, to give advice to amatures?
or will it be a case of misleading people.

moderators, moderate.
dictators on the otherhand dictate, which keeps a few happy...........

swearing is the least of the problems giovanni (although always a problem)- it is really the revealing symptom. What is the worrying part is that one person would talk to another person with such violence.

We have established some rules and are applying them - that's all. You were all invited to read the rules and I [URL="http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php"]invite you to do so again[/URL].

They are not particularly harsh rules and you will not find any forum from a serious organisation (e.g. the BBC) that has different rules. In fact ours are based on theirs.

If that counts as a dictatoriship in your book then there is little I can do to convince you otherwise.

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="2"]Ronald

Just read the rules again and I'd like to ask about what you call [B]trolling![/B]It seems to cover my area of concern where some members and moderators are editing or removing threads and issuing warnings for what I would describe as a bit of playful leg pulling .....AGAIN I must bring up the Puglia/Abruzzo thread.

I do appreciate that nasty and cruel insults should not be allowed but surely it is up to the moderators to make sure that they are only deleting /blocking this type of post rather that a bit of gentle banter? I have known Giovanni to be a bit on the tetchy side on some of my postings but it doesn't worry me in the least and I like the fact that some members are a bit 'outspoken' ...as I said these threads can get a bit obsessional so i'm shutting up now![/SIZE][/FONT]Becky

[QUOTE=ronald]swearing is the least of the problems giovanni (although always a problem)- it is really the revealing symptom. What is the worrying part is that one person would talk to another person with such violence.

We have established some rules and are applying them - that's all. You were all invited to read the rules and I [URL="http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/faq.php"]invite you to do so again[/URL].

They are not particularly harsh rules and you will not find any forum from a serious organisation (e.g. the BBC) that has different rules. In fact ours are based on theirs.

If that counts as a dictatoriship in your book then there is little I can do to convince you otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Ronald, you will not catch me out that easy tonight.

I was not speaking souly about rules, but our rights as individuals to read
and express ourselfs.

Everyone has rules, but dictatorships take away your rights to read and
express one self, without fear of persicution. ok its not that bad, but
with you having the power to delete threads and ban people, and the fact
that untill someone challenges the mods to explain something, nothing is
posted by the mods,and once all the posts have been deleted the members
have no way of knowing the full picture of events.

would you not say, thats a bit heavy handed?

and back to aliena, when you banned her did you inform her it was for a
week,or a month. or was it for ever? if so that was heavy handed and
what sort of response would you give to someone who had just banned you
forever? [if that was the case]

yes you are right, there are 2 sides to every story, but we only get one!

I have stayed away from the forum lately because of the way it was heading but seeing the number of folk who have stood up for Aliena and spoken out against small-mindedness I feel encouraged...

I have said it before and I will say it again Giovanni is the voice of reason and Ronald and you moderators should take heed. When the dissidents were kicking up fuss a while back Giovanni decided to take a back seat because he did not agree entirely with the dissidents' views and he wanted to give the new moderators a sporting chance.

But G. has the most atuned sense of fair play of anybody I know - By Lord he could almost be an Englishman (irony). Anyway, from previous of his posts we learnt he may have acquired this at the hands of English boys in the school playground.

More the pity that Aliena wasn't there at the time - they would have made a formidable duo fending off the jibes about reverse gears and white flags.

Each time we have a fight like this at the forum a new literary giant comes to mind, first it was Orwell then Kafka and now with talk of dissidents, red books and damming details remaining private I am reminded of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

I know a number of forum members and some moderators would like an anodyne forum where everyone agrees that things look better through rose tinted glasses but after Adriatica, Andy, Aliena, Avvocato et al have left there will come Badriatica, Bandy, Ballbreaker and Baccardo to rock the boat.

So as our dear friend Notaio once suggested: we should see this forum as an extended family and try to deal with difficult situations as might a close-knit family and not the dysfunctional one we have become of late.

We could start with Ronald and all the modeators offering a virtual/cyber hug to all the dissidents by inviting them back into the fold with a tag of Prodigal child.

(BTW where is notaio?)

Bravo..Bravo

Notaio is on holiday I believe.
Stodge we know the forum will never change, how many have we seen come and go. The problem lies with the organisation, there never was any and then when it came it was too late!

Pace everyone - pace. Do you realise you all sound like a lot of school kids isquabbling in the school yard. Grow up for goodness sake & try & make the forums sensible instead of slanging matches. Grr. Grr.

[QUOTE=Rina]Pace everyone - pace. Do you realise you all sound like a lot of school kids isquabbling in the school yard. Grow up for goodness sake & try & make the forums sensible instead of slanging matches. Grr. Grr.[/QUOTE]

If i am treated like a school child, then how can i not act like one.
Yet if i am treated like an adult, i will act as one....

By kicking up a little, ronald, has found the time to at least explain some of
the going ons here,alas not all.

Yet your statement rina, makes very little sense! because on this thread,the
members are asking the mods what exactly has happened, as we are in the
dark.
this is nothing what so ever like children squabbling, as we are mostly in
agreement.
Now your statement on the otherhand,answers nothing, and asks nothing!
infact if anything it could be classed as a catalist for exactly what you are
claiming has already happened.

leaf and book come to mind.

ronald. i ask again.
when aliena was banned, was this in the first instance a weeks ban or months ban, or a total ban forever.
And i don't mean after she had replied to the ban.

You see in life, people can loose their driving license, for a time.
They can commit a crime and go to prison, for a long or short time.

So i would think a life time ban for something no where as serious,as the above,would be strange... in the first instance.....

How about probation???
Nataio called us a family and whose family is perfect? I don't like nastiness but can we afford to lose those who have good insight and helpfulness about living in Italy? No one hurts you as much as your family or disappoints you more. Unfortunately many seem to think being interesting or ironic means being provocative or mean but I'm still for amnesty. I wrote a long - too long - piece elsewhere on this subject.
I love and appreciate the site and hope it doesn't just descend into squabbles because there are so many of us that desperately need good, practical advice.
Can't you give our difficulat brothers and sisters another chance? don't we all deserve that? We all get crazy or angry sometimes but everyone is at heart a caring human being. Maybe we are to blame for not better defending those attacked.
sarah

Exactly. Lets all grow up, and play nice...but then who is the correct person to say that my statement should be published, or acceptable?

I've been out for a while on holiday and now that I'm back, I find that my fears have come true.
So Aliena, as expected, has been banned.
I do not want to write here her "obituary", because she's alive and kicking somewhere, but, as far as it matters, I only want to say I consider her a friend of mine, if it is possible to call "friend" a virtual person.
She was (is) a sort of scugnizzo.
Scugnizzo is a neapolitan word for "street boy".
A scugnizzo is normally very clever, smart and.....fast
He could teach you the secrets of life or, with the same ability, he could steal your money from your pockets, sneacking away and monking your dumb face.
Scugnizzi are not easy to handle, sometimes you love them, sometimes you just want to kill them in a very painful way.
So was (is) Aliena for this forum.
She is the prodigal and propelling person that so much helped the threads, without hidden purposes, nothing to sell and nothing to gain, but she's the same person that has gone too.....fast, not being able to bite her tongue before it was too late.
I told her she was misbehaving (that's what friends must do), but it was too late.
Now she's gone and, as said here before, nobody is so important and the forum will keep on working as usual.
In Italy we say: "morto un Papa, se ne fa un altro" - "when the Pope days, another one will be made Pope".
This is true, but nobody prevents us (or me at least) to say that a Pope is better than another and that we miss him.
Meanwhile, and waiting for the new Pope, all I can say is that all this situation is sad
and sad
and sad
and sad

[COLOR=black][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]notaio, you are such a clever man, even furbo. Stupid as it may seem but you brought tears to my eyes. You have managed to say in English no less, what I have been struggling to find the words to say. Yes Aliena was everything you say and more she did have a big heart underneath the hard exterior and helped many in many different ways. As her friends we did all try to help but the creation of Aliena was not all down to the person behind the keyboard. The scugnizzo was given the freedom, encouraged and when things got tough even took the blame for others. Aliena's demise was not all of her own doing and the situation could/should have been avoided, but thats misguided power for you.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

Bravo Notaio but as you rightly point out she is still alive in person and it is only the virtual version that has ben killed off. I am still hoping that "moderation" will be the order of the day and she will be invited back as the prodigal one.

[QUOTE=notaio]
In Italy we say: "morto un Papa, se ne fa un altro" - "when the Pope dies, another one will be made Pope".
[/QUOTE]

In the Anglican faith the monarch is the head of the church so on the death of a King or Queen the chant is "the Queen is dead long live the King!"

It won't happen stodge, too much water under the bridge. Need to move on and use the forum for the purpose it is here for and it's not impossible to keep in touch for those that wish to. :)

I agree with the mods. If you do not want to play by the rules then you should be banned!! I stopped posting a while back ago because it was getting to the point that I was tempted to personalize attacks against certain members. A cooling off period was needed. So I took a sabatical from posting.

Ronald you did good!!

Frank

Ha, if only everyone knew the truth! :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]Ha, if only everyone knew the truth! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

BUT, which "TRUTH" would you want, the "TRUTH" where an innocent who spoke against the tyranny of the management of the forum was hounded into obscurity by the thought police...
OR
the "TRUTH" where a member of the forum who insisted on mounting personalised attacks on other forum members using the most unacceptable of language in Private Messages, e mails and direct postings on an open forum was banned from posting, but only after having been both warned and counselled, having been asked very politely to change, having been asked (not banned) to refrain from posting, having, after further breaches been placed on pre moderated posting, then, finally, after the selfsame poster used the pre moderated posting situation to bate the moderation team, administrator and still abuse violently other posters...
There are a number of people out there who know from bitter experience that the latter "TRUTH" exists, however, many of them no longer visit the forum, and, I suspect that those who still visit the forums regularly find the experience too distasteful to make any comment, and, having read some of the messages sent to them by the banned member, I, for one understand their position.

But was she destroyed, or did she destroy herself?

And is she really gone, or did she ever exist ;)

George, drop it....it's done.

George, You have missed the point, none of this should/would have happened in the first place if the situation had been handled at the very begining.
If a person is treated to be special, allowed freedom, has influence but then the situation is reversed completly, anger does set in.
You of all people should know, were a few of your posts in the past not very abusive, did you yourself not make a stand about situations that upset you and yet you returned as a hero for many, even me, but now you are not the george we all knew from the past.
Don't push me George to say more because the forum is too valuable and this should stop but when I read praise about recent events when I know the truth it makes me very angry too!
I knew way back but no one listened.

TMF, drop it....it's done.

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]There are a number of people out there who know from bitter experience that the latter "TRUTH" exists, however, many of them no longer visit the forum, and, I suspect that those who still visit the forums regularly find the experience too distasteful to make any comment, and, having read some of the messages sent to them by the banned member, I, for one understand their position.[/QUOTE]

Your totally right George, some of us didn't leave but chose to lay low for a while and make ourselves invisible (then was accused of creaping around in the dark). I've made quite a few valued friends on this site to be hounded away. ;)

And everyone else behaved impeccably throughout all of this.
More than one side to every story, just that others are more deceitful about it.

[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]But was she destroyed, or did she destroy herself?

And is she really gone, or did she ever exist ;)[/QUOTE]

Blimey Tinks, did you watch The Matrix last night? Maybe we are all virtual and she that cannot be named has gone back into the real world.

Funny that we still use all of her nicknames she gave a lot of people)

I for one will miss her caustic humour.

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"]I read Ailena's very considered and moderate post on the expats in italy forum...thanks Cristina. It told me exactly what I wanted to know and I was able to weigh up carefully both sides of the argument she refered to.In the end I feel that I agree with her.

It seems crazy to me that the post could not have appeared on this forum as so many of us had followed the 'Negligent Agents' thread.

Notaio I'm so relieved youre still here as I feel so many 'friends' are not here anymore.

Becky[/SIZE][/FONT]

It was the late lamented andyS who posted it first

[quote=Jig]Whilst you may miss 'her ' caustic humour and there is an on going 'head rolls 'thread....I know Im not the only one who is aware of the new x3 (or more personas)created by our 'friend'. True to form,but only posting about 50% less than usual as one person, as three different people ...more than double!:)

So maybe now we can all finally move on ....and enjoy and embrace the new creations as they are so well informed and for the time being are playing nicely;)

Spring is in the air (for now)!

As usual am putting on a hard hat !:D[/quote]
Have you got your hard hat on? I really don't like hypocrites so it's a shame you can't just drop it and move on. Remember I was there too, have seen everything! Could put all infomation in post if you like.