3440 Mod free zone

Good idea Relaxed - I was under the impression however that the 'Circolo' WAS set up for just that purpose. A place where people COULD let off steam and voice opinions on any subject, however non PC. I was also under the impression that it would be a 'mod' free zone and a 'if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen' type of place. Was I wrong?

Well - good point - and in fact I don't think I have ever been aware of anything "moderated" in this bit of the forum - but it is not advertised as free for all, and certainly not "marketed" as a place "where you can let off steam without worries".
Let's see what others have to say!!
What I can tell you though is that the online chat room is moderated, and if a Christian throws itself at the lions in there and gets mauled, one of the lions gets "moderated" when the Christian runs crying to mummy mod - that happens.

alas, i would have to disagree,sorry.
Its still part of this forum, and as such would need moderating,so we didn't
get the forum into trouble.

From a personel piont of view, the thought that someone was slagging me off, when my back was turned so to speak....well that would really piss me off
[ is that allowed or is it classed as swearing] ?

this area works/worked fine as a play area,more so than an out and out fight
area.......

Pissed and slagged are obviously okay - so is bummer! Shall we try and push the envelope and find a list of "okay" rude words!!

My proposal is that so long as it is made crystal clear to anyone who gets through the portals that they are in an unmoderated bit of the forum (and this circolo is not visible to unregistered members) then it is a free for all. Can't see a prob. And if anyone was slagging you off, you could take a deep breath, dive in, and defend yourself - so it would hardly be behind your back.
At the same time, I agree with you it should be a play area, but it seems that there is an unfulfilled requirement for an out and out boxing ring, and unless we have one useful people are going to desert. Bolshies - yes - but the bolshies are not all bad!

[QUOTE=Relaxed]Pissed and slagged are obviously okay - so is bummer! Shall we try and push the envelope and find a list of "okay" rude words!!

My proposal is that so long as it is made crystal clear to anyone who gets through the portals that they are in an unmoderated bit of the forum (and this circolo is not visible to unregistered members) then it is a free for all. Can't see a prob. And if anyone was slagging you off, you could take a deep breath, dive in, and defend yourself - so it would hardly be behind your back.
At the same time, I agree with you it should be a play area, but it seems that there is an unfulfilled requirement for an out and out boxing ring, and unless we have one useful people are going to desert. Bolshies - yes - but the bolshies are not all bad![/QUOTE]

What i really mean,is that there are alot of members who do not use this
area. So they could be being slagged off, and not know it,or until it was
pionted out to them.

They maybe non confrontational types, so would it be fare on them?

I know there are a lot of us who can take it and give it, but still you have to
give some protection to those others who would not or could not.

thats why i believe you still need someone policing..........

EG...

someone breaks into my house, the police report would read they feel down my stairs..... but what about the little old lady next door... she doesn't have
the strength to help them fall down the stairs... so hopefully good policing
would help protect her.........hopefully...

Well - your analogy is fair - but I honestly don't think that the "little old lady" would be "attacked" (in words, remember - not physically) unless she had laid herself open to being the subject of a discussion.
In my "dream version" of an unmoderated forum I think that if someone came in and said "what a looney" that poster on the such and such thread is - someone else, hoping to pick an argument, would be just as likely to say "they have a point, and you are wrong you idiot" as to say - yes, you are right they are looney. But we should be able to have these discussions, in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Relaxed]...This circolo was billed as "ungoogleable" when it was first started - why cannot it be unmoderated?....[/QUOTE]

If we're into "why Nots", then why can't it be [b]outside[/b] the forum?

The moderators (like it or lump it) control the forum......if you don't like the landlord, switch pubs!

That's also a fair point - but as I said in my first line - I would like to find a solution which will make everybody happy (am I searching for the Holy Grail here!!). And I have not yet received any substantial objections which could not be overcome.
If "we" or "they" force all controversial posts out of any part of the forums, then we lose a number of seriously important intelligence resources - like notaio. I think that is a loss to the whole forum community - don't you? So my notion is to have a boxing ring bit where there are no holds barred, and the inviolability of individual liberty and free speech is upheld, and just maybe this will resolve the issues which are arising in people's minds just now.

[QUOTE=Relaxed]..... So my notion is to have a boxing ring bit where there are no holds barred.....[/QUOTE]

Hold on! If you want a boxing ring, then get your own fight club, where we don't have to watch, listen or feign interest.

I was embued in Yourskhire lore many years ago & one lesson that stayed with me was "If you don't like it, yer can f**k off!"

I suspect we've had enough folk doing that [i]off[/i]ing recently whilst many protagonsists remain claiming the moral high-ground, the virtues of free speech & all the same tosh that is used by the English gutter press to justify their tirades. Maybe the wrong members are leaving.......

I say again...........

If you don't like it, "Go forth......"

I'm happy to set you up (free of charge) an identical forum to this at [url]www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com[/url] & you can all live in peace (or whatever you call peace).

Who wants one?
Anyone?
It'll be free.

....it'll cost me very little & for the peace & tranquility it'll give 'the rest of us' it's worth while.

I suspect that as most seem to want to strut their intelligence, preen their egos & have others glory in the sun shining out of their backsides, to have a separate forum will not satisfy thier own, selfish desires.

Get over with it & play nicely with the other children or naff off.

That's me done......phew!

I feel better.........now I just need to check that [url]www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com[/url] is still free, just in case......

Now, a nice cup of fruit tea as my ears have gone all red.........

I rarely post ......but I might begin now...that was a trully fabulous post Tuscanhills!
All the things I thought but never dared to say!:o
I dont have a clue who some of these people are ...and I dont care much...isnt this just a forum about Italy ???:confused:

You have made my point perfectly, tuscanhills.

You don't want to watch fisticuffs - you don't go to where the fight is being held.

But that doesn't mean that you have the right to ban a fisticuffs arena - just because you personally don't fancy the blood and guts!! (And as I mentioned in a reply to giovanni, we are not talking about physical violence here - you cannot send a real punch via your internet connection). However, at the moment the moderators do have the right to leap in a bit quickly even into an arena where grown "men" have chosen to enter into verbal combat, and I hope that they "the landlords" might consider allowing a cock fighting pit - sort of behind the gents - where no one of delicate sensibilities would ever dream of entering.

[quote=Relaxed]Pissed and slagged are obviously okay - so is bummer! Shall we try and push the envelope and find a list of "okay" rude words!!

My proposal is that so long as it is made crystal clear to anyone who gets through the portals that they are in an unmoderated bit of the forum (and this circolo is not visible to unregistered members) then it is a free for all. Can't see a prob. And if anyone was slagging you off, you could take a deep breath, dive in, and defend yourself - so it would hardly be behind your back.
At the same time, I agree with you it should be a play area, but it seems that there is an unfulfilled requirement for an out and out boxing ring, and unless we have one useful people are going to desert. Bolshies - yes - but the bolshies are not all bad![/quote]

Relaxed my dear, It's all been said before.

Ah - but you know trullo - there is the expression "never say die", and I can be a bit like a rottie with a juicy bone....and I can't see any techical or legal reasons why there shouldn't be a completely unmoderated portion of the forum. Just a portion - a teensy wensy bit! Can't we live dangerously?

[QUOTE=Relaxed]...But that doesn't mean that you have the right to ban a fisticuffs arena.....[/QUOTE]

I accept that; that is the role of the mods & one they seem to be doing. You now need to accept that if the mods make a decision, you should abide by it & not bleat incessently like a petulant teenager about the fact that "it's sooo unfair, others can do it".

[QUOTE=Relaxed]...I hope that they "the landlords" might consider allowing a cock fighting pit....[/QUOTE]

There are enough cocks in the world; if you are one of them, would you like me to set up [url]www.CockFightingPit.com?[/url]

My offer stands....or are you too [i]chicken[/i] to have your own forum?

You seem to have entirely missed my point. I have supported the moderators (although criticising some of their decisions, rationally, in the open forum) throughout.
What I am suggesting is a limited, clearly signed, brand new if you like - though it would seem appropriate simply to adjust the circolo - area of the forum where the moderators are delighted never to even have the responsibility of entering.
Probably wouldn't work. Too much timidity about. And the "difficult" posters wouldn't be able to refrain from getting in on the mainstream threads. So goodbye adriatica, andyS, notaio - and, yes Aliena - goodbye to a useful informed resource - guess I'll just have to figure out how to talk yank and decamp across the virtual pond.

[QUOTE=Relaxed]Ah - but you know trullo - there is the expression "never say die", and I can be a bit like a rottie with a juicy bone....and I can't see any techical or legal reasons why there shouldn't be a completely unmoderated portion of the forum. Just a portion - a teensy wensy bit! Can't we live dangerously?[/QUOTE]

This is a commercial forum, which is seen as part of the Italy Magazine Organisation, there ARE legal reasons why it would not be possible to provide you with a "Fight Club", the moderation in this area is generally light to non existant, however, words typed in haste, with malice, can and do cause offence, the mental scars they leave are very real and, the forum is not set up to allow you, or any poster free rein to attack anyone.
Enjoy this section for what it is, read the introduction remarks by Ronald, but, remember, please treat one another with respect.
Pushing the envelope often causes the envelope to contract...

[LEFT]
Ditto! Nice one tuscanhills...!

'Can't we live dangerously?' - wot, [I]slagging other members off on an internet forum?? :confused:[/I]

Must tell my mate to stop base jumping and trade his gear in for a laptop! Done a 6 month stint in Basra? Forget about it. Get a laptop!

PS Nice to see you back Will.

[/LEFT]

entirely agree with mr tuscan hills

unable to find any yorkshire heritage in my ancestory but his sentiments are blissfully correct

as somone who is posting for the first time on this forum but who has read it for quite a while it seems to me that most want to treat it as an information and friendly chat place

what on earth is the point of having an area where you can abuse people

i suggest those that want that sort of place go elsewhere as elequontley put before

let this forum remain as a bastion of knowledge on italy, cut the throat of those that think they are bigger than the place and lets get over the inflated egos

there are some knowitalls around that want to take control over everything in life after five minutes good riddance to all those that think they are so clever they are above the rules and long live equilibrium and commonsense

i for one support the moderation and the right of this place to run its own house, if someone wants it to be a different house go build your own

What has one stumbled into? I'm not sure this is the place for me yet, but I certainly do not like the sentiments that I should be told to go away in quite such strong terms if I do not like it! Relaxed was making a suggestion and Tuscan Hills has attacked with the most atrocious language and instructions, which in turn have been supported by others.

Seems you already have the boxing ring and are ganging up. Perhaps this is not so balanced a place and a noble referee is required - immediately!

[quote=tuscanhills]Hold on! If you want a boxing ring, then get your own fight club, where we don't have to watch, listen or feign interest.

I was embued in Yourskhire lore many years ago & one lesson that stayed with me was "If you don't like it, yer can f**k off!"

I suspect we've had enough folk doing that [I]off[/I]ing recently whilst many protagonsists remain claiming the moral high-ground, the virtues of free speech & all the same tosh that is used by the English gutter press to justify their tirades. Maybe the wrong members are leaving.......

I say again...........

If you don't like it, "Go forth......"

I'm happy to set you up (free of charge) an identical forum to this at [URL="http://www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com"]www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com[/URL] & you can all live in peace (or whatever you call peace).

Who wants one?
Anyone?
It'll be free.

....it'll cost me very little & for the peace & tranquility it'll give 'the rest of us' it's worth while.

I suspect that as most seem to want to strut their intelligence, preen their egos & have others glory in the sun shining out of their backsides, to have a separate forum will not satisfy thier own, selfish desires.

Get over with it & play nicely with the other children or naff off.

That's me done......phew!

I feel better.........now I just need to check that [URL="http://www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com"]www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com[/URL] is still free, just in case......

Now, a nice cup of fruit tea as my ears have gone all red.........[/quote]

This is the whole point, as much as you may not like what has been going on, are you not being just as bad now? You see it will continue in one form or another because we are all people, people have opinions and at some point or another they get posted. So and so didn’t like that comment or so and so misunderstood. The mods step in but then upsets others because of over zealousness or to be honest in some cases taking power to the extreme, personal vendetta’s. It just goes on and to be honest I can not see it will change, has been going on ever since I joined, different people different disputes. It would be great if a happy medium could be reached, that it is possible to make a point without getting personal, it would be great if there were not so many hypocrites in the world, it would be great if those with power knew what they were dealing with and applied the same rules for everyone but we are all b****y human and things aint going to change. You see even I can not hold back my opinion, which would be the sensible thing to do because then no one can post an alternative point of view to mine. Even though I think there are problems within this forum to me it is too valuable to leave. So lump it or like it I'm still gonna say what I think and use the forum for info, that’s if there is anyone left that knows more than I have learnt from here already.

thomas

it seems that as if you do not like what relaxed suggests, the no holds barred type of approach

now if one were from yorkshire one might suggest in more succint terms that you should not have bothered joining or maybe posting but as it is one should refrain from this atrocious language and mr tuscan hills consider oneself chastised by one that considers noble referees just that

thankfully here i have noticed moderators are far from noble,thankfully and one might even suggest that if one places their hard earned money into setting up such a place as this which most of us enjoy then they might just have the say in how it is run

we enlist on this forum as members, we basically have an interest in italians and italy and things to do with it, when enlisting here, we read the rules, they are obvious and well stated, if we do not like them it just seems logical to use the forum to browse and not join, join and you are bound by the rules, so let members remain as members,and if they have been members for quite some time and have an idea on changing things then send a pm to the people that run the place, i think its un fair to expect them to keep defending the fact that they have set up this place, have made the rules and want it run in the way most of us do against postings such as this where a member that declares respect for them in a second paragraph then wants them to run in it in their own way, and theat member despite most probably being the highest average poster per day, has only been here in relative terms five minutes

if he had approached ronald with this suggestion or one of the moderators and it had been agreed to run a poll on this then yes i would agree that there might be something to be argued

i still support the sentiments of the hills man

Homer,

In relative terms you have been at the forum less than a nano-second but power to your elbo for picking up so much so quickly. I may not agree with what you write but I find it very interesing.

Good point Homer, we should all be able to deal with one another fairly and within the rules, in fairness though, until fairly recently there were fewer moderators and the rules were not expressly written and many of us (myself included) were guilty of impropriety, which resulted in the setting up of this section and later the rules and more moderators, most people seem to have no problem with the moderators, or the rules, however, most people simply get on with posting and ignore the arguments in this section, they therefor do not openly support the rules or moderators and are unawnre of the debate, or unwilling to engage in it.
Nuff said, enjoy the forum... Chelsea have just won BTW

OOOoooffff

Homer

Trojan wars may be a myth, but fact is Homer was Greek, not Italian, or perhaps my confusion has led me to believe your namesake is actually taken in honour of the Simpson family.

As I am sincerely unable to understand your reasoning or your post, due to a lack of puctuation, therefore, I will consider you a gentleman. I refer to Queensbury rules and abide by them. Please return to your corner and allow me the ten second recovery period.

Good day to you.

thomas

It is a good day, nice reply, in fact your right, my wifes name is marge, maybe we have something in common, one doesn't meet a Simpsons fan every day.

My suggestion to enable comprehension of my previous post, that is if you are interested is to copy it into a word processing programme which will be able to edit and add in punctuation and then re-read.

One also hopes you are having a very good day too.

See! What did I say, Homer and Thomas both new and it's started already!!! :D

When placing the bricks into your handbags for the next round, please make sure you close the bags tightly, we wouldn't want to hurt anyone accidentally while swinging would we :) ;) :)

OOOoooffff

....and out with the bad. Breathe deeply......

I might have got a bit out of order last night & feel I need to apologise; whilst I have PM'd Rel an apology, I feel it's due to the forum as a whole.

My frustration came from my concern for the fourm, the direction it was taking (again!) and the selfishness of some who wish to dictate, bully or consume threads......I recognise that I may have been guilty of doing the same too; again, my apologies.

I lumped all my frustrations at others on Relaxed's door & was guilty of venting on Relaxed who was only passing an opinion.

As a gentleman, I offer my hand, a blood stained handkerchief and a decent pint to both Homer and Tuscan Hills.

As an uncouth , beer swilling, overweight example of the worst of humanity(well at least mankind) , but with a heart of gold and a worriesome son i accept, as long as its not warm and flat and dark brown

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]See! What did I say, Homer and Thomas both new and it's started already!!! :D[/QUOTE]
Yes Trulli you was spot on,:) But I still think this section of the forum should only be available to members who have posted over a 100, purely because you have got to know each others personalities and you know who has a sense of humour, or other characteristics without offending them, I did suggest this to Ronald, but hey what do I know, :) ;)

There everyone is happy, well until the next time! Sorry been on here too long to not be cynical but I do mean it in jest before anyone gets upset again. :D

[CENTER][CENTER][COLOR=black]I have one further thing to say please can all those that have left for what ever reason return because whether everyone agrees or not your input is valuable to many and personally a loss to those of us that are interested. I'm not just talking about recent leavers but those from way back as well, one name I can think of was steve firth who had oodles of knowledge. If the frustration of the forum gets to you at times, don't let it get to you for ever, take a break and then return.[/COLOR][COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]To mention notaio's post again this is a family and we will fall out at times but so what! [/COLOR][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/CENTER][/CENTER]

[quote=FRANTIANI]Yes Trulli you was spot on,:) But I still think this section of the forum should only be available to members who have posted over a 100, purely because you have got to know each others personalities and you know who has a sense of humour, or other characteristics without offending them, I did suggest this to Ronald, but hey what do I know, :) ;)[/quote]

I have made similar and many other suggestions over the last six months. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=FRANTIANI]Yes Trulli you was spot on,:) But I still think this section of the forum should only be available to members who have posted over a 100, purely because you have got to know each others personalities and you know who has a sense of humour, or other characteristics without offending them, I did suggest this to Ronald, but hey what do I know, :) ;)[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I disagree. We joined the same month as you, but as I don't post a great deal, I would be denied access. Whereas you could have someone join who is a heavy poster and would be able to join in almost straight away. Just posting profusely does not necessarily mean you will have a better knowledge of the other members, just that you chat more!! Using length of membership seems much fairer.

JMHO

Jeff and Suzanne, I understand what you are saying, and to a certain degree you are right, but I have found interacting on the forum say with the regular posters where I can, you get to know them, and for me in my opinion it has helped me to know who I can reply a post to saying what I think without offending them, and in all honesty there are posters on here who I dont, because Ive seen how they react to other posters, this part of the forum sometimes has been like the lions den, and I feel for a new member who does not know the posters in it, could be quite daunting,I remember why this section was put here in the first place, most mainstream members stay upstairs in the main forum for serious topics about italy, I believe this was to be the playground, and were told to play nicely, well you know what children are like, they are children they are not angels , and they do not always play nicely, as I said in my previous post it was just a suggestion to Ronald, I really enjoy the main part of the forum and participate and help new or old members, where I can, but down in this section It is like a members club also we have the chat room, and sometimes all depends on whats being discussed and who is involved, I even tread carefully, because I know what the outcome will be, so I keep away, there is always another day :)

Really well put Frantiani - not only in the chat room, or the circolo, but there are also threads on the main forum where one tends to feel - "angels would fear to tread", and even devils would be chancing their arm (or pointy tail)!
We can all choose to enter, or not, into any thread, and if we don't like what we see in there we can beat a hasty retreat.

[QUOTE=will]ssssssssssssssss[/QUOTE]
What are you trying to say Will? Come on lad, sssssssssspit it out! :D

Really liked what you said trullo:
"I have one further thing to say please can all those that have left for what ever reason return because whether everyone agrees or not your input is valuable to many and personally a loss to those of us that are interested. I'm not just talking about recent leavers but those from way back as well, one name I can think of was steve firth who had oodles of knowledge. If the frustration of the forum gets to you at times, don't let it get to you for ever, take a break and then return."

Also why can't there be an area that's clearly labelled "unmoderated, enter at your own risk?

Thanks Sarah, :) I do miss the input from many that have left and it is a shame.
As for mod free zone I guess this is it, the circolo, the nearest you'll get and yes it would be a good idea to state enter at your own risk. ;)

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca]Thanks Sarah, :) I do miss the input from many that have left and it is a shame.
As for mod free zone I guess this is it, the circolo, the nearest you'll get and yes it would be a good idea to state enter at your own risk. ;)[/QUOTE]

But its not a mod free zone, and not all those who have left have done so from choice. And some have left because of the mods :mad:

I know Pace but what can be done about it?

You could get moddies put forward and elect them. Other forums do it that way. When theres a problem with modding on a forum, the administrators responsible for sorting it out. Theres some type of undercurrent on this forum - why is that? Sorry to ask.:o

Nice idea to put members forward but most of the best people have left. Keep the nice mods on here though.

So you think some kind of democracy then? Like of the members for the members ?

It's an open forum so who's chosen as mod should be open, yes? What the members would like.

[QUOTE=Pace]So you think some kind of democracy then? Like of the members for the members ?[/QUOTE]
Hi Pace, I did suggest this to Ronald a while back, infact I felt that the two members that this circolo was more or less set up for, as without them it would not be here now, should have been given the responsibility to moderate it, as they were both Patricians, and in my opinion things would not have got to this point that we are in now, one of the members I suggested is still with the forum now, makes the occasional posting, so not all is lost, but obviously my suggestion did not have the support,:(

I support you Frantiani. I support democracy Pace. I support freedom to express opinion and I support Tina's comments. I support strength in numbers to feel safe and I support those bold enough to take on the bolshevik sanctimonious sycophant behaviour.

I support clear rational expression to the webmaster through one thread, were those who have similar concerns may express them without fear of reprisal.

You have my full support.

Frantiani,

If you are referring to me, I am not able to freely post. Only what the moderators deem to be acceptable is allowed through. So I suppose that you will never read this.

Democracy, sounds great. But who will allow it?