3692 Magical Mystery Tour

Someone will have to help me out here, but you know that "all" Italians are very unkeen on swimming in lakes, but very keen on swimming in the sea.

It's all something to do with lakes being the lair of nymphs, and the sea being Neptune's kingdom, but whether it is a Greek or Roman myth, and what the details are, I don't recall.

I know several locals who will never trust the gods of automotive engineering of an afternoon without first partaking of a [i]litro[/i] of rosso; this is even more important of a Sunday when the gods' power is stronger :D

D

I don't know if this is still the case, but I knew Italian families that used to give their young children fried/stewed brains to eat once a week to 'make them clever'. Good source of protein so I suppose there could be something in it ; )

But so what, when I was little my mum would tell me to eat my carrots as they would make me see in the dark ... and the best one, eat your crusts if you want curly hair. I left all my crusts 'cos I most definately didn't want curly hair.

Just realised that his is definately off thread. Oh, well. Back to the vino plonko ; )

Out of interest Susan, by not eating crusts, did your hair curl. I love this tale, my mum and dad have always said his one to my brother and I when we were little. My dad is 63 this year, has a full head of curls and he has always put it down to the crusts.

No it didn't - so on hair wash night, after shampooing, my mum used to rinse my hair in vinegar (supposed to make it shine) and then tie it up in rags. The next morning I used to look like a poodle and smell like a chip shop!

What Anastasia says is generally true, especially in southern Italy, but I've never heard of something like these...

[QUOTE=Relaxed]Someone will have to help me out here, but you know that "all" Italians are very unkeen on swimming in lakes, but very keen on swimming in the sea.

It's all something to do with lakes being the lair of nymphs, and the sea being Neptune's kingdom, but whether it is a Greek or Roman myth, and what the details are, I don't recall.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Susan P]I don't know if this is still the case, but I knew Italian families that used to give their young children fried/stewed brains to eat once a week to 'make them clever'. Good source of protein so I suppose there could be something in it ; )[/QUOTE]

Sergio,

Can you tell us more about some of the superstitions you know about. I know the south probably has more than the north.

There is one or two that spring to my mind.. 'cornuto' and 'mano cornuto' - can you explain them for us?

:D :D

I've been tyring to find out about the water deities, without a lot of success, but I came across this little gem

Flora and Pomona. Minor fertility deities were FLORA [flo'ra] and POMONA [po-moh'na]. Flora was the goddess of the flowering plants (including grain and the vine), and was said to be the consort of Zephyrus, the West Wind, who gave her a garden filled with flowers and tended by the Horae (the Seasons) and Graces (Greek Charites).

So now we know why the Italians called them [B]pomodori[/B] when they arrived from the New World :)

[quote=Susan P]No it didn't - so on hair wash night, after shampooing, my mum used to rinse my hair in vinegar (supposed to make it shine) and then tie it up in rags. The next morning I used to look like a poodle and smell like a chip shop![/quote]

What an image Hee hee :D

Actually my dad said that eating crusts put hair on your chest - which isn't all that attractive on a woman. Oh and by the way, I did and it didn't.

I thought pomadoro came from golden apple,

Oh no! It's all gone terribly..[ATTACH]569[/ATTACH]

I wonder who gave it the bad eye? :D :D

[QUOTE=Anastasia]Sergio,

Can you tell us more about some of the superstitions you know about. I know the south probably has more than the north.

There is one or two that spring to my mind.. 'cornuto' and 'mano cornuto' - can you explain them for us?

:D :D[/QUOTE]

So... [I]cornuto[/I] could have more meanings (it's used in the south) that is: cuckolded, bastard (or s...d).

In northern Italy is not used. As you said, northern Italians are generally less superstitious, instead, superstition is quite deeply-rooted in the south (especially in Sicily and Campania). I think it's a subject so vast to write a book on.

I'm sure you are right - like in French potatoes are pomme de terre - apples of the earth! I think the whole "Pom" part must have come from my minor goddess though, originally she would have been the goddess of apples (and other fruit)...............and I can't for the life of me remember the French for tomatoes!!

"Not used in Northern Italy" - I think you should look at the Fillipo Lippi tryptych behind the altar in the Duomo of Spoleto, where a "self portrait" of the artist is included in a group of bystanders....gesturing very explicitly! (Apparently he had not been paid for the painting!)

Well, wherever it's used.. if it's good enough for him..
[ATTACH]607[/ATTACH] I wonder who he was making the sign to! :D :D

[QUOTE=Relaxed]"Not used in Northern Italy" - I think you should look at the Fillipo Lippi tryptych behind the altar in the Duomo of Spoleto, where a "self portrait" of the artist is included in a group of bystanders....gesturing very explicitly! (Apparently he had not been paid for the painting!)[/QUOTE]

To Relaxed and Anastasia

Ok. Let me better explain what I intended. The word cornuto is not used in the north even if the meaning is widely known. The fact that someone from north like Berlusconi uses that gesture doesn’t mean anything. Sometimes, for a joke, I used the English version of a famous American gesture (middle finger raised….) with 2 fingers up (you know….). That doesn’t make me English and not even means many Italians know or use it.
Just to try, you can go to Milan or Turin and after a dispute with a local say cornuto to him and watch his reaction (he will probably think you are mad or childish…and in many cases he/she will laugh at you). I was born in Pordenone (Friuli Venezia-Giulia – north) and I can assure you that (in 38 years) I've argued several times and I was addressed with many epithets but never cornuto.
Maybe my idea of north is rather restrictive and it’s true that you can hear that word in central Italy too (by the way, Spoleto isn’t in northern Italy), but with the meaning of bastard not with Sicilian meaning (cuckolded). In Sicily cornuto is a really bad insult. Infidelity for a Sicilian is a direct affront to his honor, something that stands in front of everything or everyone and in the past could end with a bloody clash (and in rather rare cases even today). In continental Italy the meaning is much less “dangerous”.

By the way, Lega Nord (Noth League), the party of Umberto Bossi (allied to Berlusconi), in ‘90s got huge success in northern Italy by publicly declaring that he wanted to split northern Italy from the rest of the country, speaking about Rome and the government as “Roma ladrona” (Rome the thief) and considering Padana plain (Padania – the area around river Pò) the very heart of Italy, and the rest “parasitic south”….that said, you should understand that Italy is a very complex country with many differences, in many aspects (languages, culture, traditions) from north to south (In my region a good part of locals think of themselves they are Friulani not Italians and after 38 years I cannot speak or understand the dialect spoken 45 Km north of my town, called Carnico).
All that said Cornuto is a word born in the south and it belongs to Sicilian and Neapolitan culture.
If you see a gesture or a particular behavior somewhere in Italy and you consider it common all over the country means that you do not understand how complex we and our country are; this is just to suggest more attention in analyzing these small things.
I guess that the same applies to UK; I cannot believe that a Scottish idealist will ever accept being considered English or to see any typical Scottish tradition or peculiarity assimilated to English culture.
I can tell you that differences between an Italian from Tarcento (Udine) and one from Palermo are much…much more evident then those between a Scot and an English. I dare to say that the only things they have in common are the knowledge of a language (Italian) they spoke with strong and different accents but not consider their own and a citizenship.
Say cornuto to a farmer from Tarcento and I bet there are many chances he/she won’t even understand what you’re talking about.

So…. you can say cornuto to me, I don’t bother; but be very careful not to say that to a Sicilian if you don’t know him very well….

I know, my post is quite off subject, but I hope this time I made myself clear.

Ciao

PS
Feel free to correct any mistakes :) .

Very clear Sergio!

My family is from Napoli and we have many relatives in Sicilia.. but not a single one of them would use this sign or say "cornuto".. except me! I just needed someone to explain the real meaning and get the message across.. from an Italian point of view.

Grazie mille! :D :D

Again for Anastasia

I forgot to add an important detail. The gesture Berlusconi is doing have another important meaning (not only “cornuto”).
In Naples it’s used to drive away “malocchio” (evil eye). In Naples you can hear people talking about casting the evil aye on someone, that means to make a ritual to bring bad luck to someone, so that he/she will be hunted by ill luck.
That ritual (in Neapolitan belief) can be reverted by the intervention of a priest or a witch/wizard. Yes, in 2006 there are people still believing in such a things….

Si, lo so.. sono la vecchia strega originale! :D :D

[QUOTE=Anastasia]Very clear Sergio!
.......
Grazie mille! :D :D[/QUOTE]

You're welcome...happy to hear that.

Ciao