2530 Puglia: Land of toxic waste?

Nice post Charles, I will simply dress in normal clothes for my visit now, wonder if I can return the Nuclear and biological warefare suit to the suppliers. Hmmmm.

Charles, this is no way to start a good argument. Isn't there something really outrageous that you saw/discovered en vacance? ;)

I really dont understand why so many people are so critical of Puglian, even this thread seems to end up saying dont really like it, I can find any other areas bashed so much as Puglia. God John of Abruzzo would have a fit if anyone critised his beloved Abruzzo, still I look forward to his unbiased option to be added here......not!

[QUOTE=elainecraig]I really dont understand why so many people are so critical of Puglian, even this thread seems to end up saying dont really like it, I can find any other areas bashed so much as Puglia. God John of Abruzzo would have a fit if anyone critised his beloved Abruzzo, still I look forward to his unbiased option to be added here......not![/QUOTE]

don't worry Elaine,we could start on Campania (but i'm afraid Aliena would send her uncle round to my house-mr.Camorra) because today they said on the news that of the 97 comuni Campani it appears only three are not currently under investigation for corruption and worse, in conjunction with the Camorra...

Oh yes, await Johns responce which will start with a great big "Oh yes BUT...."

[quote=Wishful Thinker]Charles, this is no way to start a good argument. Isn't there something really outrageous that you saw/discovered en vacance? ;)[/quote]

[LEFT]Other than the fact that it was absolutely freezing, did see a Kitchen sink lying in the middle of the road. Oh, and I did wonder why everyone glowed bright green:rolleyes:

GeorgeS...I would hang on to the suit If I were you...you never know you might still need it. [/LEFT]

Oh it does not really matter which region you pick...they are all corrupt at the level of local government...how could you hope for anything else...look at the national government.

[QUOTE=elainecraig]I really dont understand why so many people are so critical of Puglian, even this thread seems to end up saying dont really like it, I can find any other areas bashed so much as Puglia. God John of Abruzzo would have a fit if anyone critised his beloved Abruzzo, still I look forward to his unbiased option to be added here......not![/QUOTE]

Hi Elaine,

I thought Charles's post was quite positive about Puglia, trying to counteract to any previous negative comments. It's only his personal opinion that he prefers central Italy (while you and others prefer Puglia) but at least he's been there & has seen the place - so he knows what he's talking about...:)

I'm sure I'll visit one day too... ;)

Stephanie

[quote=elainecraig]I really dont understand why so many people are so critical of Puglian, even this thread seems to end up saying dont really like it, I can find any other areas bashed so much as Puglia. God John of Abruzzo would have a fit if anyone critised his beloved Abruzzo, still I look forward to his unbiased option to be added here......not![/quote]

[LEFT]Elaine...methinks you are taking my comments out of context. I was being honest in my appraisal and was not being critical. :) [/LEFT]

Why is it that some members of the forum seem intent on turning as many posts as possible into an argument... we're on here because we love Italy and things Italian, different people prefer different areas, for different reasons. Italy is a big place with, in the main nice people. Local government is corruptable, and, I would guess is corrupt in almost every part of the World, in the UK for instance, Doncaster in recent years, and Private Eye manages to run a full "Rotten Boroughs" page every fortnight, toxic waste was, and is still being dumped all over GB, and in many areas of the world, why would Italy be different ??, or, mores the point, why would any region be different to any other.

[QUOTE=GeorgeS]Why is it that some members of the forum seem intent on turning as many posts as possible into an argument... .[/QUOTE]

Arguing, who's arguing? It's a discussion. Italian style ;)

[QUOTE=Wishful Thinker]Charles, this is no way to start a good argument. Isn't there something really outrageous that you saw/discovered en vacance? ;)[/QUOTE]

"But, if you want to start on Campania and think you are brave enough.. go for it. I would love it 'cus I think it's well overdue and poor Toxic Puglia has had a bashing recently.

Aliena and Giovanni go to war against 1500+ members and we'd still win!

As Carlo Marchex once said.. BRING IT ON! "

Errrrrm, I mght have picked up the wrong end of the tale here, then again....

[QUOTE=Charles Joseph][LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Having just returned from a trip to Puglia I thought it would be useful to post a few comments in order to dispel some of the myths that seem to be going around.[/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Although my mother is originally from Taranto, I haven’t been there for nearly 30 years and so have very few recollections, apart from some very distant childhood memories, which came springing back during this visit. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]To be honest, I really don’t know what all the fuss is about because I didn’t find anything unusual or abnormal (not that I was expecting this).[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The region does have its problems this is true, and the newspapers reported, on a daily basis, a number of problems at the local level, but I’ve yet been to any region in Italy (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) where the local news is free from tales of crime, corruption, scandals, recalcitrant youths and problems concerning the local environment for example. It is therefore not correct to label Puglia with any hostility and contempt. Puglia is neither a rubbish tip nor is it a toxic waste ground.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I also looked at the property market during my visit and affordability and location seem to be the top priorities. My advice is the same wherever you go: [B][I][U]caveat emptor[/U][/I][/B][I]. [/I]Moreover, many buyers still get carried away with the idea of buying a cheap property and then fall into the potential trap of underestimating renovation costs. It is no different in Puglia. Don’t ignore this very important factor and don’t forget that in some areas planning restrictions are very strict. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]It is a highly specialised job to renovate a Trullo for example, and you can expect to spend anywhere between € 1500 and € 2000 per square metre, depending upon the condition of the property. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Personally, the local architecture and landscape does nothing for me. I prefer central Italy. But that is my own preference. That doesn’t mean to say, however, that the Puglia is devoid of cultural gems for if you seek them out, there are plenty of surprises in store. Add to this the vibrancy of the Pugliesi and the joys in discovering the culinary surprises that are so distinctive to the region and you should get a much clearer picture of what it is like. [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Once again, someone, not living in Puglia, but went for a visit has felt obliged to comment on the region.

As a true Pugliese living in Canada with property and relatives in Puglia (Gargano) and also having visited on numerous occasions and spent time with relitives who live in Marche specifically Ancona, Loretto, Osimo, and Porto Recanati, I also can make a similar statement about the Marche. What is so special about Marche!! Nothing!!

It is my impression that foreigners buy in Marche because they cannot afford to purchase in Tuscany. By contrast most people who purchase in Puglia do so because they love what the region has to offer, the Beach, the food and the joi-de-vivre. Thats why Italy Mag. forum members from the Puglia are always throwing parties and get togethers. We like to have fun.

Puglia from North to South is alive with activity in the summer months. That is why Italians, Germans, Swiss and the French vacation there. They don't come here to see the sights.

Aliena, Is the playpen still open ???

[QUOTE=Frank]Once again, someone, not living in Puglia, but went for a visit has felt obliged to comment on the region.

As a true Pugliese living in Canada with property and relatives in Puglia (Gargano) and also having visited on numerous occasions and spent time with relitives who live in Marche specifically Ancona, Loretto, Osimo, and Porto Recanati, I also can make a similar statement about the Marche. What is so special about Marche!! Nothing!!

It is my impression that foreigners buy in Marche because they cannot afford to purchase in Tuscany. By contrast most people who purchase in Puglia do so because they love what the region has to offer, the Beach, the food and the joi-de-vivre. Thats why Italy Mag. forum members from the Puglia are always throwing parties and get togethers. We like to have fun.

Puglia from North to South is alive with activity in the summer months. That is why Italians, Germans, Swiss and the French vacation there. They don't come here to see the sights.[/QUOTE]

Charles has given a balanced impression of his view of Puglia and also defended the region whilst at the same time stating that lovely though it is, it does nothing for him.

And just being from a region does not necessarily give a person additional insight or special rights to comment on it. Sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to see things that the natives have looked past/become so accustomed to they don't notice it anymore.

If we could only speak of the little bits of the earth that we hail from/live in then this site would become very boring indeed...

[quote=Frank]Once again, someone, not living in Puglia, but went for a visit has felt obliged to comment on the region.

As a true Pugliese living in Canada with property and relatives in Puglia (Gargano) and also having visited on numerous occasions and spent time with relitives who live in Marche specifically Ancona, Loretto, Osimo, and Porto Recanati, I also can make a similar statement about the Marche. What is so special about Marche!! Nothing!!

It is my impression that foreigners buy in Marche because they cannot afford to purchase in Tuscany. By contrast most people who purchase in Puglia do so because they love what the region has to offer, the Beach, the food and the joi-de-vivre. Thats why Italy Mag. forum members from the Puglia are always throwing parties and get togethers. We like to have fun.

Puglia from North to South is alive with activity in the summer months. That is why Italians, Germans, Swiss and the French vacation there. They don't come here to see the sights.[/quote]

[LEFT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Frank[/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]If we go by your line of reasoning, then the same argument would be true of Puglia. Foreigners buy in Puglia because they cannot afford to buy in the Marche or anywhwere else for that matter. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]But this is really not the point of the debate and you obviously haven't read what I said. In view of the fact that Puglia has been in for a bashing recently, I felt that I would offer an honest appraisal about the region. That is exactly what I have done. In fact: [/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial][I]"The region does have its problems this is true, and the newspapers reported, on a daily basis, a number of problems at the local level, [B][U]but I’ve yet been to any region in Italy (or anywhere else in the world for that matter)[/U][/B] [U][B]where the local news is free from tales of crime, corruption, scandals, recalcitrant youths and problems concerning the local environment for example. It is therefore not correct to label Puglia with any hostility and contempt. Puglia is neither a rubbish tip nor is it a toxic waste ground[/B][/U][/I][U][B]."[/B][/U][/FONT][/SIZE]

[LEFT][I][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial][U][B][...] "That doesn’t mean to say, however, that the[/B][/U] [U][B]Puglia is devoid of cultural gems for if you seek them out, there are plenty of surprises in store. Add to this the vibrancy of the Pugliesi and the joys in discovering the culinary surprises that are so distinctive to the region and you should get a much clearer picture of what it is like"[/B][/U][/FONT][/SIZE][/I][/LEFT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]The fact that I don't live in Puglia (although it is part of my roots and have spent a lot of time there in the past) and the fact that I am not inspired by the architecture or landscape is irrelevant. Moreover, I did say my preference is for central Italy and not that the Marche is better than Puglia.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Bring it on! :D [/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Sano]Charles has given a balanced impression of his view of Puglia and also defended the region whilst at the same time stating that lovely though it is, it does nothing for him.

And just being from a region does not necessarily give a person additional insight or special rights to comment on it. Sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to see things that the natives have looked past/become so accustomed to they don't notice it anymore.

If we could only speak of the little bits of the earth that we hail from/live in then this site would become very boring indeed...[/QUOTE]

Charles's balanced impression went down the toilet the moment he said that it "does nothing for him". Why did he even have to comment on the region.

As for a fresh pair of eyes. I can say for a fact that my eyes are fresh. I am not a native of Puglia but have close ties to both regions.

Look at the post carefully!!! The header is about Toxic Waste in Puglia. He says that he did not see anything unusal or abnormal!!! Was he looking for something in specific???

The problem I have with posts such as these is by the people who post them.

Charles is in the real estate business. The core of his business is in Marche. Do the math!!

If John in Bbruzzo would have made the above statement I would not have had a problem.

(Quote Frank)

'It is my impression that foreigners buy in Marche because they cannot afford to purchase in Tuscany."

I think you have the wrong impression (from our point of view).

We actually like southern Le Marche, because we like southern Le Marche.
Frankly Frank ( :confused: ) you can't make a sweeping generality about any region in it's entirety. We all have different tastes, needs and wants, otherwise we'd all be interested in the same locations. I think Ronalds poll on "favorite regions" points out that the regions are quite evenly divided.

John and Dee

Frank, without splitting hairs, looking carefully at the title will reveal a question mark... also, he said the architecture and landscape did nothing for him personally, I fear you have caught the peculiar, "we better have an argument bug".............

Charles made what I think were very positive comments. He said that he has been and seen with his own (fresh) eyes, and that the flack that Puglia has come in for recently (maliciously or capriciously) is not justified.

That sounds to me a valuable, balanced thing to do.

He says that he doesn't particularly like the area - he acknowledges that that is his personal taste, and that is fine. That is not to say that he is maliging it in any way. I wouldn't want to live in Barbados, though I have no doubt that it has a lot to offer and some people do/would. Its just the way things/people are.

Or is it not toxicity in Puglia, but neurosis that is the problem? :)

[QUOTE=greatscott](Quote Frank)

'It is my impression that foreigners buy in Marche because they cannot afford to purchase in Tuscany."

I think you have the wrong impression (from our point of view).

We actually like southern Le Marche, because we like southern Le Marche.
Frankly Frank ( :confused: ) you can't make a sweeping generality about any region in it's entirety. We all have different tastes, needs and wants, otherwise we'd all be interested in the same locations. I think Ronalds poll on "favorite regions" points out that the regions are quite evenly divided.

John and Dee[/QUOTE]

Why not!!

Sweeping statements are constantly being made about Puglia. Toxic waste dump in Puglia is not a sweeping statement!! It's like saying that California is a toxic waste dump.

Charles visited the Taranto region of Puglia and made a sweeping statement. That was wrong. Puglia is such more than Taranto or Bari or Foggia. Charles should visit the Gargano and the Tremiti islands and see if it does anything for him..

[quote=Frank]Charles's balanced impression went down the toilet the moment he said that it "does nothing for him". Why did he even have to comment on the region.

As for a fresh pair of eyes. I can say for a fact that my eyes are fresh. I am not a native of Puglia but have close ties to both regions.

Look at the post carefully!!! The header is about Toxic Waste in Puglia. He says that he did not see anything unusal or abnormal!!! Was he looking for something in specific???

The problem I have with posts such as these is by the people who post them.

Charles is in the real estate business. The core of his business is in Marche. Do the math!!

If John in Bbruzzo would have made the above statement I would not have had a problem.[/quote]
[LEFT][/LEFT]
Absolute balderdash Frank! Your argument is flawed!

You don't know anything about my business and so I don't really think you are in a position to comment. I wouldn't have helped some forum members complete their purchase in Puglia if I were intent on just selling properties in the Marche.

As for the heading...look again and it says Toxic waste in Puglia? (question mark). You obviuosly haven't read any of the previous threads where Adriatica harps on about the south.

You also said that you were a "true Pugliese" now yet claim that you are not a native...??? At least be consistent Frank:D :)

My parents are both from Puglia. I was born in Canada. As such I am not a native.

Below is another of your statements.

"Other than the fact that it was absolutely freezing, did see a Kitchen sink lying in the middle of the road. Oh, and I did wonder why everyone glowed bright green"

So you did not see any signs of toxic waste but the Puglians are all "glowing bright green"

Nice..

LOL, some people do say California is a toxic waste dump. California is a HUGE state, and I'm sure there are areas that need attention. I'm glad people are pointing out the things that need to be cleaned up, otherwise they would continue to get worse.

I think most intelligent people on this forum recognize the statements made that are "sweeping generalities" and wouldn't base their choices of locations based on these posts, but would take the time to research out their areas of interest, aside from anyone elses biases.

It is my view that this thread has degenerated into a pointless argument, I have therefor decided to close the thread and await a decision as to whether it is re opened until such time as everyone has taken time to reflect...

Sorry George I broke in! ;) Just to say this thread proves a point, how easy it is for people to misread posts and get the wrong end of the stick! Ok, I'm off again, have repaired the damage and changed the locks so it should remain closed now! :D

Wait!! I just saw one of those Green Glowing Puglians..

There he is..

[ATTACH]80[/ATTACH]

[LEFT]Frank, now you've got the idea! But you have messed up my repairs, George is gonna be real mad! :eek: [/LEFT]

[quote=trullomartinafranca][LEFT]Frank, now you've got the idea! But you have messed up my repairs, George is gonna be real mad! :eek: [/LEFT]
[/quote]
Me thinks it was Aliena who left the door open - she is like that!:D

if you can't say anything nice, don't bother saying anything.....so i can't
so i won't.......

[LEFT]
Great picture Frank! I like it:)

Sono d'accordissimo con te trullomartinafranca....but never mind george, he forgot to throw away the key:D:p

[/LEFT]

Nothing personal Charles. I know you meant no malice.

[quote=Frank]Nothing personal Charles. I know you meant no malice.[/quote]

I don't think there was anything wrong with the picture - looks remarkably like our alledged agents.

[LEFT]There you go, everyone is happy again! :D :D :D [/LEFT]

[LEFT]
Likewise Frank...

I wasn't being disrespectful to Puglia (I still have relatives who live there and have fond memories).

[/LEFT]

don't you just hate soppy endings......

So what area of Marche do you live in? I usually visit the Loretto - Osimo area.

[LEFT]
When I'm there I spend most of my time in Mogliano (MC), although our offices are further south, but am constantly travelling between UK and Tuscany as well. [/LEFT]

I'd just like to ask which area's of Puglia Charles visited, was it just the Taranto area because IMO that is far from being the prettiest, I found it very industrial, in fact bloody awful but thats my opinion and appologies to fellow Puglians.

[QUOTE=paula hampson]I'd just like to ask which area's of Puglia Charles visited, was it just the Taranto area because IMO that is far from being the prettiest, I found it very industrial, in fact bloody awful but thats my opinion and appologies to fellow Puglians.[/QUOTE]

Don't you start. We know it's an ugly area of Puglia. Thats where I spotted those "Green Men". Let's just keep it between Puglians.

Frank, you know where I'm coming from then. We decided to have a look at the other side to Ostuni and headed to Taranto, didn't like it one bit, didn't get out of the car and turned round and went straight back so if Charles says it wasn't for him perhaps he didn't get a true view of the region and should have come over to Ostuni, Alberabello, Lecce ect which are fabulous and can't wait to go back.:D Frank, as for the green men, if you spot Zurg, let me know perhaps it might be worth another visit.....and I'll take Buz :eek:

[quote=paula hampson]I'd just like to ask which area's of Puglia Charles visited, was it just the Taranto area because IMO that is far from being the prettiest, I found it very industrial, in fact bloody awful but thats my opinion and appologies to fellow Puglians.[/quote]

[LEFT]No not just Taranto, he drove past your Villa and lots of other places. It's just not the same as middle Italy which is his preference, thats all, nothing sinister. As you know Puglia has a high Arabic influence from centries ago which either appeals or not as the case maybe. It just didn't ring Charlie's bell. :D [/LEFT]

Well it rings my bell and always appeals to me, and that's all that matters ;)

[QUOTE=Aliena]Trulli..

T'kellem arabi? Ana kellem arabi qwese.. Minfhadlik akj shukran.. tisbah alla kheir as treckh el khiebah.

Ma salama! ;)

:) :)[/QUOTE]

you bin googlin girl, or smokin' dat hookah?

I is bin told ya...ya wanna bee my chic...yus godda be kleen..

[QUOTE=trullomartinafranca][LEFT]No not just Taranto, he drove past your Villa and lots of other places. It's just not the same as middle Italy which is his preference, thats all, nothing sinister. As you know Puglia has a high Arabic influence from centries ago which either appeals or not as the case maybe. It just didn't ring Charlie's bell. :D [/LEFT][/QUOTE]

i thought the arabic influence was wiped out in the 13th century..
or was that just the arabs...

[QUOTE=Aliena]Wanna debate Campania? No one else will![/QUOTE]

Now if we're gonna discuss toxic waste and Campania...........

[QUOTE=The Guardian][url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,,1326692,00.html]"A third of Italy's waste is disposed of illegally, and Campania is where much of it ends up...."[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ric]Now if we're gonna discuss toxic waste and Campania...........[/QUOTE]

But is that illegal toxic waste or just your common or garden spazatura? Know what I mean, the odd fridge or two just sitting in the middle of the road :)

[quote=paula hampson]I'd just like to ask which area's of Puglia Charles visited, was it just the Taranto area because IMO that is far from being the prettiest, I found it very industrial, in fact bloody awful but thats my opinion and appologies to fellow Puglians.[/quote]

[LEFT]Actually Paula I visited (on this trip) 3 provinces: Bari, Brindisi and Taranto.

Taranto is very industrial but I actually felt safer walking around in the centre of town there than I do in parts of London.

The area just outside Martina Franca (north and enroute to Locorotondo)is well manicured and Alberobello is unquestionably fascinating. I also enjoyed Ostuni's Centro Storico.

As I said in my original post...if you seek out the gems you will find them and Puglia has plenty. :)

[/LEFT]

There you all go again - criticising Puglia just because someone wrote in "sticking up" for it. I dont know wjhy any of you lot come to Italy in the first place if all you can do is find fault. Warra lotta dorks.

My god its those pesky Abruzzoians spreading toxic waste, stories from the Godfather, and giving all the women black dresses. Frank you are very funny! And just for the record whoever said you only bought in Puglia if you couldnt afford any other area in Italy. I bought in puglia because I LIKED puglia, cheeky monkey.