Get a good
Submitted by Angie and Robert on Sun, 10/07/2012 - 17:10In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Get a Commercialista, as A &
Submitted by Flip on Sun, 10/07/2012 - 17:25In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks Flip. I had not
Submitted by StephenBrown Modena on Mon, 10/08/2012 - 15:51In reply to Get a Commercialista, as A & by Flip
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yes, get a commercialista - but. If you are resident and its your first home there are tax breaks on current year income on restoration or modernisation. These cannot be offset against anything else other than your irpef for the current year - so what you propose would never work. in fact offsetting anything against future income is impossible here. Whether you need IVA all depends on how you classify your business and what you do.
Ram is right... as usual. And
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Mon, 10/08/2012 - 03:45In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Sorry Stephen, Modena not my
Submitted by Flip on Mon, 10/08/2012 - 16:09In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Accountant and VAT number
Submitted by Ugo on Mon, 10/08/2012 - 16:28In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
An accountantis the best choice, in my website < www.lifeinitaly.it > - you can find a list of professionals who speak English - the laws on vacation rentals in Italy are different from region to region, but in principle if the income that you from your holiday home does not exceed 75% of your total income, you can rent without having to apply for a license and a VAT number
that depends
Submitted by Ram on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 01:51In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
affittacamere e B&B
Submitted by Ugo on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 04:37In reply to that depends by Ram
see : http://www.bed-and-breakfast.it/leggi_bed_and_breakfast_umbria.cfm Art. 16/bis (Servizio di alloggio e prima colazione "Bed and Breakfast") Costituisce servizio di alloggio e prima colazione "Bed And Breakfast" l'attività a conduzione familiare esercitata in modo saltuario e senza carattere di imprenditorialità all'interno dell'abitazione. Il servizio di prima colazione deve essere assicurato utilizzando prodotti tipici della zona confezionati, senza manipolazione. Please note > NON IMPRENDITORIALE = no business , no vat !! AFFITTACAMERE > http://www.tasse-fisco.com/case/affitta-camere-bed-breackfast-fiscale-licenza-adempimenti-aperturaivatura-partita-iva-licenze-adempimenti/6423/ gli affittacamere non possono dare in locazione stanze, case o appartamenti per meno di sette giorni tranne il caso che siano lavoratore del settore del cinema e spettacolo i am sorry , all articles are in italian :)
There you go Ugo (!)
Submitted by sprostoni on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 06:27In reply to affittacamere e B&B by Ugo
A google translation...... (My Italian is poor but the translation seems reasonable Ugo ? S Constitute a service of bed and breakfast "Bed And Breakfast" the family business carried on in an intermittent way and without character of entrepreneurship within the home. The breakfast service must be secured using local products packaged without manipulation. Please note> NOT BUSINESS = no business, no vat! RENT the landlord can not lease rooms, houses or apartments for less than seven days, except when they are employed in the field of cinema and entertainment
vat and business
Submitted by Ugo on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 07:53In reply to There you go Ugo (!) by sprostoni
The B &B is not a business, but only a small private gain, then you do not need a VAT - yes the traslation is ok RENT = B&B if the renting not more than 7 days - EXCEPT for <they are employed in the field of cinema and entertainment > this according an VERY OLD italian laws (when in italy have a " case di tolleranza (= brothel ! ) " - on this activities , women where replaced every 7 days ..:) MORE >> http://www.bed-and-breakfast.it/leggi_bed_and_breakfast_nazionale.cfm italian Turist law - > even for B&B and Renting yet , you can't only traslate , is necessary even to understand ... - The italian language , some times, explain very little linear , expecialy for those who have not real knowledge of the language - You need an accountant specialized on this matter - maybe you can go to chambre of the commerce , turism section - or hotel association (search local section of AICA - associazione Italiana Compagnie alberghiere )
I agree with Ugo,
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 13:04In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I agree with Ugo, translation, particularly in the field of legal texts can be very tricky. The chances of misinterpreting the contents can be very high. Even amongst the translation professionals there are specialist in legal texts. The best advice is to get a commercialista to guide you. Money well spent.
with respect
Submitted by sprostoni on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 13:55In reply to I agree with Ugo, by Gala Placidia
common sense
Submitted by Ugo on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 15:30In reply to with respect by sprostoni
Professionals
Submitted by cardi on Tue, 10/09/2012 - 17:59In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
It is normal to use them but not for me. They can tell you what to do and then explain later why it didn't work. I remember some time ago in an old Italian colony called Argentina which has a horrendous bureacracy being able to go to a library and copy some rules to explain to a bureaucrat the correct procedure. If I had used a local lawyer I would probably still be there. However this renting out a place for a few hours at a time and not being considered as a landlord for tax purposes seems to have possibilities.
democrazia
Submitted by Ugo on Wed, 10/10/2012 - 04:14In reply to Professionals by cardi
affittacamere
Submitted by Ram on Wed, 10/10/2012 - 01:50In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The laws on affittacamere have changed - you can rent them like a B&B but each room must have cooking facilities, telephone etc - or you can rent them as a cas vacanza - without the cooking facilities but with everything else. If you have a house full of what are basically bedsits - then you will need a partita IVA, if its a room off your garage you wont - it all depends how you want to run your businesss.
Law interpretation ..
Submitted by Ugo on Wed, 10/10/2012 - 04:12In reply to affittacamere by Ram
Spostoni , Bed& Breakfast, in Italian means UN POSTO LETTO E UNA COLAZIONE , ed UN POSTO LETTO ED UNA COLAZIONE NOT is an apartment consisting of bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom, terrace and garage - the Italian way to write the laws and to interpret them is certainly different from all other countries in the world - it may be for this reason that it was made a law that requires, for all those who want to live in Italy, the Italian language - this is to make it clear to all that this forum who is not in able to understand the Italian language, if you interpret it in line with the thinking of his country, then this is likely to pay dearly for his actions
In reply to Law interpretation .. by Ugo
Ugo, Agreed, sadly, as much as I am prepared to try, I will never understand the Italian language as well as the English language. The simple online translations that are available are a great help to me, especially as I can tweak the proposed translation to suit my own understanding. In cases of dealing with anything serious, I would always look for a more experienced translator. S
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
the Italian way to write the laws and to interpret them is certainly different from all other countries in the world -
And so we need to hire professionals and pay them lots of money to deal with this due to our inability to understand these extremely complicated things, is that it?
lot of money
Submitted by Ugo on Wed, 10/10/2012 - 16:32Thanks to all that have
Submitted by StephenBrown Modena on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 18:44In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks to all that have contributed to my question. I am very slowly getting to grips with my Italian language skills and thoroughly enjoying the experience. I will not be providing Bed and breakfast. Just a three bedroom top floor apartment with its own cooking facilities and hopefully a pool in time. Any rent would not reach 75% of total income. If I have understood correctly, this means that I will not need to apply for registration or be VAT registered. As it would appear that I can not set off any initial capital expentiduture against future rental income, is there a % limit of annual expenditure that can be set off each year or does this depend upon the locality? I will be looking up Commercialistas in my area with ex pat experience. Thanks to all once again
Stephen, a lot of the rules
Submitted by Penny on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 05:41In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Stephen, a lot of the rules are Regional so will differ from area to area. Generally though you could rent as 'appartamento amobiliato per uso turistico' so long as it is not rented for more that 30 days or available for more than 6 months of the year (these are the rules in Marche). Even if the rules in your area are slightly different then the classification is the same. It requires no P.IVA nor any particular size, facilities etc. so long as you have less than 4 units. You can just put the income on your Italian tax return and you will pay IRPEF on it. You can choose a special scheme whereby you hand over 21% to the tax man, no more tax is due but you cannot offset any of the expenses of running the appartment. You would need advice to see if this is better for you. It sounds like the 'appartamento amobiliato per uso turistico' would apply to you and it is the simplest, least beurocratic way to do it that I have found. Usually you need to give a notification to the comune (details will vary) and keep statistics for the regional tourist board and complete the Polizia dello Stato tourist registration forms for each new guest. You can offset certain renovation costs against your Italian tax bill but there are procedures that need to be complied with and the offset will take place over 10 years so you might decide it's not worth it. Your geometra should know about the procedures and ask the accountant about whether it is worth it. I would say find a GOOD accountant - forget whether they speak English or not and then use a GOOD translator. A bit more expensive but, certainly in Marche and I imagine it is the same everywhere, there have been plenty of incompetent (or just dishonest) professionals who have got work just because they speak English! Better to have someone with a good reputation and pay for the translation.
Italian tax on holiday property
Submitted by StephenBrown Modena on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 08:06In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks for your thoughts Penny. I had not thought of restricting the period when the house could be available for let. Presumably if it is available for 12 months of the year the rules will be quite different. I will start asking locals for commercialista recommendations.
cedolare secca
Submitted by Ram on Sat, 10/13/2012 - 03:29In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks Ram, It is becoming
Submitted by StephenBrown Modena on Sat, 10/13/2012 - 05:35In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks Ram, It is becoming obvious that there is no 'one size fits all' solution due either to the over complex legislation in the first place or that local Communes can adjust the legislation to suit themselves. This appears to result in fear all round resulting in most resorting to a Commercialista to prevent any nasty surprises or worse still trying to avoid their responsibilies through other means. Once I have invested my money and got my advice I will return to this subject for the benefit of others that want to suppliment their incomes by letting part of their house out for holiday use. I hope that I will also learn to relax which is the whole point of moving to this beautiful country in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Stephen, it would be
Submitted by rachel68 on Sat, 10/13/2012 - 06:06In reply to Thanks Ram, It is becoming by StephenBrown Modena
Thanks Stephen, it would be good if you would pass on what you glean form your commercialista.. Someone made the point on this forum that the bext way of finding the 'best' way with the tax rules is to present to a commercialista all the different advice you will be given on these sort of forums and then they are quite happy to shift through and explore the correct solution for you. If you don't present multiple possibilities for how your situation might be managed you might just get the easiest way for them...they also apparently welcome this method if they are a good commercialista as it keeps them up to speed with the chameleon -like taxation laws of Italy!
Interpretation
Submitted by sprostoni on Sat, 10/13/2012 - 09:11In reply to Thanks Stephen, it would be by rachel68
That's a good point RAM. Back
Submitted by Penny on Mon, 10/15/2012 - 08:30In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
That's a good point RAM. Back to the accountants again! Just found this though so we can use it for contracts of less than 30 days: http://www.cedolaresecca.net/faq/faq.html
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec