B&B rules re number of rooms in

01/03/2016 - 05:41

B&B rules re number of rooms in Piedmont? Any advice? Hello everyone. Hoping that somebody can assist with guidance on how the rules work re the maximum number of rooms a B&B can have? I'm looking to move to Piedmont in the next 6-12 months and have been researching potential buildings to buy and convert. I would need more than 3 rooms to make this financially viable, but don't intend to have more than 8 as need to manage most of the work myself/with my partner.I'm a hotelier with 20+ years experience so have no issue running the B&B as such, but any guidance on the legislations in Piedmont and also on how the taxes work (overview would be fine!) would be greatly appreciated.Many thanks!

Topic

Buying

Location

Piedmont

Comment

Hi Sbthorne, I think maybe you have already got wind of the local law that puts a maximum limit on 3 bedroom or 6 bedplaces for B&Bs in Piemonte, See the law number 20 of 2000 (Legge Regionale 13 marzo 2000, n. 20) in linkhttp://www.invia.it/bed_and_breakfast/leggi/come_aprire_bed_and_breakfast_piemonte.php It states:3. L'attività, che deve avere carattere di saltuarietà anche se per periodi stagionali ricorrenti, deve essere esercitata utilizzando non più di tre camere con un massimo di sei posti letto.Translated roughly 3. The activity should be of intermittent character although seasonal recurrent, with a maximum of three rooms with a maximum of six beds. I am sorry I feel that this is not really what you wanted to hear. Maybe a Relais or Agriturismo or Hotel would be more your line. For example see:http://www.agriturismo.it/it/extra/aprire-un-agriturismo-in-piemonte-501

Thanks Ronco for your time. Yes, there are many variations out there as I'm finding! I believe I CAN operate a B&B with more rooms, but then would need to be taxed as a normal business, rather than just operate it for supplementary income. I'm still researching to get better clarity and will look at the links you suggest.Thanks again!

Ah ha, I understand - nothing is ever simple. Best thing is to be in touch with someone who runs a b+b in Piemonte

Hi, now that I think about it we have Italian friends who have just moved from Milan to Acqui Terme, Piemonte and will operate a B&B. If you would like I can ask them if they can help you.

Many thanks Ronco. Always happy to chat with anyone in the industry so if they're moving to the region to open a B&B and are willing to advise on any pitfalls I'd of course welcome it - but conscious I may at some point potentially be a competitor! Thanks again.

Dear Sbthorne,

In Piemonte you can not run a B&B with more than 3 rooms for max. 6 persons in total, but there are a lot of other possibilities that give you the opportunity to run a similar business, it will only be called differently. For example, as an affitacamere you can have max. 6 rooms. Or, if you want to rent out holiday apartments / studios they are called "alloggi vacanze". Each has it's own rules, but the good thing is: almost everything is possible. See the list of accomodation types in Piemonte here : http://www.regione.piemonte.it/turismo/cms/strutture-ricettive (unfortunately the information is only available in Italian).

If you're in need of professional help in finding a property and / or starting a touristic activity, don't hesitate to ask (mail : info@advitalia.be, website: http://italy.advitalia.be )

Dear NicholasMany thanks for your advice. I have this week trawled the Piemonte website and did manage to find the info you've suggested but was taking a while to Google-Translate the pages but got there in the end (my Italian needs a lot of improvement!). But that said, its good to hear from you to confirm what I thought I was finding out re affittacamere and so on as I was aware of the basic B&B restrictions and the reasons for it.Thanks again for taking the time to respond and for the additional tips and advice - its much apprecated. CheersSteve

If you get a partita IVA and therefore are a professional B&Ber there should be no limit on what you are allowed to do. The regional laws are for people who let out a room to supplement their income and declare it on their tax forms. if it is a business and run as such, the national law will surely apply.

It is true that there are B&B's with and without partita IVA. The difference is : those with a partita IVA have more income because they rent the rooms out more regularly than those who do it more as a hobby. BUT : if you call it B&B (partita IVA or not) you ALWAYS have the room restriction (in Piemonte 3, in other regions sometimes max. 4-6).

Thanks very much for the advice!

Perhaps the way round it is not to call it anything. I have clients who did that - they just called 'Palazzo bello' or whatever- neither b&b nor hotel nor casa vacanza. Just a house. Never had problems.

Thanks - will that in mind. So confusing but I guess that's Italian red tape and process for you!

Hello Steve,I have finally talked to my Italian friends who run a B& B in Acqui Terme and am getting back to you. They confirmed the above comments in this forum conversation, stating in that 3 bedrooms (6 bed places) is the maximum to stay within the favorable B&B tax bracket; above that you get taxed differently. Everything is possible but your tax status will be defined on the size and set up of your structure. My friends advice is to get a local accountant who will be familiar with the Piemonte Tax law for B&B / small hotels, who can best advise you on planning a future business. I would recommended to find an English speaking one to make life easier for you at the minute – it must be possible to find one if you set your mind to it, and get the relevant Tax planning advice at the beginning of your business planning. By the way I am an Architect from the UK and living/working in Italy for many years. If you require an Architect I would be delighted to be of assistance, I am often in Piemonte and could possibly view a property that you are evaluating to give advice free of commitment. All the best and happy hunting, Conor

Cheers Conor - much appreciated! I will certainly keep your offer of services in mind.

Hi Steve,Just a thoughtHave a look at thishttp://lavillahotel.net/It is bigger than what you have in mind, an upmarket boutique hotel opened many years ago by a UK couple who found the abandoned building, bought it and renovated it. Now seems to be well established with an English speaking clientele, but certainly did not happen overnight and it has been a long road of trial and error to get to where they are now.Would be a bit cheeky but you could give them a call and see if they can share some stories, I am sure they have many stories that will be of interest – you can say that you are looking to open a b+b / hotel far from them in another part of Piemonte. All the best, Conor

Dear Sbthorn,
I own a B&B in Piedmont + I'm an architect.
Most information which was given to you is correct but ..there's a bit of confusion.
Feel free to contact me if you need any clarification,
Buona domenica
Elisabetta

Buonasera ElisabettaMany thanks for responding! I've been researching where I can but advice from someone already in the business would be most welcome!I'm trying now to clarify three main points:1. How many rooms can I have - this will be a full time business so not under the B&B "occasional" set-up. More like a hotel but not a hotel, if you know what I mean. 2. Categories - L'Affitacamere/B&B/Residence - any implication of each for what can be delivered? Tax implications?3. Food Service - I read a lot about not being able to provide anything other than pre-packaged food for breakfast, but my partner would like to be able to cook occasional meals for guests as we're both big italian foodies and love to cook. Can we do this? Any regulations we need to follow?Many thanks!Steve

Buongiorno Steve,
to answer your questions:

1. B&B: up to 3 bedrooms/6 guests;
Affittacamere: up to 6 bedrooms/12 guests;
Hotel: from 7 bedrooms up (if you have more than 7 bedrooms, it cannot be anything else but a hotel).

2. You mention "Residence" which is an additional type of activity. In order to call it Residence or Casa Vacanza, you need to have at least 3 apartments/houses without shared services. The apartments need to be equipped with their own kitchen and, of course, be furnished.

- B&B can only serve breakfast.
- Affittacamere can offer meals to its own guests. In order to do so, you need to request a specific approval by the sanitary service, in addition to the one for Affittacamere.

All kind of activities are subject to taxation (B&B included, in spite of what most people believe), what changes is the bookkeeping they require. Taxation cannot be defined a priori, it depends on your overall income.

3. Affittacamere can serve meals to its clients (not to external clients like a restaurant). The procedure to follow is specified here:
http://www.regione.piemonte.it/turismo/cms/strutture-ricettive/affittacamere.html
For food somministration in particular:
http://www.regione.piemonte.it/sanita/cms2/alimenti/notifica-imprese-alimentari

...Italians make things complicated, I know. It's even hard for us Italians to understand all requirements!

All the best!

Elisabetta

PS: In case you have enough land to be considered a farmer (agricoltore), you could create an agriturismo, which can have up to 25 beds, but that's a completely different story.

Dear Elisabette,I just came across your post from a couple of years ago - I hope you;re business continues to do well! I wonder if you can advise on the tax or where I can get advice on the tax for renting our a dependance/2nd house on the same land as your main house - for holiday use so 3-5 months of the year please.Grazie milleMark.