As we're in the process of negotiating on 2 ruined farmhouses in Le Marche, the new Piano Casa 2009 rules pertaining to possible expansion of the property volume are extremely interesting.
Hi againCould someone give me an idea as to what I should be paying in the present market for land in le marche (near force). Half of the land we are interested in is flat and currently used for arable crops and looks good quality.
If I'm purchasing a property from a foreign owner, does the transaction have to be done in Euro or could it be done in a currency more agreeable to the vendor and myself?
Ciao Tutti!We're searching for a ruined farmhouse to restore in Le Marche and are getting a bit frustrated with UK agents who seem to talk a good talk at first, but then complain that they are unable to find anything matching our criteria or that
Thanks for confirming what I suspected - ie that we should indeed be getting the plans absolutely right BEFORE we submit them to the comune, rather than assuming that things can be easily changed later on. It's not that we want to change anything, it's just we tend to be a revision ahead of the architect - so what happens is we draw up some plans, the architect then re-draws them to the local building code, we see that and then take a different design route, send it back to the architect for reworking - and so it goes on. At some point we actually need to get the permissions and start the project and this is what led to my query. I've done some commercial projects (UK) in the past where it has been vital to get the spec right before anyone starts on site as otherwise costs and timescales escalate out of control, and I wasn't expecting it to be any different in Italy to be honest - which is why I was a bit surprised by the Architects rather laid back view of the plans. I feel somewhat vindicated now! Thanks again B.
Quick note to thank you all for your replies. I've followed up a few PM's as well and may be in touch again in a couple of weeks once we've figured out better what on earth is going on. B
From the computometrico, I'd expect to award the business to the contractors hitting 25% - 30% off at present. But it really does all depend on local market conditions.
... we were in Marche (Val D'Aso and surroundings) a couple of weeks ago and it was a nightmare getting cash. 90% of the bank machines wouldn't work - despite having internet / international withdrawal menu options and being fully multi-lingual. It got so bad that by the 6th ATM, I rang the bank in the UK to find out what on earth was going on - they claimed that every ATM in Italy had now been updated and were somewhat surprised that it was a problem, but I suspect they only care about big cities. Ironically my bank forced me to change to Visa from Maestro last year and under Maestro, I had much better success with maybe 50% of ATM's working OK. The only bank in southern Marche that we found it possible to withdraw cash from was Carisap. So it may still be a problem in some areas! ( PS. To the site admins, you can't use this website to write comments on an iPad - it will be your rich text editor that is causing the problem I think. )
Ah ... THAT'S what SNC means - I saw that in a former deed of sale and wondered if it was pertinent. The funny thing is the catasto says "contrada xxxxx Piano: T-1" which is just a description of the fact that there is a ground and first floor! I've asked the agent and the italian consulate here as well (in my faltering italian, should be amusing to see what language they choose to respond in!) so will see what transpires. Thanks again brancusi
My partner makes a fabulous (biased opinion I guess!) Limoncello here in the UK using a vodka - but it's something like 93% ABV so far from your typical branded vodka. We get it from a little shop in Old Compton Street in Soho that sells a huge range of spirits and it's basically the strongest thing they sell. The first time I bought some I asked who on earth bought the stuff as it is plastered in so many warnings about causing instant death if consumed neat it is somewhat offputting - but apparently students love the stuff! Say no more ... So making it yourself is definitely the way to go if you ask me. The absolute key is making sure you minimise the "pith" of the lemon that sometimes creeps in if you don't peel the lemons with enough caution - basically ANY pith will add bitterness to the result and you need to aim for zero pith for the best Limoncello. And yes, keep it in the freezer. Oh and it also makes a great Aperitivo if mixed with a glass of Prosecco, but as my Mum found out this Christmas, 1 glass is definately enough! Hope you all had a great New Year ... brancusi
The donors have already lived 7 years past the donation, however that doesn't appear to be the risk in this case.There seem to be many possible scenarios that could cause a problem, but here is one.Imagine the 2 daughters fall out with each other and 1 falls out with the donors completely. Donors re-write will to leave all their estate to 1 daughter. Then, a week before the donors die, they win the lottery.1 daughter is delighted, she has just inherited millions. She gets the money and flees the country to Argentina.The other is less delighted, but being now estranged doesn't find out about this until several years later.She has obviously been deprived of her leggitima, but it seems that one option she has is to seek to reverse any donations in order to recoup some of her loss and this would put our restored house at risk. The actual nature of the scenario doesn't really matter, my point is just that it seems scenarios DO exist (my one could even be flawed) that put the property at risk and I can't get a clear answer. I wonder about the notaio in all of this as well because it seems that there is a Notarised document from the other daughter waiving her claim on the property and indemnifying our buyer and any subsequent person etc etc, but our lawyer says this document has no legal status as this right is not something she is able to waive.So whilst the estate agent is saying this is not a problem, and the notary is saying it is (probably) not a problem, our lawyer continues to mention it and it seems it is a real - but maybe small risk. Everything is of course fine as long as the family are all getting on with each other, but I have direct experience of family rifts that can arise seemingly out of nowhere and last for decades, so I am perhaps more switched on to the possibilities than some others may be.It seems to me that if everyone is saying the risk is small, it should be an insurable risk? This is the sort of thing an indemnity policy could be used for in the UK and for example when I bought my flat I needed one of those due to issues with planning conformance and this was duely raised again when I sold the flat and again, an indemnity policy was put in place to cover it.Thanks for the feedback so far ... the more the merrier!
> you have the advantage of not needing an english speaking architect as your italian is fluentIf only it were so!!! I've been fortunate to have studied at the Italian Cultural Institute in London with a great teacher so after a year I would say that I'm starting to get the hang of it - a little!! I don't think I would be confident enough to engage a non-english speaking Architect as when I don't understand something I tend to nod my head and say "si si", when actually this might be completely the wrong response!!! Give me another year and I might feel more confident linguistically ... but at present I'm assuming a bilingual architect.Wish us luck!!Brancusi
> I'm assuming that if it is really a ruin you DO need more than just help from a geometra Oh yes, it is a case of a new design and rebuild, there is almost nothing left although obviously we will have the constraints of the comune as to what we can and cannot do. > If you want a good geometra (non-English speaking), let me know. Mine was from Montefortino and> v good - though maybe a bit far from you. Could you drop me a PM with contact details? It's only about half an hour from where we are (if that) so could be a handy contact. > Given your avatar - do you have any Romanian connections? LOL ... more Irish than Romanian, but as it happens Brancusi is my favourite sculptor.Cheersbrancusi
Many thanks!My vague plan was to consider 2 systems feeding into each other. You seem to be able to get greywater recycling to full EU "recreational water" standards for a cost that doesn't seem too bad, well, assuming the power for it is solar ... and my idea was to have the rainwater collector feeding into that as well so that basically we could have a supply of clean (but not drinkable) water for showers, garden irrigation, washing machines, loos and so forth. The issue with storing rainwater seems to be that there is an EU standard that says 20 days is as much as you can do if you want to use it "recreationally" and of course my idea would be to collect vast quantities of it during the winter and then use it over the dryer summer. Another thought was to keep the rainwater oxygenated by moving it through a water feature so that it doesn't stagnate.Essentially because we'll have the luxury of doing a restoration (rebuild) from scratch, I'm looking at how green we can do it all without being mad ...Thanks for the link. I'll keep you posted when we begin (in about 2 years I suspect!!)brancusi
Comments posted
Thanks for confirming what I suspected - ie that we should indeed be getting the plans absolutely right BEFORE we submit them to the comune, rather than assuming that things can be easily changed later on. It's not that we want to change anything, it's just we tend to be a revision ahead of the architect - so what happens is we draw up some plans, the architect then re-draws them to the local building code, we see that and then take a different design route, send it back to the architect for reworking - and so it goes on. At some point we actually need to get the permissions and start the project and this is what led to my query. I've done some commercial projects (UK) in the past where it has been vital to get the spec right before anyone starts on site as otherwise costs and timescales escalate out of control, and I wasn't expecting it to be any different in Italy to be honest - which is why I was a bit surprised by the Architects rather laid back view of the plans. I feel somewhat vindicated now! Thanks again B.
Quick note to thank you all for your replies. I've followed up a few PM's as well and may be in touch again in a couple of weeks once we've figured out better what on earth is going on. B
From the computometrico, I'd expect to award the business to the contractors hitting 25% - 30% off at present. But it really does all depend on local market conditions.
... we were in Marche (Val D'Aso and surroundings) a couple of weeks ago and it was a nightmare getting cash. 90% of the bank machines wouldn't work - despite having internet / international withdrawal menu options and being fully multi-lingual. It got so bad that by the 6th ATM, I rang the bank in the UK to find out what on earth was going on - they claimed that every ATM in Italy had now been updated and were somewhat surprised that it was a problem, but I suspect they only care about big cities. Ironically my bank forced me to change to Visa from Maestro last year and under Maestro, I had much better success with maybe 50% of ATM's working OK. The only bank in southern Marche that we found it possible to withdraw cash from was Carisap. So it may still be a problem in some areas! ( PS. To the site admins, you can't use this website to write comments on an iPad - it will be your rich text editor that is causing the problem I think. )
Ah ... THAT'S what SNC means - I saw that in a former deed of sale and wondered if it was pertinent. The funny thing is the catasto says "contrada xxxxx Piano: T-1" which is just a description of the fact that there is a ground and first floor! I've asked the agent and the italian consulate here as well (in my faltering italian, should be amusing to see what language they choose to respond in!) so will see what transpires. Thanks again brancusi
My partner makes a fabulous (biased opinion I guess!) Limoncello here in the UK using a vodka - but it's something like 93% ABV so far from your typical branded vodka. We get it from a little shop in Old Compton Street in Soho that sells a huge range of spirits and it's basically the strongest thing they sell. The first time I bought some I asked who on earth bought the stuff as it is plastered in so many warnings about causing instant death if consumed neat it is somewhat offputting - but apparently students love the stuff! Say no more ... So making it yourself is definitely the way to go if you ask me. The absolute key is making sure you minimise the "pith" of the lemon that sometimes creeps in if you don't peel the lemons with enough caution - basically ANY pith will add bitterness to the result and you need to aim for zero pith for the best Limoncello. And yes, keep it in the freezer. Oh and it also makes a great Aperitivo if mixed with a glass of Prosecco, but as my Mum found out this Christmas, 1 glass is definately enough! Hope you all had a great New Year ... brancusi
The donors have already lived 7 years past the donation, however that doesn't appear to be the risk in this case.There seem to be many possible scenarios that could cause a problem, but here is one.Imagine the 2 daughters fall out with each other and 1 falls out with the donors completely. Donors re-write will to leave all their estate to 1 daughter. Then, a week before the donors die, they win the lottery.1 daughter is delighted, she has just inherited millions. She gets the money and flees the country to Argentina.The other is less delighted, but being now estranged doesn't find out about this until several years later.She has obviously been deprived of her leggitima, but it seems that one option she has is to seek to reverse any donations in order to recoup some of her loss and this would put our restored house at risk. The actual nature of the scenario doesn't really matter, my point is just that it seems scenarios DO exist (my one could even be flawed) that put the property at risk and I can't get a clear answer. I wonder about the notaio in all of this as well because it seems that there is a Notarised document from the other daughter waiving her claim on the property and indemnifying our buyer and any subsequent person etc etc, but our lawyer says this document has no legal status as this right is not something she is able to waive.So whilst the estate agent is saying this is not a problem, and the notary is saying it is (probably) not a problem, our lawyer continues to mention it and it seems it is a real - but maybe small risk. Everything is of course fine as long as the family are all getting on with each other, but I have direct experience of family rifts that can arise seemingly out of nowhere and last for decades, so I am perhaps more switched on to the possibilities than some others may be.It seems to me that if everyone is saying the risk is small, it should be an insurable risk? This is the sort of thing an indemnity policy could be used for in the UK and for example when I bought my flat I needed one of those due to issues with planning conformance and this was duely raised again when I sold the flat and again, an indemnity policy was put in place to cover it.Thanks for the feedback so far ... the more the merrier!
> you have the advantage of not needing an english speaking architect as your italian is fluentIf only it were so!!! I've been fortunate to have studied at the Italian Cultural Institute in London with a great teacher so after a year I would say that I'm starting to get the hang of it - a little!! I don't think I would be confident enough to engage a non-english speaking Architect as when I don't understand something I tend to nod my head and say "si si", when actually this might be completely the wrong response!!! Give me another year and I might feel more confident linguistically ... but at present I'm assuming a bilingual architect.Wish us luck!!Brancusi
> I'm assuming that if it is really a ruin you DO need more than just help from a geometra Oh yes, it is a case of a new design and rebuild, there is almost nothing left although obviously we will have the constraints of the comune as to what we can and cannot do. > If you want a good geometra (non-English speaking), let me know. Mine was from Montefortino and> v good - though maybe a bit far from you. Could you drop me a PM with contact details? It's only about half an hour from where we are (if that) so could be a handy contact. > Given your avatar - do you have any Romanian connections? LOL ... more Irish than Romanian, but as it happens Brancusi is my favourite sculptor.Cheersbrancusi
Many thanks!My vague plan was to consider 2 systems feeding into each other. You seem to be able to get greywater recycling to full EU "recreational water" standards for a cost that doesn't seem too bad, well, assuming the power for it is solar ... and my idea was to have the rainwater collector feeding into that as well so that basically we could have a supply of clean (but not drinkable) water for showers, garden irrigation, washing machines, loos and so forth. The issue with storing rainwater seems to be that there is an EU standard that says 20 days is as much as you can do if you want to use it "recreationally" and of course my idea would be to collect vast quantities of it during the winter and then use it over the dryer summer. Another thought was to keep the rainwater oxygenated by moving it through a water feature so that it doesn't stagnate.Essentially because we'll have the luxury of doing a restoration (rebuild) from scratch, I'm looking at how green we can do it all without being mad ...Thanks for the link. I'll keep you posted when we begin (in about 2 years I suspect!!)brancusi