The English text of the Proposal for this new Regulation has just been published. This will put to rest most of the dispute and conflict between different European laws on succession.
I have recieved this query which I am posting to start off a debate perhaps with people in similar situations:" I am resident in Italy as from April this year/wife becoming resident later this year.
This was a question from another member in another thread, I though it was worth starting a discussion on this point:"I understand if you are renting your property to a person who is elderly(or maybe there is no age limit) you cannot force them t
The 2005 Green Paper on Wills and Succession recommended that the conflicting succession rules in many European countries should be harmonised by a new EU Regulation.A Regulation is a European law which is directly applicable to all member states,
A British national resident in Italy can make the following forms of will: A holographic will (beware, make sure these are drafted properly and keep them SAFE) A Public will with a Notary public A secret will deposited with a Notary public OR An English form will, signed in the presence of two witnesses. Any of these forms will be valid in Italy whether they are written in Italian or English! RAM: Any will which you have already drafted will be perfectly valid. People who have wills which do not state the choice of English law will need to weigh up if they would be happy for Italian law to apply to their succession, as this will happen if their will is not changed. C
It doesnt matter what language the will is drawn up in, in fact it makes life easier for your heirs if it is drawn up in Italian, but I would only recommend that if you are sure about the meaning of what you write. What is important that your wishes are clear, the will is in a valid form, and for British citizens who want to guarantee the traditional rule that you leave everything to your spouse unless they predecease you by 30 days etc....that somewhere in that will you say " my succession shall be governed by English law"
Penny I am so happy to hear this news, especially that a certain person you were dealing with is now "irrelevant"! This was really a disgraceful ignorance of the rights of EC citizens. Hope you and family are well - all the best. Charlotte
As Ram says this is very significant for any person buying as "prima casa", thinking they will benefit from a tax reduction whereas in the long run they may pay more tax on their property abroad. The tax on overseas property will be 0,76% on the value of the property as stated in the purchase deed, or in the absence of this (not sure what that means - if you have lost the purchase deed?) on the market value, which could be far higher for British citizens given the rate UK house prices have risen in 20 years. To be declared and paid as from 2012 (for 2011). There is relief by way of credit if you have already paid property tax in the country where the property is, what tax would this be, council tax? Charlotte
Thank you for your comments yes I have just read them now I am back! I have never seen snow piled so high! The skiing at Roccaraso was great, just as good as going to the Dolomites for me, cheaper and nearer Rome! Very popular, great atmosphere especially with lots of kids skiing in fancy dress on Shrove Tuesday. Fabulous scenery and views. Castel di Sangro was disappointing, a miserable town I thought, but we were staying just outside in a full-on ski hotel so we hardly explored it, just happy to stay in the warm and the kids loved the animazione and we loved the three course dinners. Next time I would go for Pescocostanza though, that is a charming little town. The area is completely spectacular, and on the way back to Rome we went via Lago di Barrea, completely frozen over, took hundreds of pics of it. Charlotte
The schools in Rome were announced as closing for 2 days....then we waited and waited for snow thinking it was a big exaggeration, as here near the coast in Ostia the temperature seemed to be a bit warmer, but we then saw pictures of the snow-covered Colosseum and this morning we woke up to a white garden!! Never seen that in 10 years of living here!
Dear David, If you could pm me or write to me at c.oliver@studiopaoletti.com I can recommend an excellent English speaking accountant in Rome. She has worked for years with one of the big names and is setting up her own consultancy business for private clients (mainly overseas clients with tax issues in Italy or Italians with tax issues abroad.) I could put you in contact with her directly to get an estimate of costs. She is quite a rare find as she is experienced in dealing with this sort of issue. Charlotte
Hi I can highly recommend an accountant based in Rome at Ernst and Young who specialises in this area, and is setting up her own independent consultancy. PM me if you would like further details Charlotte
Its just a broken record, a myth in my opinion that all Italians seemed to have learned from their grandmas without questioning and is passed around like a virus, after living in Italy for 10 years it has been reluctantly been ingrained in my mentality and when my children run outside in tshirts in December even if it is 18 degrees my instinct is to hurl myself after them screaming "you'll be off school with a febbre tomorrow"!!!!!!! Luckily common sense kicks in and I smile smugly to myself that I really dont believe that and I like the fact my kids are a bit English and just do what feels natural to them. If they do feel cold, they will come running back to the warm house or put on a light jacket. Some Italian mothers actually take hairdryers to childrens parties to dry sweaty heads before taking their delicate angels home! In a yoga class the other day in a closed room with 20 students I asked to open the door a little, but there will be a "current" said one woman! Yes that would be air we need to breathe with I said!I could go on and on............. Charlotte
Yes the father could make a will leaving the Italian property to his son. By law the mother could if she chose to challenge this after his death, she has an absolute right to a share in Italian law. BUt if she did not challenge it the succession would follow the will and the proeprty transferred into the name of the son. If there was any concern from the son that she might want to claim her share up to 10 years after the death of the father, the wife could sign a public deed in Italy stating that she fully accepts the terms of the will and renounces her right to challenge it.
Comments posted
A British national resident in Italy can make the following forms of will: A holographic will (beware, make sure these are drafted properly and keep them SAFE) A Public will with a Notary public A secret will deposited with a Notary public OR An English form will, signed in the presence of two witnesses. Any of these forms will be valid in Italy whether they are written in Italian or English! RAM: Any will which you have already drafted will be perfectly valid. People who have wills which do not state the choice of English law will need to weigh up if they would be happy for Italian law to apply to their succession, as this will happen if their will is not changed. C
It doesnt matter what language the will is drawn up in, in fact it makes life easier for your heirs if it is drawn up in Italian, but I would only recommend that if you are sure about the meaning of what you write. What is important that your wishes are clear, the will is in a valid form, and for British citizens who want to guarantee the traditional rule that you leave everything to your spouse unless they predecease you by 30 days etc....that somewhere in that will you say " my succession shall be governed by English law"
Penny I am so happy to hear this news, especially that a certain person you were dealing with is now "irrelevant"! This was really a disgraceful ignorance of the rights of EC citizens. Hope you and family are well - all the best. Charlotte
As Ram says this is very significant for any person buying as "prima casa", thinking they will benefit from a tax reduction whereas in the long run they may pay more tax on their property abroad. The tax on overseas property will be 0,76% on the value of the property as stated in the purchase deed, or in the absence of this (not sure what that means - if you have lost the purchase deed?) on the market value, which could be far higher for British citizens given the rate UK house prices have risen in 20 years. To be declared and paid as from 2012 (for 2011). There is relief by way of credit if you have already paid property tax in the country where the property is, what tax would this be, council tax? Charlotte
Thank you for your comments yes I have just read them now I am back! I have never seen snow piled so high! The skiing at Roccaraso was great, just as good as going to the Dolomites for me, cheaper and nearer Rome! Very popular, great atmosphere especially with lots of kids skiing in fancy dress on Shrove Tuesday. Fabulous scenery and views. Castel di Sangro was disappointing, a miserable town I thought, but we were staying just outside in a full-on ski hotel so we hardly explored it, just happy to stay in the warm and the kids loved the animazione and we loved the three course dinners. Next time I would go for Pescocostanza though, that is a charming little town. The area is completely spectacular, and on the way back to Rome we went via Lago di Barrea, completely frozen over, took hundreds of pics of it. Charlotte
The schools in Rome were announced as closing for 2 days....then we waited and waited for snow thinking it was a big exaggeration, as here near the coast in Ostia the temperature seemed to be a bit warmer, but we then saw pictures of the snow-covered Colosseum and this morning we woke up to a white garden!! Never seen that in 10 years of living here!
Dear David, If you could pm me or write to me at c.oliver@studiopaoletti.com I can recommend an excellent English speaking accountant in Rome. She has worked for years with one of the big names and is setting up her own consultancy business for private clients (mainly overseas clients with tax issues in Italy or Italians with tax issues abroad.) I could put you in contact with her directly to get an estimate of costs. She is quite a rare find as she is experienced in dealing with this sort of issue. Charlotte
Hi I can highly recommend an accountant based in Rome at Ernst and Young who specialises in this area, and is setting up her own independent consultancy. PM me if you would like further details Charlotte
Its just a broken record, a myth in my opinion that all Italians seemed to have learned from their grandmas without questioning and is passed around like a virus, after living in Italy for 10 years it has been reluctantly been ingrained in my mentality and when my children run outside in tshirts in December even if it is 18 degrees my instinct is to hurl myself after them screaming "you'll be off school with a febbre tomorrow"!!!!!!! Luckily common sense kicks in and I smile smugly to myself that I really dont believe that and I like the fact my kids are a bit English and just do what feels natural to them. If they do feel cold, they will come running back to the warm house or put on a light jacket. Some Italian mothers actually take hairdryers to childrens parties to dry sweaty heads before taking their delicate angels home! In a yoga class the other day in a closed room with 20 students I asked to open the door a little, but there will be a "current" said one woman! Yes that would be air we need to breathe with I said!I could go on and on............. Charlotte
Yes the father could make a will leaving the Italian property to his son. By law the mother could if she chose to challenge this after his death, she has an absolute right to a share in Italian law. BUt if she did not challenge it the succession would follow the will and the proeprty transferred into the name of the son. If there was any concern from the son that she might want to claim her share up to 10 years after the death of the father, the wife could sign a public deed in Italy stating that she fully accepts the terms of the will and renounces her right to challenge it.