pamela's activity

Thanks again Fillide - very helpful (as always!) 

In fact it is German friends of ours who are asking for permission for work they want done and we are helping them as they speak very little Italian. They are querying a bill from a geometra that have already employed. I asked this question as I was under the impression that there is a scale of standard charges for work that could be found, as Fillide points me to (thanks Fillide!) The Germans are suspicious that it costing them more than it should but I am not sure this is the case at all!  

Thanks Ram and Sebastiano! In the end the builder gave them a fattura - with a smile and laugh - as this is what his ragioniere said was needed. Not sure why the builder and I had four quite heated discussions on the subject (on behalf of the Germans who don't speak Italian) although I do suspect that 'arguing' is a form of 'bonding' here.  

Thanks Fillide for this clear explanation, especially since politics is such a major topic of conversation. I have lived in a few different countries and I find it always takes me a while to get my head around the politics of a country - especially the politicians. Italy seems especially difficult to understand... or is that just me?!

Thanks for your help Ram. 

Have deleted a comment which I posted here in error, but it seems I can't delete that I have posted at all... user error! Sorry. Have hopefully also managed to post correctly elsewhere. 

The appropriate rate to set is somewhere in the space between the worker who wants to earn a decent wage / as much as possible and the owner who wants to pay as little as possible and still see it as a decent wage preferring not to see themselves as exploitative. It also depends if the cleaner sees themselves as doing a favour for someone or offering a professional service. I have been on both sides of this equation by the way... I think the responsibility of being on call as the local contact should the need arise is worth being paid for as well. If I am paid a 'retainer' of sorts to be available then I stay aware of this as regards when guests are around. If I am just paid to do something if the need arises, well, if I am not around - so be it, I will get there when I can. So if there is a pipe which has sprung a leak and water is flooding down the stairs (a true life example) but I am 100 km away doing something else... sorry.  There is straightforward cleaning which could be worth 10 - 15 euros an hour including travel (although I think this is pretty low as a fee) and then there is taking responsibility as an agent of the owner which involves troubleshooting, local knowledge and language skills. I agree with Fillide about the laundry service - they are set up to do biancheria quickly and efficiently. Of course if the nearest place is 50 kms away then this is a problem. But doing laundry takes a long time / costs money for electricity and water if you are doing it yourself as a cleaner and is dependent upon weather for drying.  If a house is being rented out as a holiday house then people expect it to be presented at a very good standard - beyond just your own lived in home, unless advertised as funky or basic or whatever. Good presentation costs money and takes thought and care. Keeping your 'workers' onside by being generous in your payments and consideration is a better philosophy I reckon. 

Thanks for all these ideas - I will pass the information on to my friend, in an appropriate way. I think as well that if she could contact support groups of some sort, even if online rather than face to face meetings, this could be of benefit. In fact online or email may be good as she lives in a small place and already feels like everybody knows her business and is looking at her and judging her for not comporting herself in the "right" way, family included. A sobering reality concerning the flipside of the "inclusiveness" of Italian village life. I am a support to her partly because I am a straniera. 

Thanks everybody for your thoughts and thanks Esme for the link. Indeed I agree 'sfogarsi' is of enormous value - talking, crying, raging, despairing with others. She is doing this with me and others. However there has also been a lot of research done about the stages of mourning. In my professional career in the UK I have seen that knowing how grief progresses offers comfort and a sort of map to people living with bereavement. I would like to offer my friend suggestions for something she can read in Italian - and she has welcomed this idea. As well as being with people there are many hours that she spends on her own - it is impossible to be with people all the time - and indeed she is already finding some of the comfort offered is full of directive advice that is confusing and angering. She feels sometimes like she is 'going crazy', which is a common sentiment when emotional experiences are extreme and new. And so having something she can read, perhaps at 2am when she has woken suddenly, could offer comfort. I have done some online searching for Italian books, but wondered if anybody had direct experience of a useful book. Thanks again

Hi Filide, I don't know you but I always think your posts are fantastic! I think it would be a terrible shame if you left the forum and I personally hope you like the "holiday" idea that Angie and Robert have put forward... Whatever you decide, best wishes to you and thanks for all the help you have offered on this forum over the time you have been involved. As an old song had it "may the long time sun shine upon you..." Pamela